A heretical thought / And something about Orlando (1 Viewer)

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Bingo Bango said:
This is the kind of thing that weakens everything you say, because it’s so obviously untrue. No one on this board hates Lillard. I certainly don’t. I love the guy and I’m grateful for everything he’s done for Portland. But I’m also a realist, and I don’t see any trade out there that can make Portland a title-contender next season.
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There isn't a single trade for a single player that can make us a contender next season.

I don't think anybody is saying there is.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There isn't a single trade for a single player that can make us a contender next season.

I don't think anybody is saying there is.
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but posters are advocating trading for Embiid, which would take the #3 plus emptying the roster of most everything of value but Dame plus several future 1sts... are they taking that position in hopes the team is mediocre?

Regardless, add an s to the end of trade in the post you quoted and you no longer need to split this hair.

STOMP
 
PtldPlatypus said:
It can be easily argued that those who call Dame a no-defense selfish player are "haters". Some would even say that those who say Dame can't be the best player on a championship team are "haters".

Being a "hater" doesn't actually mean you hate him.
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oh please. At the very least in this case it's needlessly inflammatory language trying to demean those he disagrees with about building around Dame as overly emotional and not reality based.

There is no player ever without weaknesses. Pointing to a weakness of a great player instead of pretending it doesn't exist isn't hating on the guy, it's realistically looking at them and what they bring to the team. In the end it is a team game and you need multiple talents that mesh to win, guys who compliment each other & cover weaknesses. For me anyway, the whole point of participating in a forum is to have discussions about what I'm interested in. I'd much rather the back and forths be reality based instead of personal attacks.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
but posters are advocating trading for Embiid, which would take the #3 plus emptying the roster of most everything of value but Dame plus several future 1sts... are they taking that position in hopes the team is mediocre?

Regardless, add an s to the end of trade in the post you quoted and you no longer need to split this hair.

STOMP
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I think there are multiple trades we could make which could make us a contender with Dame, depending on the development of some of our younger guys. We'll have to do everything just right... but it's not impossible.

But I've heard this "there is no trade that makes Portland a contender next season" argument a lot, even at the national level. And I'm not sure why. Nobody has said it needs to be a single trade, and nobody has said we need to be a contender next season.
 
I don’t understand why this argument about “building around Dame” is even a thing. There is no argument that it’s going to be the course the Blazers are taking this summer. Cronin said with no uncertainty in his interview after the deadline that the team is committed to building a contender around Dame. He said Jody is committed to it. He said that they are going to push all of their chips in to make it happen. We can, and do, have varying opinions about whether that’s smart or whether it’s likely to succeed. We can have varying opinions about exactly what that means, especially given the fact that the Blazers’ draft position has been enhanced since the time Cronin said those things. But, this endless debate about trading Dame is stupid. It’s not happening unless he lets it be known that he wants out. From everything he’s said, that’s not happening unless the team does an about face and moves towards a total rebuild.
 
e_blazer said:
I don’t understand why this argument about “building around Dame” is even a thing. There is no argument that it’s going to be the course the Blazers are taking this summer. Cronin said with no uncertainty in his interview after the deadline that the team is committed to building a contender around Dame. He said Jody is committed to it. He said that they are going to push all of their chips in to make it happen. We can, and do, have varying opinions about whether that’s smart or whether it’s likely to succeed. We can have varying opinions about exactly what that means, especially given the fact that the Blazers’ draft position has been enhanced since the time Cronin said those things. But, this endless debate about trading Dame is stupid. It’s not happening unless he lets it be known that he wants out. From everything he’s said, that’s not happening unless the team does an about face and moves towards a total rebuild.
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Translation: "I believe the official line implicitly and I don't like you straying from it"
 
Phatguysrule said:
I think there are multiple trades we could make which could make us a contender with Dame, depending on the development of some of our younger guys. We'll have to do everything just right... but it's not impossible.

But I've heard this "there is no trade that makes Portland a contender next season" argument a lot, even at the national level. And I'm not sure why. Nobody has said it needs to be a single trade, and nobody has said we need to be a contender next season.
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It is funny how many "talking heads," thought that one trade could make Phoenix and Dallas both contenders.....
but one trade can't make Portland a contender? Not sure I see much of a difference between Dame, Doncic, or Booker. Those teams gave up too much for an older piece of the puzzle. We need to make sure we don't.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
It can be easily argued that those who call Dame a no-defense selfish player are "haters". Some would even say that those who say Dame can't be the best player on a championship team are "haters".
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I’ve never said either of those things.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I think there are multiple trades we could make which could make us a contender with Dame, depending on the development of some of our younger guys. We'll have to do everything just right... but it's not impossible.

But I've heard this "there is no trade that makes Portland a contender next season" argument a lot, even at the national level. And I'm not sure why. Nobody has said it needs to be a single trade, and nobody has said we need to be a contender next season.
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Exactly! It's about multiple moves, for which Joe has said needed to happen, and why all the need for flexibility had to happen. Now , i'm on board with drafting at #3 after feeling like it had to be traded, but i feel another deal to get a very good veteran like DeMar DeRozan is a necessity. And adding a quality veteran player to the bench. I think acquiring DeMar could also be involved in a package to free up future draft capital, which can help facilitate more moves to enhance the roster.
There are no superteams. Dame is a very special talent. But he needs size around him . Add another 2 way wing that actually can shoot and play defense ( Miller?), and add a 2 way vet like DeRozan who is one of the best mid range shooters in the game. He also gets to the FT line a ton. Then a marksmen potentially through trade of future pick and this team starts to look very different, and potentially lethal.
 
e_blazer said:
Cronin said with no uncertainty that the team is committed to building a contender around Dame . . . This endless debate about trading Dame is stupid.
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I disagree. GMs say all kinds of things, and they also change their minds. Whatever the case, it’s a subject worth discussing. I’ve seen multiple reports that teams are waiting to see what Portland does with Lillard. Woj reported it’s the single most important event this off-season. All the other GMs have heard what we’ve heard, and yet they’re waiting to see what Portland actually does. When Cronin said they were “all-in” on keeping Lillard, he may have been spouting the company line, or he may have been overly optimistic about what they could get. Yes, Portland may keep Lillard, or they may go in another direction. It’s unknown so far, and worth talking about.
 
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tykendo said:
Exactly! It's about multiple moves, for which Joe has said needed to happen, and why all the need for flexibility had to happen. Now , i'm on board with drafting at #3 after feeling like it had to be traded, but i feel another deal to get a very good veteran like DeMar DeRozan is a necessity. And adding a quality veteran player to the bench. I think acquiring DeMar could also be involved in a package to free up future draft capital, which can help facilitate more moves to enhance the roster.
There are no superteams. Dame is a very special talent. But he needs size around him . Add another 2 way wing that actually can shoot and play defense ( Miller?), and add a 2 way vet like DeRozan who is one of the best mid range shooters in the game. He also gets to the FT line a ton. Then a marksmen potentially through trade of future pick and this team starts to look very different, and potentially lethal.
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Is there ever going to be a need for a rebounder, banger down low? With all of these wings we will need two basketballs and shoot 75% because we will have no size or ability to rebound at all. But playing four wings with Lillard would be interesting to watch for a while. And no, Grant is not a rebounder. He is a wing.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
It is funny how many "talking heads," thought that one trade could make Phoenix and Dallas both contenders.....
but one trade can't make Portland a contender? Not sure I see much of a difference between Dame, Doncic, or Booker. Those teams gave up too much for an older piece of the puzzle. We need to make sure we don't.
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I think Joe and his staff will make multiple moves instead of putting all their eggs in one basket.

They've said as much. But they have to get the #3 pick right. Meaning whether it's Scoot or Miller, that pick has to reap rewards immediately. Now i could see where Scoot could work., if you acquire a DeMar DeRozan with another move. Nurk, Grant, DeRozan, Sharpe, and Dame starting 5. Scoot , Watford, Thybulle, Eubanks and an acquired marksmen as second 5.

But i think a starting unit of Nurk, Miller, Grant, DeRozan, and Dame is better. Sharpe in 6th man role.
 
BIG Q said:
Is there ever going to be a need for a rebounder, banger down low? With all of these wings we will need two basketballs and shoot 75% because we will have no size or ability to rebound at all. But playing four wings with Lillard would be interesting to watch for a while. And no, Grant is not a rebounder. He is a wing.
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I guess i'm counting on Nurk, I know, to be the double double guy he can be. That's why Miller , to me, should be the pick if available.
 
Miller , next to Nurk, has potential for 18 to 20 rebounds per. game consistently .
 
Nurk , a big 6-11, Miller 6 - 9, Grant 6 - 8 , is a nice sized frontcourt.
 
BIG Q said:
Is there ever going to be a need for a rebounder, banger down low? With all of these wings we will need two basketballs and shoot 75% because we will have no size or ability to rebound at all. But playing four wings with Lillard would be interesting to watch for a while. And no, Grant is not a rebounder. He is a wing.
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We definitely need rebounding. Honestly, that's the main reason Nurk is so valuable to us.
 
If we were to get Miller instead of Scoot, I am fine with. But he is a wing as well. I seriously have no idea if he can be relied upon to be a primary rebounder like Nurk, who is always injured, unreliable and pouty. Fixing our center position and getting a rebounding, defending PF are high on my list and can be addressed via free agency, TPE or trade of Nurk, Nas, Ant.
 
BIG Q said:
If we were to get Miller instead of Scoot, I am fine with. But he is a wing as well. I seriously have no idea if he can be relied upon to be a primary rebounder like Nurk, who is always injured, unreliable and pouty. Fixing our center position and getting a rebounding, defending PF are high on my list and can be addressed via free agency, TPE or trade of Nurk, Nas, Ant.
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I just don't think that will happen. IMO Scoot will either be gone by the time we pick or we will take him. I can't see him slipping to 4th.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I just don't think that will happen. IMO Scoot will either be gone by the time we pick or we will take him. I can't see him slipping to 4th.
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Agreed, I was illustrating that I have no idea which player between Miller/Scoot they will select. I am fine with either as we have no control over the situation. In the post I was referring to, the subject of Millers rebounding abilities were the discussion. I have no idea if Miller can be relied upon as a good rebounder.
 
wizenheimer said:
geeeezuzz...If Orlando is willing to trade both 6 & 11 for Simons, I don't much care what else they send. Gary Harris is fine; I prefer Bol Bol rather than Anthony though

Simons for #6 + #11 + Harris + Bol...sign me up
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With this as an option I wonder what kind of 3-team deals we could work. Opens up a world of possibilities...
 
Bingo Bango said:
I disagree. GMs say all kinds of things, and they also change their minds. Whatever the case, it’s a subject worth discussing. I’ve seen multiple reports that teams are waiting to see what Portland does with Lillard. Woj reported it’s the single most important event this off-season. All the other GMs have heard what we’ve heard, and yet they’re waiting to see what Portland actually does. When Cronin said they were “all-in” on keeping Lillard, he may have been spouting the company line, or he may have been overly optimistic about what they could get. Yes, Portland may keep Lillard, or they may go in another direction. It’s unknown so far, and worth talking about.
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In my generally worthless opinion, the only way the Blazers switch from building around Dame is if it proves infeasible to do so this summer. If they get to the point where the options they have available in the way of trades for an impact player just don’t provide the core they want, and they and Dame agree that it’s just not going to happen, then they would likely switch tactics and find a good deal for him.
 
wizenheimer said:
geeeezuzz...If Orlando is willing to trade both 6 & 11 for Simons, I don't much care what else they send. Gary Harris is fine; I prefer Bol Bol rather than Anthony though

Simons for #6 + #11 + Harris + Bol...sign me up
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If Cronin could pull off that deal, I'd be completely floored.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Translation: "I believe the official line implicitly and I don't like you straying from it"
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Just curious; what do you think the Blazers would have to gain by saying that they are fully committed to rebuilding around Dame and then, perhaps after reading all of the brilliant advocacy around this place about trading him, suddenly announce, “Hey, we were just kidding”?
 
e_blazer said:
In my generally worthless opinion, the only way the Blazers switch from building around Dame is if it proves infeasible to do so this summer. If they get to the point where the options they have available in the way of trades for an impact player just don’t provide the core they want, and they and Dame agree that it’s just not going to happen, then they would likely switch tactics and find a good deal for him.
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I would agree. However, I think that's highly unlikely. I don't think Dame is demanding a team that will be favored to win a championship. In fact, I don't think there is an opportunity to deal him into that situation without significantly hurting our future.

I think he just wants the opportunity to be in the mix, rather than missing the playoffs or first round and out for the rest of his career.
 
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