A heretical thought / And something about Orlando

[STOMP]

Did anybody fault Jordan for wearing Nikes? Or Jump Man brand?
No, it doesn't bother me at all. Dame could have made roster demands any time he wanted to. Dame was on board with drafting Sharpe when he saw what other teams were offering. He's the best player we've ever had. He should be on board with everything we do or we shouldn't be doing it.

Speak for yourself. I am not on board with this thinking at all and you know for sure that many die hards here aren't either.

Dame isn't the GM and I don't root for the Lillard Trailblazers. I root for the Portland Trailblazers. I want the GM of my rooting interest to do whats best for the franchise not any one player, and whats best for the franchise is competing at the highest level and winning championships. If a player isn't down with the direction of the team, fine. Albeit with a terrible GM in Olshey, they repeatedly bent over backwards making one bad short term decision after another flailing (but trying) to put a decent team around him and now he's publicly demanding they do it again? If I'm management, I'm playing nice publicly but I'm absolutely exploring all options and then selecting the one that improves the team the most regardless of the timeline. I'm only pushing all the chips into the center on a short term play if I'm sure the move(s) will have my team among the elite of the league not some milktoast maybe make it to the 2nd round collection of fading 30 year olds so Dame doesn't say mean things about me crap like you're promoting.

STOMP

 

[e_blazer]

Well sure, that would be fantastic. If they can get Brown or Bridges without giving up #3, that would be amazing. I'm not going to hold my breath, but I would love that.

Did I say Brown or Bridges? I don’t think you can get those guys WITH #3. I said All-Star level. Guys like OG, DeRozan, etc. are more what could be done without including #3. Guys who can be solid place holders until Miller matures.

 

[THE HCP]

Don't make me watch that video to know what the idea is.
I kinda like the idea of getting the #6 pick and drafting both Thompson twins...

The idea of this makes me want you to …….. wait for it…… HOLD ME NOW!

 

[andalusian]

Sure it bothers me, but I just want people to be clear on where Dame stands right now. He was VERY clear on his feelings.

Some points:

1. No-one but Dame knows where he stands right now - anyone that claims they know are just deluding themselves.

2. The video linked was the one before the lottery. Dame, I am sure, assumed the pick will bring a normal #5 - #8 draft pick. He clearly had the same idea last year but changed his mind about Shae after seeing him and talking to him etc... So, the combination of going up to a #3 pick in a draft where there is supposed to be a drop off after the 3rd pick is a change, and there is a good chance he has changed his mind after seeing some of these workouts.

So, I am sure Dame would want to have more vets on the roster. I am also sure he is smart enough to understand that without a huge trade that brings a proven all-star vet, a high-pick rookie might help as much as another vet that is not that can't miss all-star caliber.

I am not going to assume anything about what Dame's mindset is right now. It was pretty clear that he has no taste for another year with this roster with a normal non-must-have pick even if it is in the #5-#8 range.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The idea of this makes me want you to …….. wait for it…… HOLD ME NOW!

I've been buying "Best of" CDs of the early 80s hits of the charts of my youth to play in the car for my kid (yes, my 2014 Prius has a CD player), and after great successes with The Human League and OMD I tried the Thompson Twins. JESUS they were shit. I think their breakthrough UK single "Love On Your Side" is half decent, but it gets SO repetitive SO quickly. Mind you, so does the best of the Cars, although they do have about three good songs. Gives me new appreciation for the Cure and Depeche Mode.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Speak for yourself. I am not on board with this thinking at all and you know for sure that many die hards here aren't either.

I was speaking for myself. You can tell because I said "me" in the post.

Dame isn't the GM and I don't root for the Lillard Trailblazers. I root for the Portland Trailblazers. I want the GM of my rooting interest to do whats best for the franchise not any one player, and whats best for the franchise is competing at the highest level and winning championships. If a player isn't down with the direction of the team, fine. Albeit with a terrible GM in Olshey, they repeatedly bent over backwards making one bad short term decision after another flailing (but trying) to put a decent team around him and now he's publicly demanding they do it again?

There is no evidence Olshey was catering to any of Dame's demands, aside from putting his shitty cousin as the last player on the bench. That's why Dame went over Olshey's head twice to voice his concerns.

If I'm management, I'm playing nice publicly but I'm absolutely exploring all options and then selecting the one that improves the team the most, regardless of the timeline.

Of course.

I'm only pushing all the chips into the center on a short term play if I'm sure the move(s) will have my team among the elite of the league not some milktoast maybe make it to the 2nd round collection of fading 30 year olds so Dame doesn't say mean things about me crap like you're promoting.
STOMP

And I've promoted nothing of the sort. I've consistently said I fully expect them to make the best deal to improve the team the most. It just so happens, that more than likely includes keeping Dame.

 

[STOMP]

I was speaking for myself. You can tell because I said "me" in the post.

"He's the best player we've ever had. He should be on board with everything we do or we shouldn't be doing it"

this reads.... We're so lucky to have had the honor of drafting him and paying him bazillions to stay that we should do whatever he wants regardless of what it is. Of course everything anyone writes is at least in part their opinion, but you are taking on the voice of the masses with the constant WE theme but we don't agree on everything let along this

There is no evidence Olshey was catering to any of Dame's demands, aside from putting his shitty cousin as the last player on the bench. That's why Dame went over Olshey's head twice to voice his concerns.

take off the blinders. They didn't trade away two 1st round picks for Roco because it was in the long term best interests of the team, they were trying to go for it in the short term with Dame. Prior to that, lacking forwards (and any sense) they way overpaid Evan Turner to come to PDX to go for it with Dame. They consistently drafted for positions of need rather then BPA.

I've promoted nothing of the sort. I've consistently said I fully expect them to make the best deal to improve the team the most. It just so happens, that more than likely includes keeping Dame.

your previous quote reads just the opposite... here it is

I think he just wants the opportunity to be in the mix, rather than missing the playoffs or first round and out for the rest of his career.

Regardless of what you thought you were writing, thats how it reads.

Every athlete wants to win championships & every athlete also wants to get paid as much as possible. Dame got his dollars and now he wants to call the team's shots to maximizes his ability to win a championship over the team's as the team obviously has an endless window. Maybe you and I aren't that far apart, but I feel I'm much more willing to call his bluff and go with whatever option serves the team's best option to do this, well over his. As I analyze things, the Blazer roster is several very good players away from being contenders and Dame Time is nearing the finish line. It's going to take a near perfect convergence of choices and circumstances to get a championship with him... nearly lotto odds. To win in the next few years they'll need major improvements near everywhere even if Dame doesn't start to fade like pretty much every athlete in their mid 30s does. If Trader Joe can pull a magic rabbit transaction out of his ass, awesome! but it takes two to tango and most GM's aren't patsies. My best guess as to how to best swing for the fences with Lillard on board is to hit on the picks in hopes of adding multiple dudes who can contribute to a 2024-25 run. Hitting on picks is the best way to vault up several levels. Trading for established NBA players nearly always costs a premium.

STOMP

 

[Natebishop3]

Did I say Brown or Bridges? I don’t think you can get those guys WITH #3. I said All-Star level. Guys like OG, DeRozan, etc. are more what could be done without including #3. Guys who can be solid place holders until Miller matures.

OG has never been an All star. Is DDR still an All Star?

 

[blazerkor]

"He's the best player we've ever had. He should be on board with everything we do or we shouldn't be doing it"

this reads.... We're so lucky to have had the honor of drafting him and paying him bazillions to stay that we should do whatever he wants regardless of what it is. Of course everything anyone writes is at least in part their opinion, but you are taking on the voice of the masses with the constant WE theme but we don't agree on everything let along this


take off the blinders. They didn't trade away two 1st round picks for Roco because it was in the long term best interests of the team, they were trying to go for it in the short term with Dame. Prior to that, lacking forwards (and any sense) they way overpaid Evan Turner to come to PDX to go for it with Dame. They consistently drafted for positions of need rather then BPA.


your previous quote reads just the opposite... here it is


Regardless of what you thought you were writing, thats how it reads.

Every athlete wants to win championships & every athlete also wants to get paid as much as possible. Dame got his dollars and now he wants to call the team's shots to maximizes his ability to win a championship over the team's as the team obviously has an endless window. Maybe you and I aren't that far apart, but I feel I'm much more willing to call his bluff and go with whatever option serves the team's best option to do this, well over his. As I analyze things, the Blazer roster is several very good players away from being contenders and Dame Time is nearing the finish line. It's going to take a near perfect convergence of choices and circumstances to get a championship with him... nearly lotto odds. To win in the next few years they'll need major improvements near everywhere even if Dame doesn't start to fade like pretty much every athlete in their mid 30s does. If Trader Joe can pull a magic rabbit transaction out of his ass, awesome! but it takes two to tango and most GM's aren't patsies. My best guess as to how to best swing for the fences with Lillard on board is to hit on the picks in hopes of adding multiple dudes who can contribute to a 2024-25 run. Hitting on picks is the best way to vault up several levels. Trading for established NBA players nearly always costs a premium.

STOMP

We are so lucky to have had Dame. He has been loyal in a way that no other superstar has been to our team and especially in this era. I don't want him making personnel decisions but I don't mind him being consulted on them. I still want to try and put the best team around him that he has had and see what he can do with it. If our front office doesn't think that's possible then we should move on from Dame but that will be fucking sad because that guy more than anyone else has given this team everything he has.

 

[cheesehoff]

I will be very unhappy if they deal away their future for slightly elevated mediocrity just to appease Dame. If that’s what happens it will absolutely tarnish his legacy as I know I’ve plenty of company with this view

STOMP

Not only tarnish his legacy, it will be a repeat of all the bad moves NO made that put us in cap hell and also left them with no picks. 3 years from now they will have a couple early playoff exits, Dame will have minimal trade value, they'll have a few overpaid vets that didn't make a difference and they'll have traded their picks and young talent for nothing.
Then, a few years later, we'll be talking about how to build around Sharpe with no picks, paying our star $70m a year and a roster full of role players. Rinsed and repeated.

 

[e_blazer]

OG has never been an All star. Is DDR still an All Star?

All-Star level. OG is a killer defender. DDR still has game. And the “etc.” means those are examples and not an exclusive list.

Damn.

 

[Natebishop3]

All-Star level. OG is a killer defender. DDR still has game. And the “etc.” means those are examples and not an exclusive list.

Damn.

Not sure why you’re responding like this. I said I would love to see your scenario come to pass. I wasn’t being sarcastic.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Somehow you got 9 pages out of this one?

 

[wizenheimer]

Is DDR still an All Star?

yes, he was this season, and last season...two years in a row when he averaged 26-5-5 with a PER around 22.0 and a .590 TS%.

between DDR, Bridges, Siakam, and Brown, DDR had the best PER, TS%, winshare, and winshare/48 marks and was 2nd to Siakam in BPM. Brown was last in all five categories

 

[Natebishop3]

yes, he was this season, and last season...two years in a row when he averaged 26-5-5 with a PER around 22.0 and a .590 TS%.

between DDR, Bridges, Siakam, and Brown, DDR had the best PER, TS%, winshare, and winshare/48 marks and was 2nd to Siakam in BPM. Brown was last in all five categories

Well there you go.

 

[cheesehoff]

Is the compromise to pick the guy at #3 that most resembles Sharpe's peripheral's (demeanor, willingness to listen, talent level) to appease Dame and build for the future? Who is that guy?
I don't see that guy at #3. I still think the best compromise is moving Ant for #6, #11 and a vet or two...Harris, Isaac, Okeke?
If they select Scoot at #3, something big will follow. There's no way they pick Scoot and keep Dame or Ant unless there are absolutely no other options.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The best player of all time did not play GM. He did not give ultimatums to management, at least publicly, which would hurt the teams leverage in trades.

The best player of all time didn't have to. He had a championship caliber team within a few years.

 

[STOMP]

We are so lucky to have had Dame. He has been loyal in a way that no other superstar has been to our team and especially in this era. I don't want him making personnel decisions but I don't mind him being consulted on them. I still want to try and put the best team around him that he has had and see what he can do with it. If our front office doesn't think that's possible then we should move on from Dame but that will be fucking sad because that guy more than anyone else has given this team everything he has.

Many years ago I was banging my head against the wall while this board cheered Neil rearranging the deck chairs with one pathetic offseason after another wasting the window of opportunity with Dame. Here we are today where I view it as the longest of longshots for them to put together a contender with him and yet most of the board still largely wants to do short term sell offs. To contend with Dame all they need is big upgrades at Center, one forward spot and for Sharpe to improve exponentially.

Sad? For me that ship sailed a while back. I'm hoping to move forward with a plan, plant some quality seeds and someday be in the mix again

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

Well there you go.

Yeah, I've been yanking the DDR idea out of my colon, but I just think he's actually a realistic target (as the Bulls seemed prime to tear it down), still a really good player with versatility and wing ability, a veteran that will satisfy Dame to a large degree, a trade that could get all of Portland's picks back and the only future mortgaged would be Ant (a needed change), and would allow the Blazers to add a player at 3 increasing future upside. Kind of a win all the way around in my view

 

[e_blazer]

Not sure why you’re responding like this. I said I would love to see your scenario come to pass. I wasn’t being sarcastic.

Sorry, I thought that you were being sarcastic. My bad.

 

[cheesehoff]

(as the Bulls seemed prime to tear it down)

If so, I would want Caruso as much as anyone else on that roster.

 

[Phatguysrule]

"He's the best player we've ever had. He should be on board with everything we do or we shouldn't be doing it"

this reads.... We're so lucky to have had the honor of drafting him and paying him bazillions to stay that we should do whatever he wants regardless of what it is. Of course everything anyone writes is at least in part their opinion, but you are taking on the voice of the masses with the constant WE theme but we don't agree on everything let along this

LMAO. Try replacing "we" with "I" or "me" and that paragraph wouldn't work.

Nice try though. I was very clearly speaking of my opinion when I opened by saying it doesn't bother "me".

take off the blinders. They didn't trade away two 1st round picks for Roco because it was in the long term best interests of the team, they were trying to go for it in the short term with Dame. Prior to that, lacking forwards (and any sense) they way overpaid Evan Turner to come to PDX to go for it with Dame. They consistently drafted for positions of need rather then BPA.

And where is the evidence Dame demanded any of that? There is none. it's not Dame's job to pick players. You just keep him in the loop.

They were just shitty moves by a shitty GM trying not to look like he was wasting the career of a superstar. Which is exactly what he was doing.

your previous quote reads just the opposite... here it is


Regardless of what you thought you were writing, thats how it reads.

Every athlete wants to win championships & every athlete also wants to get paid as much as possible. Dame got his dollars and now he wants to call the team's shots to maximizes his ability to win a championship over the team's as the team obviously has an endless window. Maybe you and I aren't that far apart, but I feel I'm much more willing to call his bluff and go with whatever option serves the team's best option to do this, well over his. As I analyze things, the Blazer roster is several very good players away from being contenders and Dame Time is nearing the finish line. It's going to take a near perfect convergence of choices and circumstances to get a championship with him... nearly lotto odds. To win in the next few years they'll need major improvements near everywhere even if Dame doesn't start to fade like pretty much every athlete in their mid 30s does. If Trader Joe can pull a magic rabbit transaction out of his ass, awesome! but it takes two to tango and most GM's aren't patsies. My best guess as to how to best swing for the fences with Lillard on board is to hit on the picks in hopes of adding multiple dudes who can contribute to a 2024-25 run. Hitting on picks is the best way to vault up several levels. Trading for established NBA players nearly always costs a premium.

STOMP

And that's exactly what I've said I think we'll do as well. If a great trade can be worked out, great.

But either way, we're better with Dame than without him. We're not going to get an offer that replaces Dame's production anytime soon.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Many years ago I was banging my head against the wall while this board cheered Neil rearranging the deck chairs with one pathetic offseason after another wasting the window of opportunity with Dame. Here we are today where I view it as the longest of longshots for them to put together a contender with him and yet most of the board still largely wants to do short term sell offs. To contend with Dame all they need is big upgrades at Center, one forward spot and for Sharpe to improve exponentially.

Sad? For me that ship sailed a while back. I'm hoping to move forward with a plan, plant some quality seeds and someday be in the mix again

STOMP

And there are deals out there that can deliver those. Can Cronin get those deals? Can he do it while retaining a bench?

Don't know, but it'll be fun finding out.

 

[Bingo Bango]

[Lillard] is much like Harden in the fact he needs the ball in his hands from one end of the court to the other. It is really hard to get role players to play in that system, but it is even harder to get top level players to do so and he needs that around him like most stars do in order to win it.

I made this point recently, and I do think there’s some truth to it. There’s a reason why no top level player has joined Lillard in Portland in the last ten years. Cronin may be able to get one in a trade, but you won’t see one come here as a free agent, or ask to be traded here.

 

[Bingo Bango]

Just curious; what do you think the Blazers would have to gain by saying that they are fully committed to rebuilding around Dame and then, perhaps after reading all of the brilliant advocacy around this place about trading him, suddenly announce, “Hey, we were just kidding”?

Not sure how long you’ve been a Blazer fan, but this franchise has made many questionable moves over the years. Walter Berry, anyone? LaRue Martin? Sam Bowie? Greg Oden? A gargantuan trade for Kiki Vandewegh? My point is, Portland fans are so used to these screwups that they have a very deep tolerance for anything, and I don’t think they would be that upset if Lillard were traded for a package of high draft picks and some promising young players. Besides, the Blazers are the only game in town. Fans have nothing else to do but keep showing up.

 

[STOMP]

LMAO. Try replacing "we" with "I" or "me" and that paragraph wouldn't work. Nice try though. I was very clearly speaking of my opinion when I opened by saying it doesn't bother "me".

Nice try? whatever dude. Thats how it reads... but you do you. It's always sad when fans in talking about the team refer to them as We. As far as representing your opinion, you have nothing to do with them or anyone else. You're just you, watching them. We aren't consulted. We're just talking.

And where is the evidence Dame demanded any of that? There is none. it's not Dame's job to pick players. You just keep him in the loop. They were just shitty moves by a shitty GM trying not to look like he was wasting the career of a superstar. Which is exactly what he was doing.

"This offseason after Lillard turned 30, he met with Blazers’ top executive Neil Olshey and urged him to “go for it” in the team’s pursuit for a championship. That mentality played a role in Olshey trading two first-round picks for Robert Covington, trading for Enes Kanter, and signing noted defender Derrick Jones Jr."

https://theathletic.com/2428871/202...d-bradley-beal-trail-blazers-wizards-loyalty/

That pressure from their star was found after literally 3 minutes of digging... the google machine still works. Players available when those picks came up included Tyrese Maxey, Jayden McDaniels, Desmond Bane & Herb Jones. You are only kidding yourself if you don't think the guy Olshey constantly referred to as the guy he was building the team around wasn't regularly consulted on team moves throughout his time in PDX.

But either way, we're better with Dame than without him. We're not going to get an offer that replaces Dame's production anytime soon.

With a healthy Dame balling out last year, the Blazers sucked again. That they didn't/don't have nearly enough talent was laid bare, but lets do the same thing and expect different results? On improving the team, I'm not stuck to one view point like you clearly are. Hell, I'm open to Shaedon trade talk. I'm definitely for trading the #3 for the right price too. The obvious issue with Dame and the Blazers going forward is the conflicting timelines. Historically best route to adding talent is hitting on draft picks, but thats not easy either and a team usually has to exercise some patience while Dame Time is running out. Not knowing the particulars of whats available in the trade market, I see many talented players in this draft...

STOMP

 

[BankTeller]

Is the compromise to pick the guy at #3 that most resembles Sharpe's peripheral's (demeanor, willingness to listen, talent level) to appease Dame and build for the future? Who is that guy?
I don't see that guy at #3. I still think the best compromise is moving Ant for #6, #11 and a vet or two...Harris, Isaac, Okeke?
If they select Scoot at #3, something big will follow. There's no way they pick Scoot and keep Dame or Ant unless there are absolutely no other options.

None of the ORL "vets" are impactful. I was big on Isaac but he's no longer worth the headache. Okeke's not even good. Harris would be able to contribute but isn't worth moving down from #3. Any trade down with ORL needs to include WCJ at a minimum.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

None of the ORL "vets" are impactful. I was big on Isaac but he's no longer worth the headache. Okeke's not even good. Harris would be able to contribute but isn't worth moving down from #3. Any trade down with ORL needs to include WCJ at a minimum.

He wasn't talking about moving down from 3. He's referencing the Orlando fan video suggesting Ant alone is worth 6/11/filler. Which seems insane to me.

 

[STOMP]

None of the ORL "vets" are impactful. I was big on Isaac but he's no longer worth the headache. Okeke's not even good. Harris would be able to contribute but isn't worth moving down from #3. Any trade down with ORL needs to include WCJ at a minimum.

I don't know, 6 & 11 for 3 would be very tempting to me.

STOMP

 

[e_blazer]

Not sure how long you’ve been a Blazer fan, but this franchise has made many questionable moves over the years. Walter Berry, anyone? LaRue Martin? Sam Bowie? Greg Oden? A gargantuan trade for Kiki Vandewegh? My point is, Portland fans are so used to these screwups that they have a very deep tolerance for anything, and I don’t think they would be that upset if Lillard were traded for a package of high draft picks and some promising young players. Besides, the Blazers are the only game in town. Fans have nothing else to do but keep showing up.

Been a fan since the beginning, so yeah, I remember the good and the bad.

I think you misunderstood my post. I was saying that the Blazers have nothing to gain by being misleading about their intentions about a rebuild around Dame. Cronin didn’t have to say anything about his plans going forward at the post-deadline interview. He could have just said something to the effect that all options are under review. He went out of his way to say that the team was fully committed to aggressively rebuilding around Dame. I don’t see anything to be gained by misleading fans and the league that way if the actual intent was going to be to dump Dame off for a big haul of assets for a rebuild.

I get that many folks want a full rebuild. Most others would understand the need to pivot that way if Cronin had said that he just doesn’t have the assets to get a competitive team reload around Dame done. But he went out of his way to say just the opposite. No reason to do that unless he means it.

I do find a bit of irony in your post, which seems to favor the rebuild, in that you point out a bunch of past roster mistakes by the organization. Why do you have faith in them to manage a full rebuild? Dump arguably the best player in team history, screw up the rebuild with dumb picks and trades, and the fans who are so in favor of the rebuild will be the first in line around Cronin’s house with torches and pitchforks.