7.1 million

[3RA1N1AC]

Wait....I'm cornfused

 

[MarAzul]

I don't have kids, but I pay for schools. As I should, since I am part of the society. I don't have Lupus, or AIDS or any other major ailment, but the potential is there, and an individual can't afford to pay for these, which is why they have insurance. You are insured for things in a group for the same reason, so that people arent left out. You talk frequently about living Christ-like, well part of that is making sure that everyone is taken care of health-wise. If we have a system that doesn't leave people with preexisting conditions on the outside looking in, than you, me, and everyone else is going to have to share the burden. I don't want to pay for oil subsidies or a new military weapon, I pay for corn subsidies even though I don't eat corn. But over all, these are supposed to be how to efficiently run a society. There are problems with that, but to nitpick out that you don't want to help subsidize the healthcare of an AIDS patient cause you aren't likely to get it is to hone into the minutia instead of realizing that it has to be that way unless we want all AIDS patients to be homeless and end up living off the govt tits anyway (which you would still end up paying for in the long run).

Very interesting. The law was passed as the Christian thing to do. Beautiful spin there my man. But you need to work on the minutia, covering the minutia is not jacking up the premiums, covering high cost aliments
jack up the cost. Sort of dumb too when everybody knows how to avoid the risks. But the bottom line here is the Constitution tells us the business of the Congress, not the Christians teachings of Jesus.

Ha! No where in the Constitution does it list the job of Chief Insurance Salesman, but you have seen this Chief executive out there doing just that. Just today he said we haven't had a Marketing effort in the Billions! He is right, it's been slightly less than a billion, the highest amount any President ever spent selling anything! None of which is listed as his function in the Constitution.

 

[Eastoff]

Sort of dumb too when everybody knows how to avoid the risks.

Yeah! Don't be born in a family with cancer genetics! MORONS! Those dumb bitches had breast cancer coming to them! Don't inherit Lupis! Idiots! Those fucking slackers should have thought twice before being born to a mother with HIV! The sins of the father should be felt by the son! That's why children born in poverty deserve to have rotting teeth and die of diseases we can cure.

/s

 

[blazerboy30]

129.8 Million. Oh wait that's the number of emergency room visits in 2010. $1,233 oh that's the average cost of an emergency room visit. Well if we just multiply those for fun, we get 160$B in 2010 for emergency room visits. Sorry What was the question?

Sometimes I have no idea where your line of thinking is going.

Do you think that because they have insurance that the emergency room visit is now free? Explain to me how obamacare affects the cost and frequency of emergency room visits.

 

[blazerboy30]

Those that think Obamacare has been anything close to a success are either incredibly ignorant on the subject or lying to themselves. It has been a disaster from those trying to sign up, to those who had their insurance cancelled and have had to find a new, non-obamacare plan, to those that have had their taxes increased (by a lot) to pay for it.

Starting a thread on here saying that 7.1 million represents a success just shows a complete lack of understanding and probably dishonesty.

 

[Eastoff]

Sometimes I have no idea where your line of thinking is going.

Do you think that because they have insurance that the emergency room visit is now free? Explain to me how obamacare affects the cost and frequency of emergency room visits.

A lot of people unnecessarily visit the emergency room because they lack health insurance. There are now more people covered and will no longer need to visit the emergency room for a problem that can be solved by a regular doctor.

 

[Denny Crane]

Nice theory. But wrong.

 

[blazerboy30]

A lot of people unnecessarily visit the emergency room because they lack health insurance. There are now more people covered and will no longer need to visit the emergency room for a problem that can be solved by a regular doctor.

Um, no.

But it's fun to make up numbers so you can keep believing in your bias.

 

[MarAzul]

Yeah! Don't be born in a family with cancer genetics! MORONS! Those dumb bitches had breast cancer coming to them! Don't inherit Lupis! Idiots! Those fucking slackers should have thought twice before being born to a mother with HIV! The sins of the father should be felt by the son! That's why children born in poverty deserve to have rotting teeth and die of diseases we can cure.

/s

The only way an insurance company can "sell" insurance to Aids, Cancer, and other high risk high cost people is to have the government force the healthy to buy these policies. Insurance without the government involvement is a service that people choose to take part in to share the risk of above average cost by leveling the cost through premiums paid by the risk pool.

Government involvement forcing inordinately high risk and cost into this pool destroys this concept. It becomes a tax on the healthy to benefit the high risk, high cost members. Voluntary participation would not occur so the heavy hand of force by the government is required to make this system work. This sort of activity by the government is not part of our Constitution nor would it fit within the Rights of Americans, set forth in the Declaration of Independence. " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

It's obvious, most Americans consider this action an infringement of Liberty and the consent of the governed is way short. This sort of intrusion into the our lives is the sort of thing that should require a super majority as is called for in the amendment process and I think there is no chance in hell that this act could achieve anywhere close to a super majority. It did not garner one Republican vote and not all Democrats and there are even less Democrats now.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

A lot of people unnecessarily visit the emergency room because they lack health insurance. There are now more people covered and will no longer need to visit the emergency room for a problem that can be solved by a regular doctor.

I dunno. I'd think people would avoid the ER if they didn't have health insurance.

 

[Eastoff]

I dunno. I'd think people would avoid the ER if they didn't have health insurance.

It's called dine and dash.

 

[blazerboy30]

My taxes went up significantly this year because of obamacare.

 

[PapaG]

I don't have kids, but I pay for schools. As I should, since I am part of the society. I don't have Lupus, or AIDS or any other major ailment, but the potential is there, and an individual can't afford to pay for these, which is why they have insurance. You are insured for things in a group for the same reason, so that people arent left out. You talk frequently about living Christ-like, well part of that is making sure that everyone is taken care of health-wise. If we have a system that doesn't leave people with preexisting conditions on the outside looking in, than you, me, and everyone else is going to have to share the burden. I don't want to pay for oil subsidies or a new military weapon, I pay for corn subsidies even though I don't eat corn. But over all, these are supposed to be how to efficiently run a society. There are problems with that, but to nitpick out that you don't want to help subsidize the healthcare of an AIDS patient cause you aren't likely to get it is to hone into the minutia instead of realizing that it has to be that way unless we want all AIDS patients to be homeless and end up living off the govt tits anyway (which you would still end up paying for in the long run).

I assume you went to public school. Or, does that not count, because other people were supposed to pay for your education? Either that, or your parents were rich and sent you to private school.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I dunno. I'd think people would avoid the ER if they didn't have health insurance.

Many do

 

[Eastoff]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life"
...
Government involvement forcing inordinately high risk and cost into this pool destroys this concept. It becomes a tax on the healthy to benefit the high risk, high cost members.

Are these two points not related?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

surprised the obama team hasnt publicly and condescendingly challenged all christians to "walk the walk" as it were, and heal the sick, take care of the poor, drink the wine flavored kool aid, etc, etc, blah blah blah

"suck it up buttercup, you actually have to earn your eternal reward, whats a lifetime of taxes compared to an eternity in paradise? Do you love satan?" would be a brilliant viral marketing campaign

 

[DaLincolnJones]

A lot of people unnecessarily visit the emergency room because they lack health insurance. There are now more people covered and will no longer need to visit the emergency room for a problem that can be solved by a regular doctor.

man...of the 7.1 million only 800k are new to being insured. Of those, the majority are being merged into the state medicare ranks while a large portion on the remainder are subsidized by tax payers.

the only winners will be the hospitals and the insurance companies.

 

[Further]

I assume you went to public school. Or, does that not count, because other people were supposed to pay for your education? Either that, or your parents were rich and sent you to private school.

It doesn't matter

It doesn't speak to the point.

 

[MarAzul]

Are these two points not related?

Nope. You get Life right out of the chute and its your to take care of, to enhance by the pursuit of happiness in your way, with the Liberty to do so. You should be able to count on your government to protect your Liberty to make your life the happiest you can.

You have no guarantees but you have the same right to liberty and the pursuit as the next person. You have no right to continuing life, or happiness, these are for you to achieve.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I saw this thread title, and I thought, "What is, 'The number of people in the world just like you if you are one in a million'? "

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Not a lot of sympathy on this board. Obviously some people don't like Obamacare and it has impacted some/many negatively, and I feel bad for those people. But at the same time we have heard some heart warming stories from posters we associate with on a daily basis. To say Obamacare doesn't help anyone just isn't true. I understand there needs to be a balance and the jury is still out (at least for me) if this is good legislation for the country overall.

But good god people, to just ignore the good it does (people with pre-existing conditions having no coverage before is one of them) seems so callous. if anyone thinks they have it bad having to pay more money, how would someone feel if they had a serious illness or condition living in US and unable to get treated because they don't have health care.

The state of healthcare is not a win/win situation right now. Many people who need medical care can't afford it. Regardless of whose fault it is, in a super nation like ours, you got take your the sick.

 

[MarAzul]

Not a lot of sympathy on this board. Obviously some people don't like Obamacare and it has impacted some/many negatively, and I feel bad for those people. But at the same time we have heard some heart warming stories from posters we associate with on a daily basis. To say Obamacare doesn't help anyone just isn't true. I understand there needs to be a balance and the jury is still out (at least for me) if this is good legislation for the country overall.

But good god people, to just ignore the good it does (people with pre-existing conditions having no coverage before is one of them) seems so callous. if anyone thinks they have it bad having to pay more money, how would someone feel if they had a serious illness or condition living in US and unable to get treated because they don't have health care.

The state of healthcare is not a win/win situation right now. Many people who need medical care can't afford it. Regardless of whose fault it is, in a super nation like ours, you got take your the sick.

You do realize the ACA did not change much in Oregon if you are on the Oregon plan. There are a whole host of things they will not treat, Cancer being one.
I expect Oregon has been leading the way in how this stuff will be rationed in the future.

"Controversy

The Oregon Health Plan became the focus of national scrutiny in 2003, after deep budget cuts led to 100,000 people in mental health and/or substance abuse treatment losing prescription coverage under the program.[15]

During 2008 and 2009, the Oregon Health Plan stirred up controversy when enforcing 1994 guidelines[16] to only cover comfort care, and not to cover cancer treatment such as chemotherapy, surgery and radiotherapy for patients with less than a 5% chance of survival over five years.[17]

Springfield resident Barbara Wagner said her oncologist prescribed the chemotherapy drug Tarceva for her lung cancer, but that Oregon Health Plan officials sent her a letter declining coverage for the drug, and informing her that they will only pay for palliative care and physician-assisted suicide. She appealed the denial twice, but lost both times.[18] Tarceva drugmaker Genentech agreed to supply her the $4000-a-month[19] drug free of charge.[20] Wagner's plight garnered a flurry of attention from the media,[21] the blogosphere,[22][23][24][25] and triggered protest from religious groups.[26][27][28] Wagner died in October 2008, three weeks after starting Tarceva.[29]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Health_Plan
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...ssisted_suicide_not_drugs_for_cancer_patient/

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Not a lot of sympathy on this board. Obviously some people don't like Obamacare and it has impacted some/many negatively, and I feel bad for those people. But at the same time we have heard some heart warming stories from posters we associate with on a daily basis. To say Obamacare doesn't help anyone just isn't true. I understand there needs to be a balance and the jury is still out (at least for me) if this is good legislation for the country overall.

But good god people, to just ignore the good it does (people with pre-existing conditions having no coverage before is one of them) seems so callous. if anyone thinks they have it bad having to pay more money, how would someone feel if they had a serious illness or condition living in US and unable to get treated because they don't have health care.

The state of healthcare is not a win/win situation right now. Many people who need medical care can't afford it. Regardless of whose fault it is, in a super nation like ours, you got take your the sick.

Sick people are ruining our healthcare system. If we could eliminate that problem we wouldn't need something like Obamacare.

 

[riverman]

Nope. You get Life right out of the chute and its your to take care of, to enhance by the pursuit of happiness in your way, with the Liberty to do so. You should be able to count on your government to protect your Liberty to make your life the happiest you can.

You have no guarantees but you have the same right to liberty and the pursuit as the next person. You have no right to continuing life, or happiness, these are for you to achieve.

You make some real fairytale assumptions MarAzul..I grew up in the era of a military draft, do you know how many of my friends came back from war missing limbs or worse? Did they have the right to earn that? Do paraplegics have the right after they are born severly disabled. My parents were both dust bowl orphans, but I guess they should have been happier about that too! According to your views you must live a very insular life in a bubble because buddy, that's not the real world and that's not what true democracy is meant to represent to this patriot. I guess if your house is burning down you could just forget calling the fire dept because they aren't required to help you, you've got to provide your own ladder and hose.

 

[Further]

Not a lot of sympathy on this board. Obviously some people don't like Obamacare and it has impacted some/many negatively, and I feel bad for those people. But at the same time we have heard some heart warming stories from posters we associate with on a daily basis. To say Obamacare doesn't help anyone just isn't true. I understand there needs to be a balance and the jury is still out (at least for me) if this is good legislation for the country overall.

But good god people, to just ignore the good it does (people with pre-existing conditions having no coverage before is one of them) seems so callous. if anyone thinks they have it bad having to pay more money, how would someone feel if they had a serious illness or condition living in US and unable to get treated because they don't have health care.

The state of healthcare is not a win/win situation right now. Many people who need medical care can't afford it. Regardless of whose fault it is, in a super nation like ours, you got take your the sick.

Well said. I'm not against improvements in obamacare, in fact I hope members on both sides of the isle work together to get our healthcare system working efficiently and not overburdening individuals or the economy.

But some form of universal healthcare needs to remain, we can't be a nation that doesn't help the weak and indigent, especially when it comes to healthcare.


This pic is from before obamacare, the green countries have some form of universal healthcare. Which developed nations don't have some form? Mexico and Turkey, not too many others. And personally I'd rather share aspects with the ones in green than the ones in grey.

 

[MarAzul]

You make some real fairytale assumptions MarAzul..I grew up in the era of a military draft, do you know how many of my friends came back from war missing limbs or worse? Did they have the right to earn that? Do paraplegics have the right after they are born severly disabled. My parents were both dust bowl orphans, but I guess they should have been happier about that too! According to your views you must live a very insular life in a bubble because buddy, that's not the real world and that's not what true democracy is meant to represent to this patriot. I guess if your house is burning down you could just forget calling the fire dept because they aren't required to help you, you've got to provide your own ladder and hose.

Hey how you doing Riv? You won't find me lamenting the load I was dealt. Heck I am really happy having lived a long life with more in plan. I probably started out sort of average but had to get er done through my early life without Dad, he is still on his last cruise in the Pacific. I lived with some people until I was 16 then the house burned down. Funny you should mention that, but I got back to the house from High School just in time to see that it was too late to do shit about it. Never saw those people again that I was living with. Well hell, I rented a house and finished High School and proud to say, Valedictorian too.

Worked in the wood that summer, choker set on a High lead crew, then the rigging slinger. Hot damn that was all fun and quite an experience. Went down to Corvallis early fall to play football
but the new coach red shirted me, then played a little freshman Basketball, but dang I didn't get my scholarship. I was taking classes and eating and all but not really in school officially.

Danged if I didn't get a Draft notice and I didn't have shit to show why I couldn't go. Talked to a Senior Basketball player, he was 25 and had already served a tour in Korea. He told me, I better forget about school right now because they want you After you serve your military time. That's why you don't have a scholarship. Just like him.

So I activated my status with the Navy Reserve and went to the best school I ever attended in San Diego. Severed six years with the United States Navy and it was a dam good time, I learned much.

Never did go back to Corvallis, they kind of tweaked my jaws a little when the Navy sent me to UC for awhile. I wanted to sort of expidite the scholarship while I was there so I skipped the foot ball but I did want to play basketball. All went well for a few weeks then the Coach informed me that I was not going to get to play ball at UC. Corvallis said I belonged to them and that was that. Well the Coach at UC at the time was an old Navy man and he new an Admiral that wanted to start a team to play some other service team and early season college games. They asked me to coach the team. We had a heck of a good time, the experience was marvelous.

After the Navy, I worked a career with IBM and I had healthcare provided by that company for 52 years until Obama decided to levy a tax on them for covering me and my wife(and about 400,000 other retirees). That pissed me off.

But hell I am a Priority Group 3 veteran in the VA system, and I bought my wife some insurance.

All in all it has been great, but I do not like the government fucking with what I earned like they have done! That really pisses me off.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Riiiiiiiiiight.

 

[riverman]

Hey how you doing Riv? You won't find me lamenting the load I was dealt. Heck I am really happy having lived a long life with more in plan. I probably started out sort of average but had to get er done through my early life without Dad, he is still on his last cruise in the Pacific. I lived with some people until I was 16 then the house burned down. Funny you should mention that, but I got back to the house from High School just in time to see that it was too late to do shit about it. Never saw those people again that I was living with. Well hell, I rented a house and finished High School and proud to say, Valedictorian too.

Worked in the wood that summer, choker set on a High lead crew, then the rigging slinger. Hot damn that was all fun and quite an experience. Went down to Corvallis early fall to play football
but the new coach red shirted me, then played a little freshman Basketball, but dang I didn't get my scholarship. I was taking classes and eating and all but not really in school officially. Nobody is going to tell me that it's a level playing field though. It's not and more often than not, it's not by choice.

Danged if I didn't get a Draft notice and I didn't have shit to show why I couldn't go. Talked to a Senior Basketball player, he was 25 and had already served a tour in Korea. He told me, I better forget about school right now because they want you After you serve your military time. That's why you don't have a scholarship. Just like him.

So I activated my status with the Navy Reserve and went to the best school I ever attended in San Diego. Severed six years with the United States Navy and it was a dam good time, I learned much.

Never did go back to Corvallis, they kind of tweaked my jaws a little when the Navy sent me to UC for awhile. I wanted to sort of expidite the scholarship while I was there so I skipped the foot ball but I did want to play basketball. All went well for a few weeks then the Coach informed me that I was not going to get to play ball at UC. Corvallis said I belonged to them and that was that. Well the Coach at UC at the time was an old Navy man and he new an Admiral that wanted to start a team to play some other service team and early season college games. They asked me to coach the team. We had a heck of a good time, the experience was marvelous.

After the Navy, I worked a career with IBM and I had healthcare provided by that company for 52 years until Obama decided to levy a tax on them for covering me and my wife(and about 400,000 other retirees). That pissed me off.

But hell I am a Priority Group 3 veteran in the VA system, and I bought my wife some insurance.

All in all it has been great, but I do not like the government fucking with what I earned like they have done! That really pisses me off.

Hey man! Good to hear your story, sounds a bit like mine, 32nd st NTC radioman. Graduated NTC in 71. I don't blame the govt though, I blame your company. Mine kept me 2 hrs short of the 40 to cover my family but I had coverage but now both the wife and son have coverage and it's not very expensive. I paid out of pocket for my son and wife until Obama care was available so for me, it's been a relief. My job of 12 years turns quite a profit by keeping us just under the hours to fully insure the whole family. Somebody has to speak up for those who benefit from the change and my family has.

 

[riverman]

By the way, if folks really want to complain about insurance, it's the insurance companies that are screwing folks, not the government.

 

[MarAzul]

Hey man! Good to hear your story, sounds a bit like mine, 32nd st NTC radioman. Graduated NTC in 71. I don't blame the govt though, I blame your company. Mine kept me 2 hrs short of the 40 to cover my family but I had coverage but now both the wife and son have coverage and it's not very expensive. I paid out of pocket for my son and wife until Obama care was available so for me, it's been a relief. My job of 12 years turns quite a profit by keeping us just under the hours to fully insure the whole family. Somebody has to speak up for those who benefit from the change and my family has.

No my friend, the fault is directly on the designers of Obama care including him. The purpose of this tax is to eliminate the self insured companies from providing health care in the Self insured system. No way is this tax going to produce
revenue and there is no logic at all to taxing a company for each employee or retiree they cover. First the retirees and spouses go, soon we will see the regular employees.

Geez man these companies were already paying a ton covering us the the government says pay millions more in taxes or quit covering them!!! Fuck you know what the answer is before you ask the damn question.
This is fucking with people and trashing their Liberty and making a mockery of justice and the Constitution all in one fucking action by design. Read the shit that the architect wrote, Dr Ezekiel Emanuel.
This is a plan and I wish the hell people would wake the fuck up.