7.1 million

[blazerboy30]

Riverman said that doctors shouldn't deny someone based on who that person receives insurance from. (As long as the doctors office receives the money that they were due, why should they care who the insurance is?)

There is no difference. A doctor should and can be responsible for deciding when and where they want to work. Many doctors and other medical professionals today don't accept insurance. They have every right in the world to do so if that's what they choose. This isn't a dictatorship.

 

[blazerboy30]

I don't claim to know what all of this is about, but I'm convinced you don't know much better.

I've seen your predictions right after Obama was elected and nothing has panned out the way you said it would.

Which predictions are you talking about?

And you think you know what Obamacare is all about and what's behind it all and are going to let me know it's not for the reasons I would like to believe . . . okey dokey

This sentence doesn't even make sense.

However, I do know that health insurance could have been supplied to EVERY SINGLE uninsured person in the country for MUCH less than obamacare is projected to cost, without affecting the insurance of those that already had it. That is a fact.

This mandate isn't about getting coverage to those that truly can't afford it. If you think that is the real goal, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[blazerboy30]

It's a good thing to give towards, but look at gates for real philanthropy. David Koch 506 mil donations over decades are equivalent to someone with a net worth of 1 mil giving less than $13,000 over those two decades. Likely just tax dodges anyway.

You've got to be absolutely kidding me.

You're calling out somebody who gave $506 MILLION for not giving enough?

How much did you give last year?

What a joke. What a disgrace.

 

[riverman]

There is no difference. A doctor should and can be responsible for deciding when and where they want to work. Many doctors and other medical professionals today don't accept insurance. They have every right in the world to do so if that's what they choose. This isn't a dictatorship.

There's a huge difference. Doctors take an oath to heal the sick. Next you'll be saying they can choose to deny their services because of their political affilliations or race..Granted it's expensive to go to medical school. The cost of higher education is another topic for discussion. The Nazis could refuse to provide medical services to the Jews or Gypsies for example. That's not democracy, that's facism. If we want our country to be a shining example of democracy, we need to address our public health system. It's not perfect but it's an effort to start changing things. Obama care has flaws. Not quite as many as Congress, but it has flaws. If you are a doctor, you can choose to only care for the wealthy or become a plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills. Then you just won't have to deal with the disadvantaged or homeless. Many do.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Which predictions are you talking about?



This sentence doesn't even make sense.

However, I do know that health insurance could have been supplied to EVERY SINGLE uninsured person in the country for MUCH less than obamacare is projected to cost, without affecting the insurance of those that already had it. That is a fact.

This mandate isn't about getting coverage to those that truly can't afford it. If you think that is the real goal, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Whatever you say blazerboy . . .

 

[Denny Crane]

There's a huge difference. Doctors take an oath to heal the sick. Next you'll be saying they can choose to deny their services because of their political affilliations or race..Granted it's expensive to go to medical school. The cost of higher education is another topic for discussion. The Nazis could refuse to provide medical services to the Jews or Gypsies for example. That's not democracy, that's facism. If we want our country to be a shining example of democracy, we need to address our public health system. It's not perfect but it's an effort to start changing things. Obama care has flaws. Not quite as many as Congress, but it has flaws. If you are a doctor, you can choose to only care for the wealthy or become a plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills. Then you just won't have to deal with the disadvantaged or homeless. Many do.

We're not a democracy.

ObamaCare doesn't address our public health system. It actually is fascist - a government rigidly controlling private enterprise (insurance industry). If it were about a public health system, they'd have made another public health system to go along with the Veterans Administration (which is a public health system).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism

fas·cism [fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3.
( initial capital letter ) a political movement that employs the principles and methods of fascism, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

 

[riverman]

We're not a democracy.

ObamaCare doesn't address our public health system. It actually is fascist - a government rigidly controlling private enterprise (insurance industry). If it were about a public health system, they'd have made another public health system to go along with the Veterans Administration (which is a public health system).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism

fas·cism [fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3.
( initial capital letter ) a political movement that employs the principles and methods of fascism, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

Sorry Denny, we are a democracy and the president is not a dictator. I have several dictionaries as well. I understand you dislike Obamacare but this is beyond a stretch. One might suppose insurance agencies and their lobbies in the capital are involved in politics. If a president takes on Wall Street for insider trading, it's a good thing, not a dictatorship. If he takes on the banking system when it's causing chaos in the housing industry, it's not a dictatorship and all of those are independant companies. If a president goes after tax shelters in the Caymans or Swiss banks, that's not a dictatorship. It's a president trying to do his job. I commend the man. I'm proud of our democracy.

 

[riverman]

So Denny, are you providing Sly with health insurance here?

 

[Denny Crane]

Sorry Denny, we are a democracy and the president is not a dictator. I have several dictionaries as well. I understand you dislike Obamacare but this is beyond a stretch. One might suppose insurance agencies and their lobbies in the capital are involved in politics. If a president takes on Wall Street for insider trading, it's a good thing, not a dictatorship. If he takes on the banking system when it's causing chaos in the housing industry, it's not a dictatorship and all of those are independant companies. If a president goes after tax shelters in the Caymans or Swiss banks, that's not a dictatorship. It's a president trying to do his job. I commend the man. I'm proud of our democracy.

We are a republic, not a democracy.

Use your dictionary, dammit!

The frigging law has his name on it, and he's changing it without consent of congress. It's as dictatorial as it can be under the current political/economic environment.

If telling insurance companies what they must cover isn't regimenting industry, then what is it? If telling consumers they must buy it or else isn't regimenting commerce, what is it?

The connection between Insurance giants and government is downright fascist.

What's the difference between health insurance and health care? You don't need the former to provide the latter.

 

[riverman]

In my view, the biggest difference between health insurance and health care is one will pull your tooth and the other will repair it. Don't get me started on Congress. The same Congress that's made it's primary concern voting itself raises and vacation time while stalling any progress in order to make the administration appear to be unable to pass any legislation, although they have tried. I'm not a Democrat or a Republican but this GOP led Congress is an insult to representation. Their job has been to discredit the government in order to keep lobbyists happy and get some fuel for the next election.

 

[Denny Crane]

In my view, the biggest difference between health insurance and health care is one will pull your tooth and the other will repair it. Don't get me started on Congress. The same Congress that's made it's primary concern voting itself raises and vacation time while stalling any progress in order to make the administration appear to be unable to pass any legislation, although they have tried. I'm not a Democrat or a Republican but this GOP led Congress is an insult to representation. Their job has been to discredit the government in order to keep lobbyists happy and get some fuel for the next election.

If auto insurance worked like health insurance, you would have a copay to put gas in the tank. But it works like INSURANCE. If you total your car, it buys you a new one.

Health care is hiring doctors and buying medicine and providing facilities to treat people who have some ailment. Insurance companies do not buy medicine, hire the doctors, etc.

The difference is a fairly important one.

It's unconstitutional for congress to vote itself pay raises.

AMENDMENT XXVII
Originally proposed Sept. 25, 1789. Ratified May 7, 1992.

No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of representatives shall have intervened.

 

[riverman]

No dicatatorship will allow a leader to be voted out of office or impeached. (amendment by riverman after his second double espresso)

 

[Denny Crane]

No dicatatorship will allow a leader to be voted out of office or impeached. (amendment by riverman after his second double espresso)

You're fixated on the wrong thing.

The espresso is fine.

 

[riverman]

It's not a fixation, it's a choice and a point of view. I support the president's actions and although I'd never make the debate team, I do love our democratic freedom of speech. I've been in countries with soldiers armed on the streets and to call this country facist is a point of contention with me. Comparing Obama with a Kim Jong Un is a gross distortion of reality. The espresso is good though, we agree at least on that

 

[riverman]

And I do apologize to the posters here for going way beyond my last gasp post.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's not a fixation, it's a choice and a point of view. I support the president's actions and although I'd never make the debate team, I do love our democratic freedom of speech. I've been in countries with soldiers armed on the streets and to call this country facist is a point of contention with me. Comparing Obama with a Kim Jong Un is a gross distortion of reality. The espresso is good though, we agree at least on that

Which would cost less:

1) paying a middleman (insurance companies)
2) hiring doctors to provide the required care

It is absurd to charge someone $250/month for a plan with $5000 deductible. The person is paying for $5K of care out of his pocket on top of the monthly theft. Get rid of the $250/mo and charge people what it costs for the actual care at the point the care is provided. Let people shop for the combination of price and expected result. We already have hundreds of programs to help the poor, it is only an incremental bit more to subsidize catastrophic care.

If govt. wants to control costs, it can open its own hospitals and hire doctors and buy equipment and meds in bulk. Consumers can choose that over private options, and many will.

ObamaCare extracts that $250/mo from someone's wallet and gives it to the insurance companies. Good for shareholders, not for anyone else.

$250/mo pays for dozens of flu shots, doctor visits, lab tests, and prescriptions. Or food and rent.

 

[Further]

Recent gallup polling
http://www.gallup.com/poll/168248/uninsured-rate-lowest-2008.aspx

In U.S., Uninsured Rate Lowest Since 2008
Uninsured rate declines most among blacks and lower-income Americans
by Jenna Levy
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- In the U.S., the uninsured rate dipped to 15.6% in the first quarter of 2014, a 1.5-percentage-point decline from the fourth quarter of 2013. The uninsured rate is now at the lowest level recorded since late 2008.

Percentage Uninsured in the U.S., by Quarter

The uninsured rate has been falling since the fourth quarter of 2013, after hitting an all-time high of 18.0% in the third quarter -- a sign that the Affordable Care Act, commonly referred to as "Obamacare," appears to be accomplishing its goal of increasing the percentage of Americans with health insurance coverage. Even within this year's first quarter, the uninsured rate fell consistently, from 16.2% in January to 15.6% in February to 15.0% in March. And within March, the rate dropped more than a point, from 15.5% in the first half of the month to 14.5% in the second half -- indicating that enrollment through the healthcare exchanges increased as the March 31 deadline approached.

The results from the first quarter are based on more than 43,500 interviews with U.S. adults from Jan. 2 to March 31, 2014, as part of the Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index.....

 

[MarAzul]

We are a republic, not a democracy.

Use your dictionary, dammit!

The frigging law has his name on it, and he's changing it without consent of congress. It's as dictatorial as it can be under the current political/economic environment.

If telling insurance companies what they must cover isn't regimenting industry, then what is it? If telling consumers they must buy it or else isn't regimenting commerce, what is it?

The connection between Insurance giants and government is downright fascist.

What's the difference between health insurance and health care? You don't need the former to provide the latter.

Yes, very similar to Hitler's government and the relationship with several of his industrialist, Krupp being the most notable.

 

[MarAzul]

No dicatatorship will allow a leader to be voted out of office or impeached. (amendment by riverman after his second double espresso)

A dictator is not defined by how he leaves office, but by the fact he creates and changes the laws without interference from others.
It is yet to be determined how Obama leaves office.

 

[Denny Crane]

Recent gallup polling
http://www.gallup.com/poll/168248/uninsured-rate-lowest-2008.aspx

Giving away medicare to poor people will do that.

Obama cheerleader site:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...macare-percentage-uninsured-falls-156-percent

The Congressional Budget Office has projected that 13 million Americans will get health insurance because of Obamacare. Gallup's numbers would correspond to a significantly smaller decline, although the numbers depend on what you choose as a starting point. Then again, Gallup's numbers don't account for the end of open enrollment—when, by all accounts, large numbers of people rushed to sign up for coverage. They also don't account for a full year of enrollment in Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program, since people can sign up for those programs all year long.

 

[riverman]

A dictator is not defined by how he leaves office, but by the fact he creates and changes the laws without interference from others.
It is yet to be determined how Obama leaves office.

If he were a dictator, The republican party members would be in jail or exiled to Mexico and my point is, in our country, we've impeached presidents and risen to the cause during times like the dust bowl era.

 

[Denny Crane]

If he were a dictator, The republican party members would be in jail or exiled to Mexico and my point is, in our country, we've impeached presidents and risen to the cause during times like the dust bowl era.

Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini were all elected.

 

[MarAzul]

If he were a dictator, The republican party members would be in jail or exiled to Mexico and my point is, in our country, we've impeached presidents and risen to the cause during times like the dust bowl era.

Obama is the latest generation of the breed. He just ignores the Republicans while his minion shield him from impeachment. It might not work through his last 2 years.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://thehill.com/blogs/regwatch/a...ms-vast-amount-of-discretion-in-enforcing-law

Holder claims 'vast amount' of discretion in enforcing federal laws

“There is a vast amount of discretion that a president has — and more specifically that an attorney general has,” Holder responded. “But that discretion has to be used in an appropriate way so that your acting consistent with the aims of the statute but at the same time making sure that you are acting in a way that is consistent with our values, consistent with the Constitution and protecting the American people."

Republicans on the panel grilled Holder on the Obama administration’s decision not to interfere with marijuana legalization efforts in Colorado and elsewhere, as long as states establish adequate regulations.

Goodlatte criticized the decision, saying it is tantamount to ignoring the law.

“The Justice Department’s decision not to enforce the Controlled Substances Act in states whose laws violate federal law is not a valid exercise of prosecutorial discretion, but a formal department-wide policy of selective non-enforcement of an Act of Congress,” Goodlatte said.

 

[MarAzul]

If he were a dictator, The republican party members would be in jail or exiled to Mexico and my point is, in our country, we've impeached presidents and risen to the cause during times like the dust bowl era.

Oh by the way, you should listen to some the hair raising tales many Republicans can now tell about their personal relationship with the US government including the IRS, ATF, OSHA, FCC, BLM, DoA, FBI.
Some of them now have a current relationship with ALL of these agencies. It definitely seems like a Dictatorship to many of these people.

 

[MarAzul]

Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini were all elected.

True and all left boots on. err, left while holding office.

 

[riverman]

Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini were all elected.

Yes they were, then they imprisoned or killed all their competition, thus making them dictators. John Boehner was still alive last time I checked. So is Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter. Just a tad more lenient don't you think?

 

[Further]

No more or less than during the Bush presidency.

 

[riverman]

Well, last gasp #2 for me. Thanks for the discourse and I do take time to reflect on all your views whether I agree or not. It's just time to find the Daffy Duck thread that I know must be on this forum somewhere and enjoy a day off without an armband.

 

[MarAzul]

Yes they were, then they imprisoned or killed all their competition, thus making them dictators. John Boehner was still alive last time I checked. So is Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter. Just a tad more lenient don't you think?

Does that make Barrack the most decent dictator in history?