Game Thread 4/29/17 Game 2 New York Rangers vs Ottawa Senators

[Stepupstepan]

I actually enjoyed that miracle run to the finals. I thank Marty St.Louis for that run. The unexpected aspect of it was the best thing about it. The complaining was because they stunk really badly for the first half of the season. Remember that west coast trip where they lost every single game like 7 to 1 or something.

 

[Messiah717]

I actually enjoyed that miracle run to the finals. I thank Marty St.Louis for that run. The unexpected aspect of it was the best thing about it. The complaining was because they stunk really badly for the first half of the season. Remember that west coast trip where they lost every single game like 7 to 1 or something.

They have been an overacheiving team anchored by a great goalie since the 2012 run. That club had no business losing to NJ but also shouldn't of went seven in the first two rounds. The Kings would've whipped them that year also.

 

[kreidertime]

Ottawa plays like the Rangers used to play. When the entire team actually cared. Beating teams and winning games they aren't supposed to. Problem on this team is what Pierre said. They players are coddled by the organization. There have to be some players that absolutely need to be shipped out at the end of the year. The difference in effort from Skjei, McDonagh, Zucc and Fast compared to others is unbelievable.

 

[RangersFan]

To me the Rangers went from over achievers to under achievers during this 6 post-seasons run.

2012 came out of nowhere as the Rangers hadn't done squat in forever. And then they lost to a Devs team they clearly should have beaten. But overall that was an overachieving year.
2013 was about right.
2014 was over achieving for sure to make the SCF.
2015 we were the best team in the regular season. We won game 1 against TB. Had games 5 & 7 in our building where we didn't show up. That to me was an under achieving run.
2016 was about right given the way we played the 2nd half of the season, and simply how dominant the Pens had become.
2017 is weird if we lose to Ottawa. No one expected us to be as good as we were in the regular season. Most picked us to lose to Montreal. So to me up until the Sens series this season has absolutely been over achieving. BUT if we fall to the Sens, that is a huge letdown and terrible way to end the season. This round is way under achieving to me.

I don't care what anyone tells me, the Rangers are a much more complete team than the Sens and absolutely should have won this series. By all accounts the Rangers played two pretty terrible games in Ottawa, yet somehow still only lost 2-1 on a late goal in game 1, and 6-5 in double OT blowing multiple two goal leads. I have zero doubt we are the better team in this series, and you know what...it doesn't mean sh*t because we are down 2-0 and facing 2 must win home games to get back into the series.

This will be a really tough ending to what has been an over achieving season until this series. Mentally I had already put us in the ECF with this being a series we never should have lost if we do. If we lost to the Pens badly in the ECF you live with it because we are simply not as good, but this is a series we have no business losing I don't believe.

I also think kreider is onto something. The Sens play their butts off. Even Anderson, who was almost as bad as Hank was yesterday, battled through it and made some clutch saves in OT. That whole team plays hard and buys in. We don't have that anymore as you see a handful of forwards and a couple of dmen playing disinterested hockey. Credit to the Sens for that.

And also credit to the Sens and Boucher for using the underdog rallying cry perfectly. Everyone did pick the Rangers to win this series, and he had his team crazy to beat the big bad Rangers who no one gives them a shot against. Smart coaching and motivation there. No doubt they have appeared to have wanted it more than us through 2 games, and yet 2-1 on a late goal and 6-5 in double OT are the results. Once again...we are the better team...and it don't mean a thing right now.

 

[RangersFan]

Agree 100% on what needs to happen this summer kreider. Last summer I don't get on Gorton as he was in a much tougher position to really make bigger changes. This summer that is not the case. We have a lot more flexibility this summer. It is absolutely time to start breaking up this core and make some bigger moves to reopen the window with a new/different mix. The window for this core is closed I believe. Which is also why I am kind of extra sad right now. This core has done a lot for the Rangers the past 6 years.

The Girardi buyout (or deal to LV where we agree to give them something) MUST happen. The guy has played well in these playoffs. He has been a warrior here, but there is no scenario where he is on this team next season. He must be gone, and if not it is a huge knock on Gorton out of the gate. I guess the ONLY possible way Girardi can be back is if Staal is gone (very unlikely to me). 1 of those 2 absolutely needs to be off this team next season...and Girardi is by far the more likely one I think.

Nash is interesting. I can see dealing him no doubt. I can also see us keeping him and letting his 7.8 mil cap hit expire next summer, right in time to resign a bunch of our own kids. So I am fine either way on Nash. And then worst case if we are struggling next season (I don't see that right now) we can flip him at the DL.

Stepan, Hayes, Miller even Kreider all should be available in the right deals. I said it last night, to me only McDonagh and Skjei are untouchable. Everyone else should be available, and I would even say I'd make it a priority to deal Stepan before his NTC kicks in (unless no other team will touch him with that NTC starting this summer). I will say this though, that dude is not a C. He needs to be on LW if he is back. He is a joke on face-offs, and enough is enough. With his skillset I am not sure he would excel on the wing though.

So we still have games to play here, hopefully we can overcome the crushing mental gut punch we took yesterday and win game 3 and make game 4 huge, but if we don't Gorton has got to make bigger changes this summer. It is a must or else I think most of us will be very down on Gorton. It is time now to change the core, and he can do it this summer unlike last summer.

 

[RangersFan]

SEASON SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT ACTUAL COST SAVINGS BUYOUT CAP HIT

2017-18 $4,000,000 $5,500,000 $1,111,111 $2,888,889 $2,611,111

2018-19 $3,000,000 $5,500,000 $1,111,111 $1,888,889 $3,611,111

2019-20 $3,000,000 $5,500,000 $1,111,111 $1,888,889 $3,611,111

2020-21 $0 $0 $1,111,111 -$1,111,111 $1,111,111

2021-22 $0 $0 $1,111,111 -$1,111,111 $1,111,111

2022-23 $0 $0 $1,111,111 -$1,111,111 $1,111,111

 

[RangersFan]

They make these buyouts tough man.

Girardi has 3 seasons left on his deal after this season. If we buy him out this summer, we'd have 3 extra seasons with a 1.1 mill cap charge (so for the next 6 years Girardi would stay on our cap).

Next year we'd save nearly 3 mill against the cap (2.888 mill). The following 2 seasons we'd only save just under 2 mill against the cap (1.888). Then have 3 extra seasons of 1.1 mill against the cap.

When you really look at those #'s, the buyout isn't appealing. Okay you save 2.888 next season, which is a decent number but not huge. Then you have two seasons where you only save 1.888 mill, which really isn't that much. And for what we gain we'd still have 1.1 of dead money for 3 extra seasons.

That is not ideal. I almost say Gorton needs to deal a decent pick or prospect with Girardi to move him. He has a Modified NTC, NMC this summer.

CLAUSE DETAILS: Starting 2017-18, Player specifies 15 teams that he cannot be traded to on July 1 2017, updates list each following July 1. If he does not specify 15 teams, can be traded to any team.

So we have to protect him in the expansion draft, that is a must, same with Staal. But on July 1st he selects 15 teams he cannot be traded to. The rest of the league we can deal him to.

I really wonder if there is a way Gorton and Girardi can sit down prior to the draft and come to some agreement where he can be dealt or even exposed to LV. Because when you look at those buyout #'s it really isn't appealing. I think you have to do it, but we really don't gain a ton by doing it.

 

[kreidertime]

If the Rangers can get back a really talented, right handed defenseman in a Stepan deal, you are looking at a fabulous top 5 with McDonagh, Skjei, Graves, Smith and that player. Plug in a sixth guy. Maybe Zborovskiy. Figure they will sign Smith. I would not give up Miller. I'm not sure why he has sucked so bad this playoffs. His game is built for the playoffs. I also would move him back to center after a Stepan deal. There was a time where he was better on wing but I think now he's ready to go back to center. Hayes I definitely trade. Stepan, Hayes and Nash I move. No complaints with Nash this season but not worth the risk at his age to lose for nothing. Then I protect Lindberg. To me they can't lose Lindberg. He's going to be much better offensively in the future and he can be elite on draws. Hayes might actually turn into a good faceoff guy with his size but he doesn't fit the style of this team. Stepan has been 40% on draws in the playoffs. He f'n sucks and I've grown tired of his inconsistent play. At least Kreider when he stinks still parks his ass in front of the goalie all game.

 

[Ranger71]

I think Bereglazov on D is someone they feel is almost NHL ready and could be a guy who is here awhile. In the draft they need to start adding power forward types.

 

[RangersFan]

Right now I think we may be in a Shatty or Smith situation. Hard to think we'll sign both, so it could be a choice between the two. I'd prefer Shatty since he is a R shot and can QB the PP, but it does all come down to money of course. Either way you have a nice base 3 with McDonagh, Skjei and Smith or Shatty. If Graves pans out that is a nice top 4 to build around. And you have to figure Girardi or Staal takes a spot also (cannot be both). That is not a bad D with Staal on the 3rd pair and a base of McDonagh, Skjei and Shatty.

As for Stepan, I really think you have to deal him unless his value is nothing due to his contract. But it is unlikely they all go. Maybe it is Girardi and Stepan gone. Shatty added. And we'll see what we get for Stepan. I think Nash is back for his final season, unless we can get some good value for him.

I think we can reshape quickly if you believe we can sign Shatty because we'd have a nice base 3 dmen and we have youth upfront right now. So we can set ourselves up for another window this summer. All starts with Shatty signed (rather have him than Smith) and Girardi gone. From there we build further and decide on Stepan and Nash.

 

[RangersFan]

I'll tell you though, the Girardi and Stepan decisions will be very interesting to watch this summer. The biggest decisions this summer (along with signing Shatty).

We know the organization loves Stepan, so not sure if they will have the balls to move him. Girardi will be gone, but how. Those buyout numbers are not friendly.

And I agree with you kreider, I do not want to lose Lindberg. He will be a solid 3rd or 4th line C for years at a good rate also. I don't want to lose him. Hopefully Gorton can find a way to keep him.

 

[Disturbed]

It's a big reset if we lose this series and winning this series doesn't look good. However let's save the change discussions for after they get eliminated.

As bad as these games were there are a lot of reasons I don't think they are dead yet:

1. The Senators are not that good. They are a 2 line team with an absolute stud on defense (best in NHL and it's not close). The Sens are playing over their head and to me there are chinks in their armor that were getting exposed even though they won.

2. Their entire offense runs through Karlsson and he's hurting. McD is pounding him and they need to keep hitting him. Make this a long series for Karlsson and the Sens. Wear him down.

3. Anderson is starting to look like goalie he is. Streaky but not reliable to win consistently in playoffs. He looked terrible at times yesterday. Rangers are going to score goals at MSG.

4. Kreider and Stepan are showing signs of coming out of their slump. If Miller and Hayes do that we will be tough to beat. Huge If.

5. We are down 2-0 to a team who played 2 games in their building and they held the lead for a grand total of 4:15 in those 2 games. Think about that. We easily could be up 2-0 and if that were he case Ott would be in much more trouble than we are now.

I'm super frustrated w this team with AV with Hayes Miller Staal and Holden but I think they will win G3 and momentum can be a strange thing sometimes and remember we're not down 2-0 to a superior team. Ottawa needed a miracle 4 goal game by a 3rd liner to win which is crazy. I expect to win G3 and when that happens this thing looks a lot better.

 

[RangersFan]

I don't disagree with anything you wrote Disturbed. All sound logical stuff. I do believe we are the better team. And they have barely led at all through two games.

If we get game 3 yeah then we have a whole new series. I think that is the if though. What did yesterday do to this team mentally? What did it do for the Sens confidence? We cannot answer either of those questions until the puck drops for game 3.

If we can come together mentally and overcome the huge gut punch, yes we can get back to Ottawa 2-2, which is a must if we want to win this series. Big IF like you wrote. I do believe if we can find a way to win game 3 we'd have a good shot in game 4.

I would love to see us come out and win 4-1 or 5-2 in game 3. It can happen if we mentally overcome yesterday because we are better and at home we should have some emotion from the crowd.

 

[Disturbed]

Yep - 5-2 win sounds exactly what we need.

I also think Rangers get a break playing Tues instead of Monday. An extra day off could help them mentally prepare after a gut wrenching loss.

If Hank has another game like yesterday it won't matter though.

 

[mrmel29]

I still think we come back and win this in 6. As for after season trades not as high on shatty as a lot of people here. Would rather make a trade for trouba and include stepan in that deal. As for staal they need to sit down with him and let him know graves is playing every day next year and your options are agree to a trade and well trade you where you want to go (who gives a shit what we get back) or you'll be watching from the press box. I think he takes a deal in that scenario. My hope for girardi is that he retires while he can still walk and take a job in the ranger front office somewhere. The fact that lindberg played 5 minutes yesterday tells me AV not a fan and unfortunately will be exposed in the draft. AV needs to go after season also and I would bring in sutter unless gorton has an assistant in mind (say someone like the assistant who used to be here) thats about to win his 2nd straight cup. And yes, he has the horses there but so did the guy he replaced who wasn't getting shit down with those same horses.

 

[RangersFan]

Nashville held onto a two goal lead pretty well. Today has actually been a really crappy sports day. I have not been into any sports after yesterday. I am taking that loss harder than usual for a few reasons.

1. I really thought we'd win this series, so in my head I had us past Ottawa.
2. I know we are the better team and have no business being down 2-0.
3. The way we lost yesterday is epically bad. Just awful and ridiculous to blow a lead like that.
4. I see the end is near for this group, and it saddens me. A lot of good years recently, and it is maybe coming to an end with this core group.
5. Maybe seeing mortality from Hank. Say what you want about other players and the coaches, Hank has to hold that lead unless he had no shot on all the goals, and we know at least goals 1 & 6 were on him.

I really hope we win game 3 because I want to at least have one more really meaningful game with this group, which is what game 4 will be if we win game 3.

 

[RangersFan]

Brooks is spot on here...puzzling:


It should not have happened but it did.

Alain Vigneault should not have “lost” Brendan Smith in the third period of Saturday’s stunning second-guess feast of a Game 2, 6-5 double-overtime defeat in Ottawa. But the coach on Sunday admitted that’s just what happened.

“I was looking for certain matchups and sometimes within a game’s flow, certain players get lost for a couple of minutes and that’s what happened,” Vigneault said when asked why No. 42 had gotten so little time in the third period. “It wasn’t performance-related. Brendan played a good game with bite. It just happened that way.”

Again. It should not have happened. Smith, who has played with an edge throughout the playoffs and had sparred repeatedly with Kyle Turris to the Rangers’ advantage throughout Game 2, somehow was on the ice for just two shifts and a combined 35 seconds over the final 12:48 of the third period as the match slipped away in shocking fashion.

Vigneault did not specify the matchups he was seeking — or seeking to avoid — but it’s difficult to figure that eight games into the tournament the coach still regards the Smith-Brady Skjei pair as his weakest tandem and thus the one to shelter. It is more difficult to figure that Smith seems ensconced as the third right defenseman regardless of his work or the comparative work of top-four righties Dan Girardi and Nick Holden.

 

[RangersFan]

I have stayed away from getting on AV, and at the end of the day we had a two goal lead with 3 and change left, and if Hank does his job we win, but his decisions on D have been puzzling.

To me it is clear as day that the Staal/Holden pair is a mistake waiting to happen, yet he plays them more than Skjei/Smith and in bigger spots (Skjei and Smith are almost always 5th and 6th in mpg on D). Now it is true we don't know entirely what would happen if the S/S pair played more and against better players, maybe they would struggle worse, but I know I'd take the chance right now given how awful Staal and Holden have been.

Upfront I am still trying to figure out why Buch, and especially Lindberg, were benched and each only played 5 minutes and change despite the game going into double OT. The other 10 forwards had to be worn down. You cannot have two forwards play 5 minutes and change, if healthy, in a double OT game. And they didn't play much, if at all, after the 2nd period.

I would also guess it is pretty much a given that Glass is back in and Buch is out for game 3. That seems like the exact move not to make against a team like Ottawa. And I guess we'll see what he does with Klein or Holden.

I really don't want to get on AV, but his decisions sometimes are puzzling (he has made some good decisions as well).

 

[Disturbed]

Smith has been fantastic in the playoffs. McD, Skjei and him have been really good. Yet he plays 2:43 in 3rd. I didn't even see that or notice it, OMFG. That is inexcusable and he should be hammered on that after blowing 3 2 goal leads.

I agree that fucking Glass is coming in. So frustrating.

I still think they win Tues and Thurs and we're going to have a great G5

 

[kreidertime]

Wouldn't matter even if they won this series. Pitt is laying waste to people.

 

[mrmel29]

If crosby is gonna be out any time after that hit that changes this whole series now in favor of the caps.

 

[Messiah717]

Well Anaheim and Washington come through with much needed wins to avoid 0-3 deficits. I expect the Rangers to do the same.

 

[RangersFan]

Exactly what I was thinking 717. Will we be the only team to go down 0-3. The Ducks and Caps showed up big on the road to avoid huge season ending holes...will we show up at home to do the same.

 

[theProdigy223]

If Crosby is out for an extended period of time yet they find a way to get past the Caps, we would be squandering a HUGE opportunity here if we dont advance. But first things first...let's get a win tonight and make it a series again.

 

[Messiah717]

If Crosby is out for an extended period of time yet they find a way to get past the Caps, we would be squandering a HUGE opportunity here if we dont advance. But first things first...let's get a win tonight and make it a series again.

We don't know anything on Crosby officially but let say he's out. This is why you can never make broad predictions about the playoffs and say well nobody is beating such and such team anyway. Anyone can be hurt on any given night. Whether it's a goalie or the game's best player.

 

[theProdigy223]

We don't know anything on Crosby officially but let say he's out. This is why you can never make broad predictions about the playoffs and say well nobody is beating such and such team anyway. Anyone can be hurt on any given night. Whether it's a goalie or the game's best player.

Perfectly said.

 

[RangersFan]

Looks like same defense tonight, and Glass in for Buch.

• Jimmy Vesey, Derek Stepan, Rick Nash

• Chris Kreider, Mika Zibanejad, Mats Zuccarello

• Michael Grabner, Kevin Hayes, Jesper Fast

• Tanner Glass, Oscar Lindberg, JT Miller

I don't like these lines. The two wingers on the 3rd line were the 4th line wingers recently. Add those guys with a struggling Hayes, and that line doesn't really scare me. And the 4th line is kind of wasting Miller I think. He has done nothing to deserve a better role, but still doubt he comes out of it on that line.

We better hope like heck the first two lines step up tonight, because these lines take some of our balance away I think.

Who knows though. If we come out and play with emotion and stop the lazy mistakes and undisciplined play I have no doubt we'll win tonight. Not sure if we can do that though.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Would have liked to see Puempel or Pirri get some ice

 

[Messiah717]

Looks like same defense tonight, and Glass in for Buch.

• Jimmy Vesey, Derek Stepan, Rick Nash

• Chris Kreider, Mika Zibanejad, Mats Zuccarello

• Michael Grabner, Kevin Hayes, Jesper Fast

• Tanner Glass, Oscar Lindberg, JT Miller

I don't like these lines. The two wingers on the 3rd line were the 4th line wingers recently. Add those guys with a struggling Hayes, and that line doesn't really scare me. And the 4th line is kind of wasting Miller I think. He has done nothing to deserve a better role, but still doubt he comes out of it on that line.

We better hope like heck the first two lines step up tonight, because these lines take some of our balance away I think.

Who knows though. If we come out and play with emotion and stop the lazy mistakes and undisciplined play I have no doubt we'll win tonight. Not sure if we can do that though.

It's like any team in the playoffs. The first two lines have to produce or you just might as well forget it. The third line for example and the defense chipping in might help you one game but it's not going to get you through a series. Not unless you're Nashville with Josi, Ellis and Subban out there.

 

[NYR2009]

AV has lost his last marbles. Please fire this guy already. Bring in Sutter.