Accept Miami Deal or bring Lillard to Camp?

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Assuming the Miami trade is the best offer; would you agree to this Miami trade or bring Dame back?

  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
SharpesTriumph said:
Blazers should insist, Heat don't have many assets so yes they need to empty them.

2028 2030 picks
2027 2029 swaps
Herro
Martin
Jovic
Jaquez

To close a deal I'd probably let the Heat keep any single player but we get everything else. It's still a poor return in a Lillard trade.

If the Heat don't even want to give that up; then bring Dame back. Rather risk he gets traded for worse or injured or who knows what than take a lesser return now of that already poor Miami package.

This shit Miami package with less than what I list is going to be available from now until the deadline. Better to wait and see what else becomes available and wait for December trade restrictions to end.
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Them figuring out how to get their 2024 pick tradeable and including it should be on the list. I realize that it will be a late first rounder but we all know those are valuable. That's what I would consider scrounging into every nook and cranny. The fact that the Heat don't feel a need to do that means that they don't feel like they need Dame but they've positioned themselves in a way that if they want to contend they now need someone like Dame.

Posturing on both sides.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Blazers should insist, Heat don't have many assets so yes they need to empty them.

2028 2030 picks
2027 2029 swaps
Herro
Martin
Jovic
Jaquez

To close a deal I'd probably let the Heat keep any single player but we get everything else. It's still a poor return in a Lillard trade.

If the Heat don't even want to give that up; then bring Dame back. Rather risk he gets traded for worse or injured or who knows what than take a lesser return now of that already poor Miami package.

This shit Miami package with less than what I list is going to be available from now until the deadline. Better to wait and see what else becomes available and wait for December trade restrictions to end.
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Even with all those players, the salaries don't match. (2 million short) Let alone letting them keep one of them. So yeah we might be better off waiting
 
blazerkor said:
Posturing on both sides.
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I don't think it's posturing on Portland's side; I think it's a line in the sand and Miami hasn't come close to approaching that line.

My thinking is that Riley has been low-balling from the start, convinced the inexperienced Cronin will blink first. And all the leaking by Riley and frustration out of Miami is because Cronin hasn't blinked even a little

I'd bet that the offer from Miami started at Herro + Robinson + 2028 first (top-4 protected) + 2030 first (lottery protected). Something ridiculous like that which explains why Portland hasn't shown any urgency to re-engage with the Heat. And that Miami hasn't upped their offer much at all. Miami may have explored trades for Herro but didn't find any team willing to part with a lightly protected 1st and a good player; or they told Portland to shop Herro themselves. I think Portland discovered the same poor market for Ant

my hunch is that the actions of Dame's agent, Dame, and Riley have really antagonized the Blazer front office making them unwilling to compromise. Good for them

blazerkor said:
Them figuring out how to get their 2024 pick tradeable and including it should be on the list. I realize that it will be a late first rounder but we all know those are valuable. .
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those late picks aren't that valuable, especially not for a top-10ish player. A 23rd pic for Hart...OK. A 27th pick for Dame...yuck

besides that, what if the rumors of OKC possibly being interested in a Dame trade themselves are true? If they are holding that as an option, they won't be cooperating with Miami to grease the wheels of a Dame-->Miami deal
 
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kjironman1 said:
I just do not see value in a Pick Swap.
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A pick swap is how the Celtics got Jason Tatum. A swap doesn't always provide value, but when it does the value can be massive!

Yes I'd say most likely the value will be 0 or very little - but it has a very real potential for much more. Especially in 2029, Dame/Butler will be 40 and Riley over 80. That team is emptying assets to win now and very possibly will fail to properly reload later. That is a great time for us to take a roll of the dice on house money, and can be held until that 2029 time or flipped for an upgrade earlier if the Blazers get closer to winning now.

What is the chance the Heat are in the lottery in 2029? Let's say 50/50 even with their aging core that I'd argue is more likely to be in the lottery than not by then. Let's say odds the Blazers are in the playoffs then is also around 50/50, some would argue higher as our youth now should be in their prime then. So that gives us a 25% chance the Blazers upgrade their late pick to a lottery pick, 12.5% chance Blazers swap to better lottery pick, 12.5% chance Blazers swap to better late pick, and 50% chance there is no swap.

One way to grade this is think of the value of the 2030 unprotected pick today. I'd put about 80% of the value of that pick being the chance its in the lottery especially at the top of the lottery. Lottery picks are worth SOOOO much more than a mid to late 1st round pick. The Blazers retain nearly all of those 80% lottery benefits the same in the swap as if they held the pick outright!

So yes the 2028 and 2030 picks are clearly worth more - but that 2029 swap still has the majority of the value of those picks.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Even with all those players, the salaries don't match. (2 million short) Let alone letting them keep one of them. So yeah we might be better off waiting
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Adding Nurk/Lowry would make the swap work, or just Lowry if there is a third team. Those two players are just rather irrelevant assets in such a big trade so I don't think it should change either side wanting to accept or walk from a deal.
 
wizenheimer said:
I don't think it's posturing on Portland's side; I think it's a line in the sand and Miami hasn't come close to approaching that line.

My thinking is that Riley has been low-balling from the start, convinced the inexperienced Cronin will blink first. And all the leaking by Riley and frustration out of Miami is because Cronin hasn't blinked even a little

I'd bet that the offer from Miami started at Herro + Robinson + 2028 first (top-4 protected) + 2030 first (lottery protected). Something ridiculous like that which explains why Portland hasn't shown any urgency to re-engage with the Heat. And that Miami hasn't upped their offer much at all. Miami may have explored trades for Herro but didn't find any team willing to part with a lightly protected 1st and a good player; or they told Portland to shop Herro themselves. I think Portland discovered the same poor market for Ant

my hunch is that the actions of Dame's agent, Dame, and Riley have really antagonized the Blazer front office making them unwilling to compromise. Good for them



those late picks aren't that valuable, especially not for a top-10ish player. A 23rd pic for Hart...OK. A 27th pick for Dame...yuck

besides that, what if the rumors of OKC possibly being interested in a Dame trade themselves are true? If they are holding that as an option, they won't be cooperating with Miami to grease the wheels of a Dame-->Miami deal
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Definitely think there is a chance this is true. If so then is Miami really even making a legit offer? Seems more like a Masai/Morey type of lopsided "offer" just to fleece another team. You would think that should call into question Dame's "one team" stance if that team isn't even making a realistic offer.

Maybe Miami plan is to increase their offer a bunch 48 hours before camp and make it look like they are now really giving up a lot even though its still a very poor return for the Blazers. They are trying to portray that coming offer as a lot by offering so little for all these months.

I hope Cronin and the Blazers hold firm - because if Miami is trying to push for something along those lines it really would be a travesty that will go down in Blazers history to agree to something like this.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Definitely think there is a chance this is true. If so then is Miami really even making a legit offer? Seems more like a Masai/Morey type of lopsided "offer" just to fleece another team. You would think that should call into question Dame's "one team" stance if that team isn't even making a realistic offer.

Maybe Miami plan is to increase their offer a bunch 48 hours before camp and make it look like they are now really giving up a lot even though its still a very poor return for the Blazers. They are trying to portray that coming offer as a lot by offering so little for all these months.

I hope Cronin and the Blazers hold firm - because if Miami is trying to push for something along those lines it really would be a travesty that will go down in Blazers history to agree to something like this.
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yep, offer 20 cents for an item worth one dollar then quadruple the offer to 80 cents to make it appear like you're now overpaying
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Definitely think there is a chance this is true. If so then is Miami really even making a legit offer? Seems more like a Masai/Morey type of lopsided "offer" just to fleece another team. You would think that should call into question Dame's "one team" stance if that team isn't even making a realistic offer.

Maybe Miami plan is to increase their offer a bunch 48 hours before camp and make it look like they are now really giving up a lot even though its still a very poor return for the Blazers. They are trying to portray that coming offer as a lot by offering so little for all these months.

I hope Cronin and the Blazers hold firm - because if Miami is trying to push for something along those lines it really would be a travesty that will go down in Blazers history to agree to something like this.
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I just think we need every pick and swap unprotected that they can "scrounge" up, we need a decent return for Herro from a third team and we need both of their prospects (Jovic and Jaquez)... to get that we would need to send Nurk along with Dame and also take back Lowry. If we can get Martin along with all of that we should but if that is on the table without Martin right before camp then we should pull the trigger. I think anything less, even haggling over protections on picks or swaps should be an automatic "fuck you" from Joe to whoever the fuck he deals with from the Heat (Elisburg or Riley).
 
blazerkor said:
I just think we need every pick and swap unprotected that they can "scrounge" up, we need a decent return for Herro from a third team and we need both of their prospects (Jovic and Jaquez)... to get that we would need to send Nurk along with Dame and also take back Lowry. If we can get Martin along with all of that we should but if that is on the table without Martin right before camp then we should pull the trigger. I think anything less, even haggling over protections on picks or swaps should be an automatic "fuck you" from Joe to whoever the fuck he deals with from the Heat (Elisburg or Riley).
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Agreed. I'm a bit hopeful this is Cronin thinking.

But I'm also legitimately worried with Cronin/Jody/Vulcan track record of negotiations first with the Clippers but later with other teams....... that we do something really stupid.
 
Freshtown said:
https://reddit.com/r/heat/s/8g31Ua3els
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That's interesting because I think all of this coming out right now probably means the teams are very close and we're just trying to squeeze them for every last bit that we can and they're just trying not to be squeezed.

Joe going radio silent on them for so long shows them that we don't care if this drags into the season and at that point we will take the best offer out there and that most likely won't be an offer the Heat can match. The Heat have to be feeling the pressure right now.
 
I would accept this deal only if Herro is converted into a very good package of players which I think isn't unlikely. Also, I have no interest in Jovic as he is soft and only takes outside shots. I would send him with Herro to another team. The picks in '27-'30 when Jimmy Butler is probably already retired, as well as Dame and they are going through rebuilding is not bad for us.
 
[morning coffee theory mode on]

about 3 months after Dame's trade request we still don't know the extent of what Miami has offered, but there are all kinds of signals that the offer hasn't come anywhere close to the max they could offer. Pretty clearly Riley has been low-balling

my guess is that it's something like Herro + Robinson + 2028 first (top-4 protected) + 2030 first (lottery protected); and maybe-maybe-not one of Jovic/Jaquez

now this latest little flurry of "it's getting-closer-leaks" could be because it's actually getting closer. But I'm cynical enough to believe it was engineered by Riley leaking to his media buddies in order to ratchet up pressure on Cronin. "hey look...we're actually trying here in Miami but the Blazers are being stubborn unreasonable assholes!"

[/morning coffee theory mode off]
 
wizenheimer said:
[morning coffee theory mode on]

about 3 months after Dame's trade request we still don't know the extent of what Miami has offered, but there are all kinds of signals that the offer hasn't come anywhere close to the max they could offer. Pretty clearly Riley has been low-balling

my guess is that it's something like Herro + Robinson + 2028 first (top-4 protected) + 2030 first (lottery protected); and maybe-maybe-not one of Jovic/Jaquez

now this latest little flurry of "it's getting-closer-leaks" could be because it's actually getting closer. But I'm cynical enough to believe it was engineered by Riley leaking to his media buddies in order to ratchet up pressure on Cronin. "hey look...we're actually trying here in Miami but the Blazers are being stubborn unreasonable assholes!"

[/morning coffee theory mode off]
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200w.gif

My two cents, I don't think the offer was probably ever that insulting but maybe close to that but who knows maybe it was even worse than that.

I do not think Joe waited all of this time or had a report leaked about the Heat scouring for every last thing, just to take a bad deal and it doesn't seam like the leaks are coming from Miami right now but if things cool off again and Dame's in camp then your cynicism is probably right.
 
wizenheimer said:
[morning coffee theory mode on]

about 3 months after Dame's trade request we still don't know the extent of what Miami has offered, but there are all kinds of signals that the offer hasn't come anywhere close to the max they could offer. Pretty clearly Riley has been low-balling

my guess is that it's something like Herro + Robinson + 2028 first (top-4 protected) + 2030 first (lottery protected); and maybe-maybe-not one of Jovic/Jaquez

now this latest little flurry of "it's getting-closer-leaks" could be because it's actually getting closer. But I'm cynical enough to believe it was engineered by Riley leaking to his media buddies in order to ratchet up pressure on Cronin. "hey look...we're actually trying here in Miami but the Blazers are being stubborn unreasonable assholes!"

[/morning coffee theory mode off]
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I don't know how Cronin could be feeling any pressure at all, honestly... Dame and his agent have handled this horribly, giving Cronin (basically) a pass on being stubborn.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't know how Cronin could be feeling any pressure at all, honestly... Dame and his agent have handled this horribly, giving Cronin (basically) a pass on being stubborn.
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in my caffeine-dream, I didn't say that Riley's tactic of trying to pressure Cronin would work. Clearly, Riley has been leaking like a sieve since July and it doesn't seem like it's had an impact except to convince Miami fans how unreasonable the Blazers are for not allowing Riley to steal Dame

what I did suggest in that dream is that right from the get-go Cronin might have known that Dame would be willing, but reluctant, to return the Portland. Cronin having that option in his back pocket has probably kept any feeling of urgency at bay. There might be a little now with the nearness of training camp. Maybe that's why we're getting some further rumors....now that all front offices are fully staffed Portland might be testing the waters of multi-team trades

but as I said, my cynicism makes me suspect Riley
 
Is it finally happening??? Can't wait to see the details of what we get!!!

Hopeful I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

A little concerned I'll be super upset.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Joe did a decent job. Best he could given his options. Not done yet. There are still sticking points
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The phrase "sticking points" is a clandestine signal among the world's top chefs. It signifies the precise moment when a soufflé has reached its ultimate state of fluffiness, at which point it threatens to transcend the boundaries of our known culinary universe. To prevent this culinary catastrophe, chefs must swiftly impale the soufflé with a tiny flagpole bearing the national flag of their choice. If they fail to do so, the soufflé could achieve sentience and embark on a quest for global domination.
 
Ha Seung-Boumtje-Boumjte said:
The phrase "sticking points" is a clandestine signal among the world's top chefs. It signifies the precise moment when a soufflé has reached its ultimate state of fluffiness, at which point it threatens to transcend the boundaries of our known culinary universe. To prevent this culinary catastrophe, chefs must swiftly impale the soufflé with a tiny flagpole bearing the national flag of their choice. If they fail to do so, the soufflé could achieve sentience and embark on a quest for global domination.
Click to expand...
Or the janitors are called in.
 
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