4 players who shouldn't be back (1 Viewer)

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blazerfan11 said:
Banton had more than one bad shooting night.
5-13 at Charlotte for 12 points, 5-19 for 12 points in Miami, 5-19 for 14 points against Denver, 6-20 for 16 points against NY, 7-20 for 18 points at Minnesota, 5-14 for 12 points against New Orleans.
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Check out the shooting of the Philly Miami game...the league is full of hot and cold shooters.
 
kjironman1 said:
Yeah you don’t get rid of Sharpe yet. Let’s see what next year brings.
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I agree with this view only based on my limited knowledge of Sharpe as a player and a person. I see him as potentially the Blazers best player next year, a guy with unlimited potential. I've also observed worts in his game, mostly poor ball handling that didn't seem to improve much from year 1 to 2. Posters seem to generally express that if they don't see it then it doesn't exist, but those in charge see lots of things that we don't. The work he puts in, how he interacts with others, how he handles various stresses in his life, we're not privy to that stuff. From all I know, dude could be a diva who teammates only tolerate.

While I hope not, management could be totally justified in looking to move him this offseason. If they re-up him, it will be an endorsement both of his potential and character off the court. I judge management not by throw away words (which is expected and the smart way to go to placate the masses) but by their actions.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
I agree with this view only based on my limited knowledge of Sharpe as a player and a person. I see him as potentially the Blazers best player next year, a guy with unlimited potential. I've also observed worts in his game, mostly poor ball handling that didn't seem to improve much from year 1 to 2. Posters seem to generally express that if they don't see it then it doesn't exist, but those in charge see lots of things that we don't. The work he puts in, how he interacts with others, how he handles various stresses in his life, we're not privy to that stuff. From all I know, dude could be a diva who teammates only tolerate.

While I hope not, management could be totally justified in looking to move him this offseason. If they re-up him, it will be an endorsement both of his potential and character off the court. I judge management not by throw away words (which is expected and the smart way to go to placate the masses) but by their actions.

STOMP
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The thing that sticks in my mind is that this team gave Meyers Leonard $40 million.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
next season if the Blazers want to accelerate the rebuild:
https://ripcityproject.com/posts/players-shouldnt-back-next-season-blazers-want-accelerate-rebuild

They hit the 4 that most in here have stated already.

If we can see it then you would hope the decision makers do?

NOTE: I don't want to dump any of these players. You have to get value. So no trade for the sake of trading. And I would actually be fine keeping 1 (as it is unlikely you find a great trade for all 4). But at minimum two need to go.
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Value is based on what other teams are willing to pay.

If you have to dump them, you dump them.

Garbage wins NEXT year are especially detrimental. If we keep Brogdon, Grant, etc and they get us a few more wins and cost us...

Cooper Flagg. Ace Bailey.

I'll be LIVID.

This better be TANK fuckin' CITY next year.

0-82. That's the goal.

Would also be nice to have a clear direction instead of this fence straddling garbage.
 
For me kind of no brainer

potential stars would take a lot for me to trade one of these players
1. Sharpe- for him to be effective he needs to be a go to guy or he’ll disappear
2 Scoot- showed enough to me to be a star, the game will continue to slow down with lots of playing time
3. Ayton those 2nd half of season numbers are pretty damn good. He seems to have found the fire that was only thing holding him back.
both have shown enough flashes to make me think they are only two on roster with star power

Like to keep players
Camara
Banton- like him off the bench size and ability to score

everyone else is expendable including this years pick
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Trade Shaedon, keep Simons.

Sharpe will be in a contract year, the Blazers will pay him based on potential vs on what he's actually done. That can severely limit us in our rebuilding

Simons, while not perfect, puts up solid stats. His 3pt shooting will help take pressure off of Scoot.

Having 2 players that can run the pick and roll will help Ayton and space the floor better.
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Hell no. I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired of having an undersized 2 guard that cant guard a chair.

Sharpe has superstar potential. Simons has 6th man of the year potential
 
kjironman1 said:
You mean untouchable I’m assuming.
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Chris Craig said:
Nobody should be touching the players. Inappropriate.
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Rastapopoulos said:
Here's a question: imagine you're picking players from our roster in order of "I want to keep them". What is that order? I'm trying to think who I'd pick first. It might be Jabari, although he was kind of a letdown this season. Sure can rebound like a motherfucker, though.
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Interesting post until the Jabari part. I'd probably rank as:

Sharpe
Scoot
Ayton
Ant
Camera
Grant
Brogdon
Rupert
Walker
Reath
Murray
Banton
Any others would be here and are irrelevant
RGIII (negative value)
Thybulle (negative value)
 
Ed O said:
So you don't find it at all problematic that he just... chose not to play basketball. For a year.

Of all the guys who have played in the NBA, almost none of them have decided to do that, and he did.

But you think that's not an issue? OK.

Whether it was injury or not, it's an issue given he just had another lost season where he was hurt. Or just chose not to play. Whatever you think, I guess, is what matters.
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He was playing high school ball and was only in Kentucky a few months. You make it sound like he was at Kentucky a whole year and didn't play. He practiced with the team which is probably more productive than the Thompson twins playing in the elite whatever league. So no I don't think that is a concern at all.

Not saying it guarantees his health long term or anything and yes he missed a lot of last year. More concerning to me is he didn't progress when he played last year as much as we hoped.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Interesting post until the Jabari part. I'd probably rank as:

Sharpe
Scoot
Ayton
Ant
Camara
Grant
Brogdon
Rupert
Walker
Reath
Murray
Banton
Any others would be here and are irrelevant
RGIII (negative value)
Thybulle (negative value)
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Probably need a way to grade these ranks as being 5th here is nothing like 5th on the 2000 Blazers. Would a rookie Dame/Roy etc be a 10. Rookie Lamarcus probably an 8. Then I'd rank;

10 -
9 -
8 -
7 Sharpe
6 -
5 Scoot
4 -
3.5 Ayton
3.3 Ant
3.0 Camera
2.5 Grant
2.0 Brogdon
1.5 Rupert
1.0 Walker
0.5 Reath
0.4 Murray
0.2 Banton
-1 Timelord
-2 Thybulle
 
Kind of interesting to try and add FRP;

10 -
9 - 2025 Blazers
8 - 2026-2030 Blazers
7 Sharpe
6 - 2024 Blazers, 2029 Bos, 2029 MIL
5 Scoot, 2030 MIL swap
4 - 2024 GSW, 2028 MIL swap
3.5 Ayton
3.3 Ant
3.0 Camera
2.5 Grant
2.0 Brogdon
1.5 Rupert
1.0 Walker
0.5 Reath
0.4 Murray
0.2 Banton
-1 Timelord
-2 Thybulle

The future year picks have soooo much variance as could swing from 2-10 by the lottery and later based on huge variance of actual player drafted.

Blazers utter lack of player talent just shows me they need to prioritize trading away all players for future draft equity, and gamble they hit a couple home runs.

Just building this roster with a conservative approach is destined to lead to mediocrity at best for a long time
 
riverman said:
He's way more consistent on both sides of the ball than Ant and rebounds. The guy had one bad shooting game for us...Ant had a few...Banton also plays all 4 qtrs on the court and Ant goes ISO in the 4th....I'll take Banton next to Scoot over Ant and next to Sharpe as well....purge the Olshey era once and for all. Ant doesn't want to be here from what I see in his body language. You want cap space...you can shed a lot of it with an Ant trade
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How's he more consistent on offense?

Ant is forced to go ISO more than anything. They don't run much structure offensively and multiple guys will willingly give him the ball because they cant create and need him to make something happen.
 
BonesJones said:
How's he more consistent on offense?

Ant is forced to go ISO more than anything. They don't run much structure offensively and multiple guys will willingly give him the ball because they cant create and need him to make something happen.
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He scores throughout all the game, not just in the end of the game and he gets to the line...I also think he's one of our best offensive rebounders next to Jabari. Ant is either amazing or meh for the last 6 seasons with way too much "meh" for me. Since it's been his team look at what's happened in the loss column. He's not Dame and just isn't an alpha. My 2 cents....the front office might love Ant but I'm over him now. I also want his salary replaced with Banton's ...we can mine the G league for 3rd stringers at any position but if we like the draft this season..we need cap space and roster spots. Ayton for me now is the only untouchable part of the core moving forward. I would rather have Scoot and Sharpe starting and Banton and Brogdan coming off the bench than Ant with any combo of those guys on the floor. Sharpe disappears when Ant is in the game.
 
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The thing with Banton is he can dribble drive either side and has usually a height advantage, seems to put it off the back board for two as good as anyone on the team. He does get to the free throw line too. Ant is a better all around shooter and Banton is basically a scorer and can board.
 
riverman said:
He scores throughout all the game, not just in the end of the game and he gets to the line...I also think he's one of our best offensive rebounders next to Jabari. Ant is either amazing or meh for the last 6 seasons with way too much "meh" for me. Since it's been his team look at what's happened in the loss column. He's not Dame and just isn't an alpha. My 2 cents....the front office might love Ant but I'm over him now. I also want his salary replaced with Banton's ...we can mine the G league for 3rd stringers at any position but if we like the draft this season..we need cap space and roster spots. Ayton for me now is the only untouchable part of the core moving forward. I would rather have Scoot and Sharpe starting and Banton and Brogdan coming off the bench than Ant with any combo of those guys on the floor. Sharpe disappears when Ant is in the game.
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I think this is a perfect case of Banton being the new guy so he's looked at more favorably. It's easy to score all throughout the game when you're shooting 20+ shots a game for a tanking team. Banton was far more inefficient than Simons was, and even more of a black hole.

AST% vs USG % (as a Blazer)
Simons - 27% to 28%
Banton - 20% to 27%

TS%
Simons - 57%
Banton - 50%

Banton would drive into three players, forcing up a tough floater and ignoring wide-open kick-out passes. Ant would've gotten killed the second he did that, but Banton seems to get a pass for doing it constantly. And this is with Ant having to deal with traps and double teams all game long that Banton has never had to deal with. Ant not being a future hall-of-famer like Dame shouldn't be used against him. He is what he is: a really good player who is far better than Delano Banton. I also don't understand choosing an expiring, injured 31-year-old Brogdon over Simons in the middle of a rebuild, given that he's not more efficient nor as good of a playmaker in general.

Part of the thing with Ant is he excels as a catch-and-shoot guy off the ball and has looked good coming off staggers and curls when the shots over-played. Problem is, he's not utilized off the ball enough, partly due to poor roster construction but partly because I think Chauncey embraces putting the ball in his hands a little too much. He's a guy that can handle and create off the dribble at a high-level, but I think his value comes in him being able to play both on-and-off the ball, and he hasn't been put in the easiest situation by Chauncey. With that being said, I think he grew this year in terms of handling traps and double teams, and he made some damn good passes. I think the Ant "iso" stuff isn't as prevalent as you say; plus, it's done out of necessity when the play breaks down, and Simons is the only player on the floor that can create anything.
 
Hoopguru said:
The thing with Banton is he can dribble drive either side and has usually a height advantage, seems to put it off the back board for two as good as anyone on the team. He does get to the free throw line too. Ant is a better all around shooter and Banton is basically a scorer and can board.
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They had almost identical free throw rates and percentages from 2 with Ant getting more attention and passing out of his drives better. I don't see the same advantageous for Banton, and I expect him to struggle when he's forced into more of an off-ball role where he's not getting a bunch of shots each game to build a rhythm.
 
BonesJones said:
I think this is a perfect case of Banton being the new guy so he's looked at more favorably. It's easy to score all throughout the game when you're shooting 20+ shots a game for a tanking team. Banton was far more inefficient than Simons was, and even more of a black hole.

AST% vs USG % (as a Blazer)
Simons - 27% to 28%
Banton - 20% to 27%

TS%
Simons - 57%
Banton - 50%

Banton would drive into three players, forcing up a tough floater and ignoring wide-open kick-out passes. Ant would've gotten killed the second he did that, but Banton seems to get a pass for doing it constantly. And this is with Ant having to deal with traps and double teams all game long that Banton has never had to deal with. Ant not being a future hall-of-famer like Dame shouldn't be used against him. He is what he is: a really good player who is far better than Delano Banton. I also don't understand choosing an expiring, injured 31-year-old Brogdon over Simons in the middle of a rebuild, given that he's not more efficient nor as good of a playmaker in general.

Part of the thing with Ant is he excels as a catch-and-shoot guy off the ball and has looked good coming off staggers and curls when the shots over-played. Problem is, he's not utilized off the ball enough, partly due to poor roster construction but partly because I think Chauncey embraces putting the ball in his hands a little too much. He's a guy that can handle and create off the dribble at a high-level, but I think his value comes in him being able to play both on-and-off the ball, and he hasn't been put in the easiest situation by Chauncey. With that being said, I think he grew this year in terms of handling traps and double teams, and he made some damn good passes. I think the Ant "iso" stuff isn't as prevalent as you say; plus, it's done out of necessity when the play breaks down, and Simons is the only player on the floor that can create anything.
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Ant is an elite scorer when he's on. I never said Banton was as good as Ant shooting the ball, he's not, but he's capable of finishing at the rim and shooting deep, passes well and rebounds really well. Banton is also a way better defender in my view. Being 6'9 helps that but also he's like a new car on it's 3rd owner with 2K miles on it. The kid is just breaking a sweat...Ant has played a ton. The biggest kicker though Torey is his salary compared to Ant's salary for the production. Most bang for the buck....Banton. Brogdan to me is probably a better coach than Chauncey is. That's the advantage to having him be a 6 man or what Earl Watson was to Dame for Scoot and all the young guards....I don't think Ant is a mentor type guy. The Remix will supply endless 3rd string pt guards moving forward but I want a great bench and cap space as well as smart vets in the mix. I also think Ant looked like he had one foot out the door in his exit interview..for what it's worth Brogdan looked like he's out of here in the exit interview as well
 
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riverman said:
Ant is an elite scorer when he's on. I never said Banton was as good as Ant shooting the ball, he's not, but he's capable of finishing at the rim and shooting deep, passes well and rebounds really well. Banton is also a way better defender in my view. Being 6'9 helps that but also he's like a new car on it's 3rd owner with 2K miles on it. The kid is just breaking a sweat...Ant has played a ton. The biggest kicker though Torey is his salary compared to Ant's salary for the production. Most bang for the buck....Banton. Brogdan to me is probably a better coach than Chauncey is. That's the advantage to having him be a 6 man or what Earl Watson was to Dame for Scoot and all the young guards....I don't think Ant is a mentor type guy. The Remix will supply endless 3rd string pt guards moving forward but I want a great bench and cap space as well as smart vets in the mix. I also think Ant looked like he had one foot out the door in his exit interview..for what it's worth Brogdan looked like he's out of here in the exit interview as well
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I'm down to fire Chauncey and hire Brogdon if that's what you're going for! I think he'll be a good coach.
 
BonesJones said:
I'm down to fire Chauncey and hire Brogdon if that's what you're going for! I think he'll be a good coach.
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I was kind of hoping they'd pay him to finish his contract then hire him on staff when the Flagg draft comes around and maybe move Chauncey to the front office as Joe's assistant. Or even give Jim Moran a shot and let an assistant coach the Remix.
 
beast crnjo said:
Agree with all but Simons. He's not hurting a rebuild, his contract is reasonable, if Scoot takes off we can trade Simons next year. RW3 is also dead weight, I've seen enough of Kris Murray as well.
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Ant is terrible on the floor with Scoot and with Shaedon. Those guys with each other or Malcolm in the back court would flourish and then Ant would come in and Scoot or Shae would disappear. Ant doesn't look for anyone, he kills Deandre's game as well. You can say that's coaching but we're keeping our coach, so if development is what this team is about the first two guys who go (for me) are Ant and Jerami. Both dudes are ball hogs on this team with this coach and Ant doesn't even make up for it on defense... he puts those young guards in terrible positions.

Don't get me wrong I think Malcolm and Tisse should bring back more value from teams that are trying to win now than they are worth to us, so I'd trade them too but Ant and Jerami should go ASAP.

As far as being done with Kris... really??? I mean the dude started to do a lot better towards the end of the season and I think you might want to look at his college stats. It takes this guy some time to build confidence at every role he's asked to perform. His shot isn't broken but the confidence in it isn't there yet. Also I wouldn't trade any of our young guys who haven't shown out yet because one thing we have is time for them to develop.
 
blazerkor said:
Ant is terrible on the floor with Scoot and with Shaedon. Those guys with each other or Malcolm in the back court would flourish and then Ant would come in and Scoot or Shae would disappear. Ant doesn't look for anyone, he kills Deandre's game as well. You can say that's coaching but we're keeping our coach, so if development is what this team is about the first two guys who go (for me) are Ant and Jerami. Both dudes are ball hogs on this team with this coach and Ant doesn't even make up for it on defense... he puts those young guards in terrible positions.

Don't get me wrong I think Malcolm and Tisse should bring back more value from teams that are trying to win now than they are worth to us, so I'd trade them too but Ant and Jerami should go ASAP.

As far as being done with Kris... really??? I mean the dude started to do a lot better towards the end of the season and I think you might want to look at his college stats. It takes this guy some time to build confidence at every role he's asked to perform. His shot isn't broken but the confidence in it isn't there yet. Also I wouldn't trade any of our young guys who haven't shown out yet because one thing we have is time for them to develop.
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I feel like people will be saying the same stuff about Sharpe in a couple years. Feels like a repeating cycle with anyone who can actually create a shot.

Chauncey-ball is very iso-heavy in general. The ball movement wasn't much better without those guys. Chauncey would force-feed Jerami the ball in the post and tried to play through him in isolation even though it wasn't efficient. I wonder how the offense would look with this group under someone else.
 
BonesJones said:
Part of the thing with Ant is he excels as a catch-and-shoot guy off the ball and has looked good coming off staggers and curls when the shots over-played. Problem is, he's not utilized off the ball enough, partly due to poor roster construction but partly because I think Chauncey embraces putting the ball in his hands a little too much. He's a guy that can handle and create off the dribble at a high-level, but I think his value comes in him being able to play both on-and-off the ball, and he hasn't been put in the easiest situation by Chauncey. With that being said, I think he grew this year in terms of handling traps and double teams, and he made some damn good passes. I think the Ant "iso" stuff isn't as prevalent as you say; plus, it's done out of necessity when the play breaks down, and Simons is the only player on the floor that can create anything.
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This is why I want Banton and Simons to play together
 
BonesJones said:
I feel like people will be saying the same stuff about Sharpe in a couple years. Feels like a repeating cycle with anyone who can actually create a shot.

Chauncey-ball is very iso-heavy in general. The ball movement wasn't much better without those guys. Chauncey would force-feed Jerami the ball in the post and tried to play through him in isolation even though it wasn't efficient. I wonder how the offense would look with this group under someone else.
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You like to go to the coach... it's kind of the thing you do but when it was Malcolm (who is an established player in this league) along with either Shae or Scoot and there was no one there to stop the ball (Ant or Jerami) the ball and player movement was smooth. Yeah, Deandre got it a lot but he was a quick hitter for scores. I do think it lands on Chauncey to tell guys not to hog the ball and "iso" even though Jerami constantly got the ball in traffic and signaled for clear outs but still the guys I see playing well together in this offense and giving all out effort on defense are any guy on this roster not named Anfernee or Jerami.

I would just say it's those two that need traded but I also think Malcolm and Matisse would have more value for a win now team than they do hear at this point.

I do not see Ant the same way as Shaedon because when Shaedon was given the team last season he shared the ball and when Ant was told to be the man for one game in his rookie year he hogged it. I don't know if it's a lack of creativity on Ant's part or an insecurity that makes him want all of the shots but comparing Ant and Shae is ridiculous with the huge amount of samples we have of both being told they were it.
 
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