2024 Training Camp thread

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Interesting to hear the contrast between Coach Billups and Danny Hurley. Of course, we have been told by others that coaching doesn't make any difference anyway.

 
THE HCP said:
You think this new white dude would get us more on the trade market than Ant!!!??? Bro?
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that 'white dude' was just traded for Malcolm Brogdon plus TWO first round picks. There is no way that Ant would get traded for a return like that

last season, among 'qualified' NBA players, Simons ranked:

PER: 87th out of 185
TS%: 126th out of 193
3ptFG%: 65th out of 160
winshare/48: 145th out of 185
BPM: 96th out of 185

he's a little above average as a player. Meaning his presence doesn't help the Blazers, and his absence wouldn't hurt
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Interesting to hear the contrast between Coach Billups and Danny Hurley. Of course, we have been told by others that coaching doesn't make any difference anyway.

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Casey spends a good ten minutes in his latest video trying to defend Chauncey about this.
 
wizenheimer said:
that 'white dude' was just traded for Malcolm Brogdon plus TWO first round picks. There is no way that Ant would get traded for a return like that

last season, among 'qualified' NBA players, Simons ranked:

PER: 87th out of 185
TS%: 126th out of 193
3ptFG%: 65th out of 160
winshare/48: 145th out of 185
BPM: 96th out of 185

he's a little above average as a player. Meaning his presence doesn't help the Blazers, and his absence wouldn't hurt
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Look I agree he is not the best player on the team, but these analytics are useless IMO because most tend to be dependent on one's teammates.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
but these analytics are useless IMO because most tend to be dependent on one's teammates.
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How do you figure that? If that was the case, then wouldn't all the players on the team have similar metrics?

PER -> Very individualized and heavily skewed to offensive production
TS% -> Only 1 player impacts this metric
3ptFG% -> Only 1 player impacts this metric
winshare/48 -> I can see the argument for teammate's influence on this stat, but basketball is a TEAM game - and it's about how well you fit within the TEAM concept. This stat helps measure that.
BPM -> See response to WS/48
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
How do you figure that? If that was the case, then wouldn't all the players on the team have similar metrics?

PER -> Very individualized and heavily skewed to offensive production
TS% -> Only 1 player impacts this metric
3ptFG% -> Only 1 player impacts this metric
winshare/48 -> I can see the argument for teammate's influence on this stat, but basketball is a TEAM game - and it's about how well you fit within the TEAM concept. This stat helps measure that.
BPM -> See response to WS/48
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OK let's look at 3pt shooting. If you are in a line up with 4 good players, don't you think that player will have more open shots as opposed to someone trying to manufacture points because few others can? The guy shot 43% in 20-21.

Completely agree that basketball is a team game and it is all about how well you fit within the team concept. But the Blazers used a lot of different lineups (some who were Gleauge players) They have intentionally tanked for part of the last 3 years. If you are comparing him to players throughout the league, how is win share even remotely relevant?

Again I am not saying he is our best player. I am not even saying he should start. But he is the best 3-level scorer on the team.
 
Mediocre Man said:
He’s exactly like him defensively
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Completely disagree. I've never seen Ant get low and eat a guy up defensively, take the rock, or even really force an incredibly tough shot. Dame does that in critical situations.

And Dame gets twice as many rebounds, which is part of good defense.

I get the Dame hate. People got their feelings hurt, whatever. And he's not a good defender. But he's much better at basically everything than Ant.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Completely disagree. I've never seen Ant get low and eat a guy up defensively, take the rock, or even really force an incredibly tough shot. Dame does that in critical situations.

And Dame gets twice as many rebounds, which is part of good defense.

I get the Dame hate. People got their feelings hurt, whatever. And he's not a good defender. But he's much better at basically everything than Ant.
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Also, Dame is surprisingly good in the post against bigger players when he decides to play defense (not always).

Dame is certainly a better defender than Ant. I am not going to call him a good defender, but he can actually be decent when he tries (which was not that often, for a good reason, in Portland).
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Look I agree he is not the best player on the team, but these analytics are useless IMO because most tend to be dependent on one's teammates.
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you can make that argument for winshare/48 and BPM. Not for any of the efficiency stats. Personally, I don't believe it's a very strong argument because those stats have been normalized:

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the league average winshare/48 is .100. Ant's career mark is only .051. And his best mark was .078 on the 2020-21 Blazers that went 42-30. So, even on a 'solid' playoff team, Ant, in his 3rd season, couldn't come close to the league average. As for his BPM, his career mark is -1.5. Last season, in Ant's best season, he barely climbed into positive territory with a 0.2 mark

I know you really like Ant and want him to be a Blazer long-term.Obviously I don't and I'm not alone. Again, Ant is probably a bit above average as a player. He's probably below average among NBA starters. Now, that is just an 'informed' guess. But part of that 'informed' is the reality there are two ends of the floor and on one of those ends, he's a disaster
 

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PtldPlatypus said:
Not a whole lot of optimism or positivity there regarding Ant's trade value.
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Bro, this I what I’m talking about when I said Ant\Grant and in this present case Ant mainly is going into every thread and it’s mainly the same peeps repeating the same thing and it’s old and tiresome now by many.

can we just make this thread about training camp gezz, is that hard to ask for?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Completely disagree. I've never seen Ant get low and eat a guy up defensively, take the rock, or even really force an incredibly tough shot. Dame does that in critical situations.

And Dame gets twice as many rebounds, which is part of good defense.

I get the Dame hate. People got their feelings hurt, whatever. And he's not a good defender. But he's much better at basically everything than Ant.
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True. Feelings not hurt about Dame. We weren’t winning with him.
 
sheed30 said:
Bro, this I what I’m talking about when I said Ant\Grant and in this present case Ant mainly is going into every thread and it’s mainly the same peeps repeating the same thing and it’s old and tiresome now by many.
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lol...you say the same things in thread after thread. And while other posters are criticizing Simons, you spend a lot of time criticizing the people who are criticizing Simons

pot, meet kettle
 
wizenheimer said:
lol...you say the same things in thread after thread. And while other posters are criticizing Simons, you spend a lot of time criticizing the people who are criticizing Simons

pot, meet kettle
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That shit got old a while back bro, how long you guys going to keep repeating yourself over and over before you get fed up? Haven’t you seen many other posters are fed up too by now?

And secondly, I was debunking a lot of this crap guys were throwing out like Ant’s usage was taking away from Scoot and Sharpe with facts and your little “stats” you like to post to back up your arguments are a joke imo.

you can go back to running in circles over and over, it was made clear that Ant/Grant talks wouldn’t spill into other threads by a Mod, but here we are talking about this stuff again in a training camp thread that hasn’t nothing to do with what you guys are talking about with Ant and Grant
 
wizenheimer said:
He's probably below average among NBA starters. Now, that is just an 'informed' guess. But part of that 'informed' is the reality there are two ends of the floor and on one of those ends, he's a disaster
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As you know I prefer if he comes off the bench. But that is an entirely different topic because it is more about the cap IMO.

I have seen Ant play D on occasion so I see no reason why he can't improve. He looks to have gotten stronger every year, now weighing in at 195 which is only 5 pounds lighter than Sharpe and Thybulle. Good length for his size (6'9" + wing span) and is a solid athlete. (Yes I know he lacks the defensive instincts of Tisse) They brought in some defensive-minded assistant coaches. They need to earn their money.

Why do I like him so much? When the game is on the line, he is way above average among starters in getting you a basket.
One of the top 3-level scorers the Blazers have had in a while. He has so many different shots he can make. Dame was the master of the clutch 3 and he was willing to attack the basket to draw a foul. But Simons is right behind him with his midrange pull-up, the floater, the hook shot, the 3. Who else on the team can do that? Hopefully Shae at some point.
 
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Worst thing for Ant's defense was playing behind CJ and Dame for his first several years. They are both horrible defenders.
Ant is about as one-dimensional as there is. He is a scorer and that's it. The reason Ant is not valued more is the same reason as Jamal Crawford, all they can do is score. Period. No defense, no rebounding, no playmaking or passing, no leadership whether vocally or in actions, no killer instinct.
The best role for Ant is coming off the bench next to a taller, unselfish PG on a team where he has the green light all the time, with good defenders surrounding him.
The best player on a team has to have more than one elite level attribute and Ant doesn't. I think the only reason Ant could be considered that guy is because nobody else on this team is either.
 
sheed30 said:
That shit got old a while back bro, how long you guys going to keep repeating yourself over and over before you get fed up? Haven’t you seen many other posters are fed up too by now?

And secondly, I was debunking a lot of this crap guys were throwing out like Ant’s usage was taking away from Scoot and Sharpe with facts and your little “stats” you like to post to back up your arguments are a joke imo.

you can go back to running in circles over and over, it was made clear that Ant/Grant talks wouldn’t spill into other threads by a Mod, but here we are talking about this stuff again in a training camp thread that hasn’t nothing to do with what you guys are talking about with Ant and Grant
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lol...you didn't "debunk" anything

this forum is about the Blazers. This thread is about the Blazers training camp. Ant/Grant are Blazers; they participated in the training camp press conference; they will be there for training camp. There have been rumors about them being shopped, especially Grant. Talking about Ant/Grant is definitely on topic, whether you like it or not. Talking about their potential return from a trade is on topic. Talking about their strengths and weaknesses is on topic. Talking about their skills and flaws is on topic.

You don't have to participate in all of the discussions a thread like this will generate. And you're capable of putting posters on ignore if what they say bugs you
 
BIG Q said:
I suspect you are correct in saying Ant's best role is coming off the bench. But ego is a huge part of professional sports. Ant's ego will not allow him to come off the bench in the city he was drafted in. It is a demotion and it is easier on the ego to be traded or signed to a new city, compete for a starting spot, come up short and then accept a bench role. Ego is what I was talking about last night in the KAT thread. He was the man in Minny for all those seasons, but now they want to turn it over to their Ant. They know his ego won't allow that so they moved him and got a pretty fair deal.
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I don’t understand that thinking. They play different positions. They want help in order to win. The Lakers didn’t trade Kareem after drafting Magic. Wade didn’t complain about LeBron coming to Miami. He wanted it.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Interesting to hear the contrast between Coach Billups and Danny Hurley. Of course, we have been told by others that coaching doesn't make any difference anyway.

Click to expand...

Hurley holds intense practices and wins rings.
Billups holds easy practices and wins nothing.
 
KingSpeed said:
I don’t understand that thinking. They play different positions. They want help in order to win. The Lakers didn’t trade Kareem after drafting Magic. Wade didn’t complain about LeBron coming to Miami. He wanted it.
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Which is what differentiates those players from others, making them championship winners and HOF’ers. KAT nor Simons will sniff either , IMO.
 
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