According to Canzano...

[Tince]

It's not like Brandon is doing nothing this summer. He's trying to improve for next year, and I'm sure he sees Bargnani getting 5 years worth of security and wonders why he can't get five years at just a few million/per more.

I never said he wasn't working on his game, I said he could have also found the time to engage himself in the Blazers' FA talks.

Personally, if I wanted to stay with a team for the next 6 years, and I had a chance to improve my teams chances of winning a championship by being proactive and offering my services in recruiting players, I would be all over it.

If I knew I wanted to bolt after 2 years, then I wouldn't.

 

[Tince]

Yeah, I'm sure if they had it their way.. especially Brandon's, I'm sure he'd rather do it in-house than out in the public, and same as KP and the franchise. That KJR interview Roy gave was just very un-Roy like in a way that it was about himself now instead of the team. A lot of it was his agent's doing, but I also believe Brandon would rather get this done and over with quickly.
And to get it over with quickly or accelerating the process would be just going out to the media about it.

I agree and my point is that he is willing to trade off what might be best for HIS team in the future for what is best for him right now. Either way, he was going to get his deal IMO, so I don't see the value in bring down the franchises image to speed up the process a couple weeks.

And if Roy really wanted it that way, he has the power to tell his agent to keep it out of the media.

 

[Ed O]

Taking it public is the only way Roy is going to get a five year max deal. He STILL might not get it, but unless he talks about it he can only sign what they put in front of him or play out his contract and become a free agent right at the expiration of the current CBA... or, of course, sign for less with another team and have it matched.

I don't blame Roy. He's not a savior and, as much as he likes Portland, it's his JOB to play basketball and make money. If he could get a five year max deal from Oklahoma City tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) if he'd take it.

Ed O.

 

[Tince]

Taking it public is the only way Roy is going to get a five year max deal. He STILL might not get it, but unless he talks about it he can only sign what they put in front of him or play out his contract and become a free agent right at the expiration of the current CBA... or, of course, sign for less with another team and have it matched.

I don't blame Roy. He's not a savior and, as much as he likes Portland, it's his JOB to play basketball and make money. If he could get a five year max deal from Oklahoma City tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) if he'd take it.

Ed O.

Unless you're a Blazer insider, that's quite the factual statement to make with no evidence. If the 4 year extension was the max Portland was willing to offer Roy, then I don't see how going to the media would change that. Either 4 years is the max they're willing to go or there is some wiggle room.

 

[BengalDuck]

Taking it public is the only way Roy is going to get a five year max deal. He STILL might not get it, but unless he talks about it he can only sign what they put in front of him or play out his contract and become a free agent right at the expiration of the current CBA... or, of course, sign for less with another team and have it matched.Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

Unless you're a Blazer insider, that's quite the factual statement to make with no evidence. If the 4 year extension was the max Portland was willing to offer Roy, then I don't see how going to the media would change that. Either 4 years is the max they're willing to go or there is some wiggle room.

But what is that wiggle room?

Please let me know how it's not binary: 4 years/max or 5 years/max.

Are you saying he'd prefer five years with more money overall but not maxed? I can't imagine that's the case.

Applying pressure to the Blazers is, in my opinion, the only leverage he has. Sitting out is not going to happen, and the Blazers know it. Playing out a pair of one year deals to become an UFA when the CBA is expiring is too large of a risk. Making a stink and getting some Portlanders fired up is the only way to get what he seems to want. That it damages (temporarily) the brand and/or may restrict future team moves isn't his concern, and I don't think that it should be.

Ed O.

 

[BengalDuck]

But what is that wiggle room?

Please let me know how it's not binary: 4 years/max or 5 years/max.

Are you saying he'd prefer five years with more money overall but not maxed? I can't imagine that's the case.

Applying pressure to the Blazers is, in my opinion, the only leverage he has. Sitting out is not going to happen, and the Blazers know it. Playing out a pair of one year deals to become an UFA when the CBA is expiring is too large of a risk. Making a stink and getting some Portlanders fired up is the only way to get what he seems to want. That it damages (temporarily) the brand and/or may restrict future team moves isn't his concern, and I don't think that it should be.

Ed O.

It's a negotiation that, in theory, could extend for up to two years. You're thinking Roy was backed in to a corner already and played his ace in the hole?

That's just ridiculous.

 

[Ed O]

It's a negotiation that, in theory, could extend for up to two years. You're thinking Roy was backed in to a corner already and played his ace in the hole?

That's just ridiculous.

What else can he do, right now, to get the max five year extension?

I'd be delighted to hear what your thoughts on that are.

He should just sit on his hands and be a good soldier? Hope that, over time, the team will decide to give him that final year at some point in the future?

The salary cap is probably going to precipitously decline next year. If he signs a max five year extension this time next year he might be costing himself $6m over the course of those five years (since the max contract will be lower this time next year). Why should he be quiet and watch that money simply disappear?

That is just ridiculous IMO.

Ed O.

 

[superdeluxe]

Here's what I'd like to know:

Is Brandon disappointed because he wants to be in Portland for a long time or is he disappointed because he wants to get paid what he feels he is worth (and I agree he's worth the max)?

He feels he has put in the time and work to earn that 5th year, he said that on the radio interview up in here in seattle, He seems genuinely frustrated at the process.

 

[hasoos]

What else can he do, right now, to get the max five year extension?

I'd be delighted to hear what your thoughts on that are.

He should just sit on his hands and be a good soldier? Hope that, over time, the team will decide to give him that final year at some point in the future?

The salary cap is probably going to precipitously decline next year. If he signs a max five year extension this time next year he might be costing himself $6m over the course of those five years (since the max contract will be lower this time next year). Why should he be quiet and watch that money simply disappear?

That is just ridiculous IMO.

Ed O.

With all the money available the year he would be a restricted free agent somebody will max offer him. Then you havea situation where a player is pissed because we didn't sign him before, and he is not sure he wants to be here anymore. So even if we match, it will never be the same because he isn't happy anymore. So if that is going to happen anyhow, why not just get it out of the way and make him happy now, and avoid all the team chemistry bullshit and drama.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

I heard the B Roy interview and he sounds offended. He's our franchise player, you PAY HIM!!!!! I don't give a rip what KP is doing, he should be on the phone with Roy saying this is taken care of and have a great summer. That hasn't happened!!!

This looks bad, not a good showing for KP,or the Blazers.This is just STUPID, and could leave some ill will for B ROY,not a smart move! This doesn't even address what message this is sending the rest of the team about contracts and what they are worth!!!!

Really HOW STUPID can you be? He's a two time allstar and rookie of the year, what else does he need to do in three years to get a max contract!!!!! KP doesn't look shrewd here, he looks clueless!!!

 

[superdeluxe]

The local sports station is going to run the interview again (About 2 1/2 minutes where Brandon talks about contracts).

Maybe folks at vulcan are listening in Seattle today!

 

[Ed O]

With all the money available the year he would be a restricted free agent somebody will max offer him. Then you havea situation where a player is pissed because we didn't sign him before, and he is not sure he wants to be here anymore. So even if we match, it will never be the same because he isn't happy anymore. So if that is going to happen anyhow, why not just get it out of the way and make him happy now, and avoid all the team chemistry bullshit and drama.

If another team maxes him as a RFA, the Blazers match and they save about ten million bucks over simply maxing him our right now.

If he's unhappy, that'll be tough beans.

Ed O.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Once again, this is a no brainer and KP looks like an idiot here!

 

[hasoos]

If another team maxes him as a RFA, the Blazers match and they save about ten million bucks over simply maxing him our right now.

If he's unhappy, that'll be tough beans.

Ed O.

Based upon what? I see nothing in NBA regulations that prohibit a team from offering him the maximum amount of money that a player with his experience can earn. How does that save Portland money? As far as I can tell, a team can offer him starting 9 million dollars because he is under 6 years of experience. That is a hell of a lot more than Portland would be offering him in an extension. So either you know about some rule I don't, or your math is fuzzy. Because 9 million is a hell of a lot more than what Portland would be paying him in a contract extension with max raise.

Secondly, you may say it would be tough beans in your scenario. I bet the people in Milwaukee thought the same until Mo Williams was unhappy and forced a trade. Money can't buy happyness if a player doesn't want to be here.

 

[Minstrel]

Based upon what? I see nothing in NBA regulations that prohibit a team from offering him the maximum amount of money that a player with his experience can earn. How does that save Portland money?

The team with a player's Bird rights is allowed to offer a higher starting salary than anyone else. That's why almost all big-time free agents stay with their teams; that's where they can earn the most money. Portland can offer Roy more than any other team can, a larger max deal. If Roy becomes a RFA and signs a max deal with another team, it'll be a smaller one than Portland could offer. Portland matches and gets a discount.

I don't think it'll come to that, though.

 

[BrianFromWA]

You're a week ahead of Canzano!

Scooping the AP Columnist of the Year = Brilliant! Pulitzer!

 

[magnumpi]

Considering Quick and Canzano's only source on this story is B-Roy's agent, I can't really see how we can hold more weight on Roy's Party Line over The Blazer's Party Line. The fact is, they're just negotiating by using the press against each other.

Everything is going to be fine.

magnumpi

 

[superdeluxe]

If he's unhappy, that'll be tough beans.

Ed O.

Now that is a smart tactic, piss off the franchise.

 

[BrianFromWA]

The team with a player's Bird rights is allowed to offer a higher starting salary than anyone else. That's why almost all big-time free agents stay with their teams; that's where they can earn the most money. Portland can offer Roy more than any other team can, a larger max deal. If Roy becomes a RFA and signs a max deal with another team, it'll be a smaller one than Portland could offer. Portland matches and gets a discount.

I don't think it'll come to that, though.

Actually, I don't think this is right.

Portland and another team can only start at the same max salary. He can make 25% of the cap as a "max" player, or 105% of his previous salary, whichever is greater.

Let's say that the Knicks, for argument's sake, want to sign LBJ and then Roy. They can offer Roy the same amount we can ($12.6M on a 50.4M projected 2010 cap) for the first year. However, unless they do a S&T, they can only offer him 5 yrs and 8% raises. We (or any team we S&T Roy to) can offer 6yrs and 10.5% raises. That's a difference b/w 6yrs/93.4M and 5yrs/73M. Or an average of 15.9M a year vs. 14.6M.

 

[superdeluxe]

The midday host is hammering Kevin Pritchard and Paul Allen now.

 

[GODunk]

I have thought about the whole negotiation situation, and here is my two cents, for what it's worth. First of all, I believe that Portland should have already had a deal in place and anounced at the earliest possible moment. Roy should get 5 and the max, IMO. Roy is going to have a shorter career than many of the other stars in the NBA due to the fact that he completed college prior to coming to the NBA. Some of these guys are into a veteran contract by the time that they are 22 or 23 which is when Roy was just entering the league. Since he got a later start, he probably will have opportunity to sign 2 max deals. So, I wouldn't blame Roy for playing hardball and insisting on the max deal.

Be that as it may, I believe that Roy should not have gone public with his comments. It seems to me that it is actually a little bit out of character for him, and so I assume that he is following talking points from his agent.

As far as Blazer management is concerned, sometimes you can outsmart yourself. Maybe they are trying to put LMA on notice that he isn't getting a max contract, I don't know. We have sought out high character guys, and with high character guys the best thing to do, IMO, is just be honest.

In conclusion, I think that both sides have made mistakes. I don't know, and I don't pretend to know what the underlying circumstances are. I don't know if KP and team were so involved in evaluating talent available in the draft and FA that they put Roy and LMA on the back burner, or if it is a "toxic" situation. I have no problem with KP saying, hey, let us focus on the draft and free agency because they are time sensitive issues, and then we will focus on extending Roy and LMA. Whatever the case, I won't criticize either side because I respect Roy as a man and a player, and because KP has done a great job with managing the Blazers so far and I believe he has earned "benefit of the doubt" status.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Roy is going to walk a fine line here.

On one hand, he's the franchise player. Has all the sympathy of the die-hards (hell... look how quick everyone is ready to shout "FUCK KP!" from the rooftops...!)

However, he will not find too much sympathy with a lot of renewed-interest and casual fans if he's bitching about $80 million instead of $70 million in this economy. Oregon has incredibly high unemployment and we all know how bad this economy is. Not many will forgive him if he plays his hand too publicly here.

Also, and I brought this up in another thread but it was late and most were mid-argument already... but FUCK ROY for saying (verbatim) "I wouldn't recruit because I don't know my future here." That is complete and utter bullshit and Roy has already lost points with me for it. If that is anything more than posturing than I don't expect him to be around here for the long haul. If Roy is not doing his part to help this franchise get better - and is solely concerned with his coming payday - than how is he any better than a Rasheed "C.T.C." Wallace?

I'm guessing this post wouldn't be popular with many-a-you, but all of the anger towards Blazers' management has pissed me off. It's been just as much if not more KP than Roy that has revitalized this team and positioned us to be a real great team for a long while for the next decade. Everyones willingness to throw KP and Co. under the bus - coupled with some ridiculous revisionist history ("KP fucked up on draft day" is my new favorite) - is plain wrong.

Not that I'm saying Roy is wrong or should be traded and all that, but my god... he is not a saint by any means, either!

I said KP effed up on draft day, and I'll say it until someone shows me how DaJuan Blair and Jon Brockman are worse fits for this team than Jeff Pendergraph and Dante Cunningham, two players they beat up on head-to-head and in the same conferences.

Though I think you may be reading the Roy-free-agent comment wrong (or maybe I am): I read it as "LMA and I are ineffective at bringing FAs here b/c we may be gone next summer b/c we aren't locked up by the Blazers"--not as a threat to leave.

 

[superdeluxe]

Obviously with Brandon going to the public like this it is to put pressure on KP and Vulcan. And it has gotten the desired effect, many fans are upset and pissed off at the FO.

 

[Ed O]

Based upon what? I see nothing in NBA regulations that prohibit a team from offering him the maximum amount of money that a player with his experience can earn. How does that save Portland money? As far as I can tell, a team can offer him starting 9 million dollars because he is under 6 years of experience. That is a hell of a lot more than Portland would be offering him in an extension. So either you know about some rule I don't, or your math is fuzzy. Because 9 million is a hell of a lot more than what Portland would be paying him in a contract extension with max raise.

1. The max salary, as I understand it, of the year that the extension is signed rules the day. I base that on Chris Paul and Deron Williams having first year salaries of 13,758,000, which was the max salary when they signed their extension, while the max salary for 2009-10 is 13,520,500. If I am correct with this (and I'm not 100% sure I am), then the Blazers could extend Roy right now/this year with a first year contract value of that 13.52m, but a team next summer could only offer NEXT year's max, which will be lower than 13m and might be merely 12.5m.

2. Another team can only offer 8% raises from that first year, while Portland can offer 10.5%.

Taking those two things into account, and assuming a 12.5m maximum contract for 2010-11 (which is slightly higher than the 05-06 year, when the salary cap was just under 50m), there is almost a $10m difference between what the Blazers can offer now and what any other team could offer next summer.

Secondly, you may say it would be tough beans in your scenario. I bet the people in Milwaukee thought the same until Mo Williams was unhappy and forced a trade. Money can't buy happyness if a player doesn't want to be here.

Oh, no! Mo Williams forced his way out!

One player is supposed to make the Blazers negotiate from a position of fear, rather than strength? That doesn't make sense to me.

Ed O.

 

[superdeluxe]

Also, and I brought this up in another thread but it was late and most were mid-argument already... but FUCK ROY for saying (verbatim) "I wouldn't recruit because I don't know my future here." That is complete and utter bullshit and Roy has already lost points with me for it. If that is anything more than posturing than I don't expect him to be around here for the long haul. If Roy is not doing his part to help this franchise get better - and is solely concerned with his coming payday - than how is he any better than a Rasheed "C.T.C." Wallace?

Why the hell should Roy help someone else get 5 years, when the FO is dicking him around for his 5th year? Thats idiotic.

 

[Ed O]

The midday host is hammering Kevin Pritchard and Paul Allen now.

Softy is ridiculous.

Also, Roy didn't sound frustrated at all to me. He sounded excited at the prospect of getting tens of millions of dollars, and he sounded eager to get a deal done.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Why the hell should Roy help someone else get 5 years, when the FO is dicking him around for his 5th year? Thats idiotic.

This

 

[Ed O]

Why the hell should Roy help someone else get 5 years, when the FO is dicking him around for his 5th year? Thats idiotic.

Do you think he would have helped if the Blazers had only offered Hedo four years? Of course not.

Stop hiding behind nonsensical arguments.

Roy didn't help out because he is trying to play hardball (and only has one more year guaranteed) and/or he was not asked to do so. It wasn't because Hedo was offered more years than Roy is being offered in his extension.

Ed O.

 

[superdeluxe]

Also, Roy didn't sound frustrated at all to me. He sounded excited at the prospect of getting tens of millions of dollars, and he sounded eager to get a deal done.

Ed O.

You don't think he was frustrated about how its only 50/50 and that he thinks its pretty far from getting done?