OT Active Shooters in Vegas

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Conspiracy theories are not a black or white subject. Yeah, there's a ton of off the wall bullshit ones, there's no denying it. But you've got to look at history. Look at all the insanely fucked up shit our government has done that is now declassified info. False flags, psyops and all the other terms that make a dude sound crazy if he uses them, have all been perpetrated by our government. I'm not commenting on the credibility of any event in particular, I'm just saying that it's not 100% crazy to suspect our goverent of doing some shady shit, especially if they have done it before. You can't just pass people off as crazy every time they question something. What would it take for some of you to question the credibility of something? Are you just afraid to get put in a box with the 'crazy people'?
 
jonnyboy said:
Conspiracy theories are not a black or white subject. Yeah, there's a ton of off the wall bullshit ones, there's no denying it. But you've got to look at history. Look at all the insanely fucked up shit our government has done that is now declassified info. False flags, psyops and all the other terms that make a dude sound crazy if he uses them, have all been perpetrated by our government. I'm not commenting on the credibility of any event in particular, I'm just saying that it's not 100% crazy to suspect our goverent of doing some shady shit, especially if they have done it before. You can't just pass people off as crazy every time they question something. What would it take for some of you to question the credibility of something? Are you just afraid to get put in a box with the 'crazy people'?
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If there is no further threat they should live stream every meeting or investigation. End of theories.
 
That's the same reason I hate edited posts. I want to know exactly what was said here.

In this situation I want to know everything.
 
jonnyboy said:
Conspiracy theories are not a black or white subject. Yeah, there's a ton of off the wall bullshit ones, there's no denying it. But you've got to look at history. Look at all the insanely fucked up shit our government has done that is now declassified info. False flags, psyops and all the other terms that make a dude sound crazy if he uses them, have all been perpetrated by our government. I'm not commenting on the credibility of any event in particular, I'm just saying that it's not 100% crazy to suspect our goverent of doing some shady shit, especially if they have done it before. You can't just pass people off as crazy every time they question something. What would it take for some of you to question the credibility of something? Are you just afraid to get put in a box with the 'crazy people'?
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True, and I said as much when I said there is no doubt thewre is corruption in Washington(our government).

But there is a difference between things actually not adding up, and people who continually try to spin things to create conspiracies.

Here is a guy debunking the 4th floor shooter that so many initially tried to use as a conspiracy.

 
Orion Bailey said:
True, and I said as much when I said there is no doubt thewre is corruption in Washington(our government).

But there is a difference between things actually not adding up, and people who continually try to spin things to create conspiracies.

Here is a guy debunking the 4th floor shooter that so many initially tried to use as a conspiracy.

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No I hear ya. I don't have any skepticisms about the Vegas incident (or most others for that matter), I was just basically saying the government doesn't really have any credibility when it comes to being honest. Once they get their grubby fingers into something there is right cause for skepticism. I actually think conspiracy theorists, crazy or not, correct or incorrect, serve a purpose in a strange way. If you had people watching your every move to make sure you you weren't involved in some conspiracy, you'd be less likely to actually try some shady shit (putting you in the government's shoes). Just my take. I don't buy the whole "fake news is dangerous/ the end of the world" bullshit. I think that's just a way for slimeballs to discredit each other.
 
MarAzul said:
I don't like the idea, but then I prefer an accurate weapon to a spray pray.

I also think we have a right to defensive weapons. No such right for offensive weapons.
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Good post. The last paragraph is one of the more reasonable things I've read on this subject.
 
dviss1 said:
Yeah, my bad. I've taken a few people off ignore. He'll probably stay there.
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I don't have anyone on ignore but I understand it totally. There are some people like @Denny Crane, @BrianFromWA or even @MarAzul whom I disagree with on the majority of issues but at least bring interesting conversation to the table. I wouldn't consider blocking them, but there are others like @Nate who I have never read a post from that was interesting. If I were to ignore, those folks are eho would make my list.
 
dviss1 said:
Yeah, my bad. I've taken a few people off ignore. He'll probably stay there.
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Don't act like you don't read all my posts.
 
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Further said:
I don't have anyone on ignore but I understand it totally. There are some people like @Denny Crane, @BrianFromWA or even @MarAzul whom I disagree with on the majority of issues but at least bring interesting conversation to the table. I wouldn't consider blocking them, but there are others like @Nate who I have never read a post from that was interesting. If I were to ignore, those folks are eho would make my list.
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Sick burn bro.
 
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dviss1 said:
What's your solution? Let me guess, give more people guns?
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Criminals rarely use legal guns to commit crimes anyway.

Enforce the extremely extensive and all-encompassing existing laws AND PRISON SENTENCES against bad behavior.

All urban areas with severe (un-Constitutional) restrictions preventing the legal possession of firearms compounds the mistake by electing liberal judges who wimp out on sentencing, and are rife with liberal parole boards who constantly undermine the system by unleashing proven bad people over and over and over and over. Over 3/4ths of all crime in America is committed by repeat offenders.

If you think getting rid of guns is an answer to less crime in Chicago, consider the more effective move of getting rid of the actual POS bad people in Chicago. We have a system for that. It's called the Justice System and it works like a charm when used correctly.

BTW, violent crime in America has dropped over 50% since I was your age and despite terrorists and other headlines it is still in a freefall.
 
dviss1 said:
What's your solution? Let me guess, give more people guns?
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#1 stop counting suicides when we talk about gun violence. It's not part of this discussion that we're having, it's a completely different discussion entirely, but anti-gun people include it because it makes the stats look worse.

#2 realize that in a country of 323 million people, we're going to have homicides. We're going to have accidents. We're going to have deaths. According to the CDC, 2,626,418 people died last year from a number of different causes. Think about that.... 2.6 million people died last year. 44 thousand of those were from suicide. Cancer and heart disease were BY FAR the biggest killers. Just under 600k died from cancer and around 623 thousand from heart disease. Just a little over 11k deaths from guns in homicides. 11 thousand people in a country of 323 million. It's not an epidemic. The odds are extremely low that you will be killed by a gun. It's not even one of the top two things that could kill you. Why aren't we more concerned about our health? Obesity, and especially childhood obesity, IS an epidemic in this country.

#3 realize that "common sense gun laws" are bullshit. They wouldn't stop a mass shooting. It's not even a bandaid. It's a placebo. The Las Vegas shooter had no criminal record, so he passed his background checks with flying colors. He had no history of mental illness. He had money, so he could buy as many guns as he wanted. He thoroughly planned this attack out, so no amount of waiting period would have stopped him. So what law exactly are people hoping would have prevented Las Vegas from happening?

#4 We need to be addressing the cause of gun deaths, no the method with which they were carried out. Whether it's someone who commits suicide, or someone who does a drive by shooting, or someone who shoots up a school. There's a reason why they did it, and that reason is not guns. They're not shooting people because of guns, they're shooting because they're pissed off at the world. They're pissed off at their classmates, they're pissed off at the government, they're pissed off at their spouse or their parents, they're depressed, etc. Guns are not the reason. They're merely the tool. Similarly, the terrorist attack in Nice, France had nothing to do with trucks. It was someone carrying out an attack in the name of Islam, and his truck was the tool with which he was using to carry it out.
 
The question is will this be made for a Netflix or will it go to the movie theater.
 
Natebishop3 said:
#1 stop counting suicides when we talk about gun violence. It's not part of this discussion that we're having, it's a completely different discussion entirely, but anti-gun people include it because it makes the stats look worse.
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I agree that it's a number used to inflate the severity of an issue. But, that doesn't mean the issue isn't already bad.
#2 realize that in a country of 323 million people, we're going to have homicides. We're going to have accidents. We're going to have deaths. According to the CDC, 2,626,418 people died last year from a number of different causes. Think about that.... 2.6 million people died last year. 44 thousand of those were from suicide. Cancer and heart disease were BY FAR the biggest killers. Just under 600k died from cancer and around 623 thousand from heart disease. Just a little over 11k deaths from guns in homicides. 11 thousand people in a country of 323 million. It's not an epidemic. The odds are extremely low that you will be killed by a gun. It's not even one of the top two things that could kill you. Why aren't we more concerned about our health? Obesity, and especially childhood obesity, IS an epidemic in this country.
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Yes, and we try and stop Cancer, we invest in research and outlaw certain carcinogens and regulate the use of others. Just because one issue isn't killing as many people as another issue doesn't mean it's not way the fuck out of bounds. I'm sure if you were a parent/brother/.... of one of the people slaughtered with guns than you might think that guns are an epidemic. The odds are extremely low that you will be killed by plane crash but we have miles of laws and regulations to guard our safety in the air. And in fact, we most likely would have many times more deaths from flying if we didn't regulate this form of travel. In 2016 there were 325 deaths from flying worldwide, but since cancer kills more, lets just fuck all the regulations and let chaos reign supreme.


#3 realize that "common sense gun laws" are bullshit. They wouldn't stop a mass shooting. It's not even a bandaid. It's a placebo. The Las Vegas shooter had no criminal record, so he passed his background checks with flying colors. He had no history of mental illness. He had money, so he could buy as many guns as he wanted. He thoroughly planned this attack out, so no amount of waiting period would have stopped him. So what law exactly are people hoping would have prevented Las Vegas from happening?
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This is your contention but not everyone agrees. I was listening to an interview today and the person said if all gun purchases had to be monitored then a slew of guns in a short time would have sent off warning signals and law enforcement might very well have been at least alerted that the shooter was stockpiling many guns and ammo quickly. Would that have stopped him? I don't know, but there is a chance. Or getting rid of any gun sale that isn't through a licensed dealer would knock out many people who buy on the grey market (almost 50% of all gun sales). Requiring owners to have ample locked storage for all firearms might keep more of them actually locked up instead of stolen by thieves or family members and used for murder or suicide. Hell, taking away bump stocks would have likely lessened the damage. Everyone knows we aren't going to stop all murders or mass killings or terrorist attacks, but perhaps we can mitigate the damage. If some killer can only kill 20 people instead of 40, that's actually a win. It's still atrocity but at least the damage was lessened.

I'm not sure what laws could or couldn't make an impact, but I think it's highly suspect of you to summarily proclaim they are bullshit and wouldn't stop a mass shooting. They wouldn't stop all, but I can't imagine if we approached these laws with integrity that we couldn't forge an outcome with fewer killed.

#4 We need to be addressing the cause of gun deaths, no the method with which they were carried out. Whether it's someone who commits suicide, or someone who does a drive by shooting, or someone who shoots up a school. There's a reason why they did it, and that reason is not guns. They're not shooting people because of guns, they're shooting because they're pissed off at the world. They're pissed off at their classmates, they're pissed off at the government, they're pissed off at their spouse or their parents, they're depressed, etc. Guns are not the reason. They're merely the tool. Similarly, the terrorist attack in Nice, France had nothing to do with trucks. It was someone carrying out an attack in the name of Islam, and his truck was the tool with which he was using to carry it out.
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There are multiple approaches that can take place at the same time. We can do a better job diagnosing mental health issues and make sure those people are covered. We can work to alleviate the social pressures in inner cities and in classroom. And, we can mitigate the negative outcomes when something does go terribly wrong.






I like my guns too, but we live in a civilization. At least for the time being.
 
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Natebishop3 said:
#1 stop counting suicides when we talk about gun violence. It's not part of this discussion that we're having, it's a completely different discussion entirely, but anti-gun people include it because it makes the stats look worse.

#2 realize that in a country of 323 million people, we're going to have homicides. We're going to have accidents. We're going to have deaths. According to the CDC, 2,626,418 people died last year from a number of different causes. Think about that.... 2.6 million people died last year. 44 thousand of those were from suicide. Cancer and heart disease were BY FAR the biggest killers. Just under 600k died from cancer and around 623 thousand from heart disease. Just a little over 11k deaths from guns in homicides. 11 thousand people in a country of 323 million. It's not an epidemic. The odds are extremely low that you will be killed by a gun. It's not even one of the top two things that could kill you. Why aren't we more concerned about our health? Obesity, and especially childhood obesity, IS an epidemic in this country.

#3 realize that "common sense gun laws" are bullshit. They wouldn't stop a mass shooting. It's not even a bandaid. It's a placebo. The Las Vegas shooter had no criminal record, so he passed his background checks with flying colors. He had no history of mental illness. He had money, so he could buy as many guns as he wanted. He thoroughly planned this attack out, so no amount of waiting period would have stopped him. So what law exactly are people hoping would have prevented Las Vegas from happening?

#4 We need to be addressing the cause of gun deaths, no the method with which they were carried out. Whether it's someone who commits suicide, or someone who does a drive by shooting, or someone who shoots up a school. There's a reason why they did it, and that reason is not guns. They're not shooting people because of guns, they're shooting because they're pissed off at the world. They're pissed off at their classmates, they're pissed off at the government, they're pissed off at their spouse or their parents, they're depressed, etc. Guns are not the reason. They're merely the tool. Similarly, the terrorist attack in Nice, France had nothing to do with trucks. It was someone carrying out an attack in the name of Islam, and his truck was the tool with which he was using to carry it out.
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Tl/dr

On its face though I disagree completely with not classifying suicides as gun violence. Guns make it easy to kill yourself. Most people wouldn't kill themselves if it would take longer and be more painful.
 
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