5/18, 4 Assists from the "PG" Miller in 38 Minutes

[Minstrel]

You can say it's Sergio's fault somehow for deteriorating from his great rookie potential that he showed.

You can say that his "great rookie potential" was merely wish-casting by a segment of fans hoping for brighter days. It certainly wasn't a remarkable season in terms of production. Like Telfair, he showed glimpses of impressive play but nothing consistent.

But what is it about the NBA which allowed that to happen?

What is it about the NBA that "allowed" Darius Miles to "fail?" What is about the NBA that allowed Tim Thomas or Michael Olowakandi or Kwami Brown to fail? Often times, the player is simply not as talented as he was believed to be as a prospect. Prospects who fail to live up to expectations are not a new thing, it wasn't pioneered or highlighted by Sergio Rodriguez.

The default assumption is that Rodriguez "allowed" it to happen, either by not being talented enough, not suited to the NBA game or not working hard enough to develop in response to the league adjusting to him. Obviously, fans of a player who fails to become a star will allege that he wuz robbed by mismanagement, which is always easy to claim but hard to show compelling evidence of.

It's a tragedy, a loss to the NBA, it probably happens with other Europeans too, and it shouldn't happen.

It seems to me that it happens to many players, European and non-European. I'm not sure there's any evidence of a systematic persecution of players from overseas.

 

[MARIS61]

So, in other words, he's never done it. His career best is 0 TOs in 26 minutes. Yet, people think Miller's 0 TOs (when he was supposedly dominating the ball) is insignificant. BTW, Miller had six games last season where he played at least 33 minutes and had zero TOs - something Sergio has NEVER done, not even once.

BNM

Since you make the ridiculous claim that PT, being a starter vs bench player, and number of years/games played have no bearing on the value of this one stat you are quoting, the turnover per game, try this on for size.

Career average TO's per game:

Blake a very careful 1.43!

Sergio an amazing 1.14!

Bayless a phenomenal 1.06!

Miller a whopping 2.70!

That's right, Andre turns the ball over more often than Sergio and Blake combined!

OMG, he's turned the ball over 2200 times in his career, compared with a combined total of 905 for Blake, Sergio and Bayless!

Thanks, Noob, for pointing out what a ridiculously sloppy ballhandler Miller is. I had no idea until you showed me how to "interpret" stats. I just thought he was an ordinary ballhog, but compared to the guys we've had he may as well be playing for the other team.

 

[Schilly]

Hey Maris....

Andre .08 TO, .21 AST per minute net gain of .13
Blake .06 TO, .16 AST per minute net gain .10
Sergio .09 TO, .23 AST per minute net gain .14

 

[Nikolokolus]

Speaking of acts, you've developed a little arrogance since your ESPN days. When you appeared, your knowledge was obvious to me, and I used to praise you for knowing something. You hadn't developed your present smirking act.

I've been jaded ... and it's not smirking, it's more like sneering.

 

[blue32]

Yarrrrr!, this board be at war with each other!

 

[MARIS61]

One thing that Sergio apologists have yet to fully grasp is how the NBA adapted to Mr. Rodriguez.

There's this little thing in the NBA called scouting. It's really quite useful. Some NBA players actually develop moves that they save specifically for the postseason because of scouting. They don't want their opponents to know everything they have in their repertoire.

Sergio couldn't shoot. He liked to drive and kick. Scouts figured this out. Opponents started to sag off Serg and force him to shoot. They took away his strengths and he never recovered. That's why there was a dropoff from his rookie season.

The sad facts are as follows:

Sergio can't shoot.

Sergio can't play defense.

Sergio can't finish.

He will be out of the league in one or two years, and back playing in Europe. The fact that we can only point to one freakin game in his three years in the league is pretty damn sad if you ask me.

Same old nonsense. Every year you add a year to your prediction, and every year you're wrong.

Sergio had many great games, and the team was 8-5 with him starting last year despite no Blake to back him up. Bayless was in quite a slump during that stretch and was of little help other than 1 game.

Had Nate ever made an attempt to utilize his talents you'd be praising Sergio for the Championship we won last year.

 

[MARIS61]

You can say that his "great rookie potential" was merely wish-casting by a segment of fans hoping for brighter days. It certainly wasn't a remarkable season in terms of production. Like Telfair, he showed glimpses of impressive play but nothing consistent.

Telfair, Telfair....where have I heard that name recently...?

Oh yeah, he's the guy who ripped our team apart and completely schooled Mr. Miller at both ends a few games back. Ran him out of the building as I recall.

Funny, I remember certain posters claiming he'd be out of the league by now.

 

[MARIS61]

What is it about the NBA that "allowed" Darius Miles to "fail?"

An extremely painful career-ending injury is what I heard.

Strange road to go down.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Since you make the ridiculous claim that PT, being a starter vs bench player, and number of years/games played have no bearing on the value of this one stat you are quoting, the turnover per game, try this on for size.

Career average TO's per game:

Blake a very careful 1.43!

Sergio an amazing 1.14!

Bayless a phenomenal 1.06!

Miller a whopping 2.70!

That's right, Andre turns the ball over more often than Sergio and Blake combined!

OMG, he's turned the ball over 2200 times in his career, compared with a combined total of 905 for Blake, Sergio and Bayless!

Thanks, Noob, for pointing out what a ridiculously sloppy ballhandler Miller is. I had no idea until you showed me how to "interpret" stats. I just thought he was an ordinary ballhog, but compared to the guys we've had he may as well be playing for the other team.

Congratulations! This is the dumbest post you've ever made. And that, my friend is quite an accomplishment.

But hey, I'll play your stupid little game:

Sergio Rodriguez:
Career Assists = 627
Career TO/36 = 3.3
Career TOV% = 23.2%

Zach Randolph:
Career Assists = 837
Career TO/36 = 2.6
Career TOV% = 12.1%

OMG, Zach Randolph has more assists and turns the ball over far less often than Sergio. Zach Randolph is a better passer and a better ballhandler than Sergio Rodriguez. We had our PG of the future and our stupid coaches played him out of position at power forward.

BTW...

Andre Milller:
Career Assists = 6020
Career TO/36 = 2.8
Career TOV% = 16.4%

So, I guess that makes Andre nearly 10x the passer Sergio is - and he turns the ball over less often, too.

BNM

 

[Minstrel]

Telfair, Telfair....where have I heard that name recently...?

Oh yeah, he's the guy who ripped our team apart and completely schooled Mr. Miller at both ends a few games back. Ran him out of the building as I recall.

If what you "recall" are fantasies from a single game, your appreciation of Sergio Rodriguez does begin to make sense!

An extremely painful career-ending injury is what I heard.

Miles never delivered on expectations, so unless you are contending that Miles was painfully injured when he entered the NBA, I think it was probably something else.

 

[MARIS61]

Hey Maris....

Andre .08 TO, .21 AST per minute net gain of .13
Blake .06 TO, .16 AST per minute net gain .10
Sergio .09 TO, .23 AST per minute net gain .14

I didn't expect support from you, but it's nice to see objectivity.

From this we can obviously agree Blake should start since he's less TO prone.

Sergio should be traded for so he can come off the bench since he's more likely to assist other players scoring.

And Old Man Miller isn't the best at anything so he should probably retire at this point.

BTW, your "net gain" is a mythical figure as TO's and Ast's aren't comparable points-wise.

An assist is always worth a minimum of 2 points, often 3 points and once in awhile 4 points.

A TO results in the opponent scoring only about 44% of the time.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Same old nonsense. Every year you add a year to your prediction, and every year you're wrong.

No, the prediction is that he will be out of the league as soon as his current cheap rookie contract expires. We had to pay Sacramento to eat the last year of his contract. That was the only way the worst team in the league would take him off our hands.

Had Nate ever made an attempt to utilize his talents you'd be praising Sergio for the Championship we won last year.

Talk about incorrect predictions...

So, how is Sergio "thriving" in Westphal's system now that he has a "real coach who understands team basketball"?

How many DNP-CDs has he racked up in a row now? Good lord, he can't get off the bench in the preaseon for the worst team in the league. Sounds an awful lot like a guy whose days are numbered to me.

BNM

 

[MARIS61]

Miles never delivered on expectations, so unless you are contending that Miles was painfully injured when he entered the NBA, I think it was probably something else.

Not your expectations maybe.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Sergio should be traded for so he can come off the bench since he's more likely to assist other players scoring.

He was traded - to the worst team in the league. Where he is riding the bench assiting other players with towels and water bottles. He has finally found his true calling.

Leave it to a great coach who understands the team game to finally put Sergio in a position where he can reach his full potential.

BNM

 

[MARIS61]

Congratulations! This is the dumbest post you've ever made. And that, my friend is quite an accomplishment.

But hey, I'll play your stupid little game:

Sergio Rodriguez:
Career Assists = 627
Career TO/36 = 3.3
Career TOV% = 23.2%

Zach Randolph:
Career Assists = 837
Career TO/36 = 2.6
Career TOV% = 12.1%

OMG, Zach Randolph has more assists and turns the ball over far less often than Sergio. Zach Randolph is a better passer and a better ballhandler than Sergio Rodriguez. We had our PG of the future and our stupid coaches played him out of position at power forward.

BTW...

Andre Milller:
Career Assists = 6020
Career TO/36 = 2.8
Career TOV% = 16.4%

So, I guess that makes Andre nearly 10x the passer Sergio is - and he turns the ball over less often, too.

BNM

Too bad you were lying yesterday when you told the board you had PapaG and I on ignore.

This debate is obviously too much for your little brain and I'm afraid you're slipping into the dark world of insanity.

Don't want you to end up like this:

[video=youtube;3zgeQmzV9kk]

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Does it take a lot of energy to keep up this gimmick on a day by day basis, Maris?

 

[MARIS61]

Does it take a lot of energy to keep up this gimmick on a day by day basis, Maris?

Ask Boob.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Too bad you were lying yesterday when you told the board you had PapaG and I on ignore.

I never said any such thing. As usual, you jumped to conclusions. I never mentioned anyone by name. I said "two trolls". Why do you automatically assume you and PapaG are trolls? If I was PapaG, I'd be offended.

:This debate is obviously too much for your little brain and i'm afraid you're slipping into the dark world of insanity.

Don't want you to end up like this:

Ah yes, the Maris ad hominem personal attack. The symbolic raising the the white flag and the admission that you simply can't win the debate based on facts. So, you resort to personal attacks on those who have proven you wrong (yet again).

Good thread. You demostrated all your standard posting techniques. Avoiding answering a a simple direct question, changing the subject, a complete misunderstanding of basic statistics, inventing "facts", making EVERY thread about Sergio, and finally concluing with the traditional ad hominem personal attack.

Classic Maris. It's like you work from a script. So predictable.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

BTW, your "net gain" is a mythical figure as TO's and Ast's aren't comparable points-wise.

An assist is always worth a minimum of 2 points, often 3 points and once in awhile 4 points.

A TO results in the opponent scoring only about 44% of the time.

To ensure I'm interpreting this statement correctly, are you suggesting here that a single assist is a greater net positive than a single turnover is a net negative?

 

[MARIS61]

Just for the record, Mook, Boob, and The Sebastian Express brought Sergio into this thread, not me. This has become an annoying baiting tactic by these 3, NateBishop, Minstrel, Andulusion and several others.

There were others, but the more intelligent ones have tired of it already.

It's a broken record. Every time I try to give my opinions about our current roster, I'm called a troll and posters change the subject by attacking a Kings player. Very childish.

The same people treat PapaG the same way. He has valid observations and concerns about the team's sudden change in direction and he's attacked rather than debated, and called a troll.

Had I done what they have done I'd have been banned by now.

Get over it guys, he's gone and you'll have to address our current roster if you want to be taken seriously.

I realize it's hard to defend Old Man Miller on his own merits but give it a try, will you?

 

[MARIS61]

I never said any such thing. As usual, you jumped to conclusions. I never mentioned anyone by name. I said "two trolls". Why do you automatically assume you and PapaG are trolls? If I was PapaG, I'd be offended.

BNM

Now ... Deleted

Have some stones and don't run away from your statements. Only trolls do what you're doing.

It is clear you were referring to us and nobody else. If you want to keep playing this infantile game, simply name the posters you referring to if they are not PapaG and me.

If you are now afraid to back it up you should just run off to Olive. You'll fit right in there, troll.

 

[MARIS61]

To ensure I'm interpreting this statement correctly, are you suggesting here that a single assist is a greater net positive than a single turnover is a net negative?

How very astute of you.

An assist cannot be undone.

A turnover can be, and often is, undone.

 

[blue32]

What the fuck is going on here? lol.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

How very astute of you.

An assist cannot be undone.

A turnover can be, and often is, undone.

If your value analysis were correct, then wouldn't an a/to ratio over 1.0 be a net positive to a team? If a player were contributing (say) 6 assists and 5 turnovers on a nightly basis, that would be a good thing?

 

[LittleAlex]

How has he performed better? Miller has more assists per game or per minute, more points and is shooting .472 to Bayless' .379. That last one is a whopping difference.

*sigh* Why do I even reply? It's clear you won't be satisfied until everybody agrees with you that Sergio Rodriguez is the best young PG in the NBA.

Because you want me to have to read MARIS61's completely useless posts even though I put him on ignore.

It's the only reason I can think of to feed that troll.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Now you're just being a lowlife coward.

Have some stones and don't run away from your statements. Only trolls do what you're doing.

It is clear you were referring to us and nobody else. If you want to keep playing this infantile game, simply name the posters you referring to if they are not PapaG and me.

If you are now afraid to back it up you should just run off to Olive. You'll fit right in there, troll.

Wow! And the personal attacks escalate.

How about you address what I wrote rather than who wrote it? If you can't debate the issue based on the merits of your position, without resorting to attacking those with an opposing opinion, maybe it's time for you to bow out of the discussion.

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

Same old nonsense. Every year you add a year to your prediction, and every year you're wrong.

Sergio had many great games, and the team was 8-5 with him starting last year despite no Blake to back him up. Bayless was in quite a slump during that stretch and was of little help other than 1 game.

Had Nate ever made an attempt to utilize his talents you'd be praising Sergio for the Championship we won last year.

Since he's still in his rookie contract, I think I'm well within the timeframe that I've been posting. There is a very good chance your favorite player will be back in Fortress Europa next year. There's also a chance that some team will give him a shot next season on a veteran minimum. That will be his last chance though.

PS - ROFL at this:

Had Nate ever made an attempt to utilize his talents you'd be praising Sergio for the Championship we won last year.

 

[MARIS61]

If your value analysis were correct, then wouldn't an a/to ratio over 1.0 be a net positive to a team? If a player were contributing (say) 6 assists and 5 turnovers on a nightly basis, that would be a good thing?

It's certainly better than 4 assists with 5-18 shooting (effectively 10 turnovers).

 

[Natebishop3]

It's certainly better than 4 assists with 5-18 shooting (effectively 10 turnovers).

Better call David Stern and tell him that missed FG's will now be counted as turnovers as well.

 

[MARIS61]

BNM

This message is hidden because Boob-No-More is on your very exclusive ignore list.

Congrats Boob! By dodging questions, distorting other's posts, mounting personal attacks, and more importantly doing so without displaying any wit or amusing anecdotes, you've finally distinguished yourself as not worth my time and are the sole poster whom I will ignore this entire season.

Please return the favor.