OT Active Shooters in Vegas

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I spent several years of my life carrying guns and being around people that were trained at dealing with guns and still saw some gruesome accidents because of them. I have no issue with allowing gun ownership - but there needs to be much tighter control of education, registration and continuing checks to keep them. Just as cars need a proper driving license and continue periodic registration of both cars and drivers - guns need to be registered periodically and the owners need to be continuously evaluated. Not doing it is stupid imho.
 
HCP said:
You wouldn't? If you knew all these people killed last night would be alive right now and all you had to do was give up our rights to own guns...... you wouldn't do that?
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Holy hell man! This dude planned to kill people, he planned it for some time. There is no fucking way known to man, that my giving up my rights to own guns would stop this fellow from killing people. Please think on this fact.
 
HCP said:
Man this is a never ending debate....... but I could not disagree with you more. I respect you even though we've never met, that said, what if we just took the guns out of the equation? Could you answer me that sir? Nothing else, just that ONE question. I don't need to know HOW we do it, just want to know what you think of getting rid of them?
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/14/europe/nice-france-truck/index.html

Scores of people were killed Thursday night when a large truck plowed through a Bastille Day crowd in Nice, France, in what President Francois Hollande called a terror attack.

The death toll grew through the night, with Hollande saying 77 people died. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said 80 people were killed.
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Or



Twenty-two people were killed and 116 injured in a suicide bombing at Manchester Arena.
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Or

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40013040

Twelve people have been arrested after the London terror attack which left seven people dead and 48 injured.
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Or

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html

At least 128 people were killed in the Paris and Saint-Denis shootings and bombings, French officials said. Saint-Denis is home to the national stadium where the soccer match was being played.
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London..... Paris..... they have strict gun laws, and yet people are still finding a way to carry out devastating terrorist attacks.

Edit- apparently the software here thinks that a direct link to an article is a form of media.
 
Alright, I am remembering why I don't venture into these threads. I respect your opinions and will part ways with these topics. I pray nobody with a gun kills any of your loved ones. I've never been more serious about a post. Peace to you guys.
 
HCP said:
Alright, I am remembering why I don't venture into these threads. I respect your opinions and will part ways with these topics. I pray nobody with a gun kills any of your loved ones. I've never been more serious about a post. Peace to you guys.
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Are people being mean to you? I will never understand why someone thinks that disagreement, or debate, is a reason to leave a discussion. You're asking questions and I'm answering your questions.

Taking all guns away won't do anything. I linked several examples of places with strict gun laws that have had devastating terror attacks.... in fact, those attacks were worse than what happened last night. How do you respond to that?
 
HCP said:
Alright, I am remembering why I don't venture into these threads. I respect your opinions and will part ways with these topics. I pray nobody with a gun kills any of your loved ones. I've never been more serious about a post. Peace to you guys.
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You lost me when you wrote "I'd gladly give up my freedoms..."

What the hell did you fight for when you served?
 
I feel like it's such an easy copout to immediately blame guns when something like this happens. It's the immediate kneejerk reaction whenever something happens, and yet I never hear those remarks about guns when something horrible happens in Europe.

77 people are run down on a boardwalk in France.... did anyone stop to say, "but aren't you glad it wasn't a gun?"

128 people were shot in Paris.... did anyone stop to say, "aren't you glad we banned guns so it was a little bit more difficult for them to get their hands on these guns?"
 
Natebishop3 said:
London..... Paris..... they have strict gun laws, and yet people are still finding a way to carry out devastating terrorist attacks.
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Absolutely true. Anyone that thinks that more/better gun controls will eliminate all tragedies is unfortunately mistaken.

However, anyone who thinks that more/better will not reduce these either is mistaken as well.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

"The review of 2010 World Health Organization data also revealed that despite having a similar rate of nonlethal crimes as those countries, the United States has a much higher rate of deadly violence, mostly due to the higher rate of gun-related murders."

If you look at total-death rate per 100,000 crimes is about 3 times higher than the next worst (Finland) and probably 5 times higher than the average (I just did a quick calculation in my head for this one, do not hold me to this specific number).

Anyway, I believe that much better gun control is needed in this country even if it will not eliminate all the tragedies.
 
Chicago is like the murder capital of the USA. Gun ban.

It's not like restricting access, or less whatever, is the answer, either.
 
andalusian said:
Absolutely true. Anyone that thinks that more/better gun controls will eliminate all tragedies is unfortunately mistaken.

However, anyone who thinks that more/better will not reduce these either is mistaken as well.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

"The review of 2010 World Health Organization data also revealed that despite having a similar rate of nonlethal crimes as those countries, the United States has a much higher rate of deadly violence, mostly due to the higher rate of gun-related murders."

If you look at total-death rate per 100,000 crimes is about 3 times higher than the next worst (Finland) and probably 5 times higher than the average (I just did a quick calculation in my head for this one, do not hold me to this specific number).

Anyway, I believe that much better gun control is needed in this country even if it will not eliminate all the tragedies.
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But they are counting suicides, which skews the data, but isn't presented to the public in that way. They say "gun deaths," which makes people immediately think of murders. When you think of a gun death, are you thinking about someone offing them self?

Similarly, the FBI defines "mass shootings" as 2 people and a shooter. So 3 people constitute a "mass shooting." But when you hear of a mass shooting, are you thinking of 3 people?
 
Natebishop3 said:
But they are counting suicides, which skews the data, but isn't presented to the public in that way. They say "gun deaths," which makes people immediately think of murders. When you think of a gun death, are you thinking about someone offing them self?

Similarly, the FBI defines "mass shootings" as 2 people and a shooter. So 3 people constitute a "mass shooting." But when you hear of a mass shooting, are you thinking of 3 people?
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Directly from the study:

"US homicide rates were 7.0 times higher than in other high-income countries, driven by a gun homicide rate that was 25.2 times higher. For 15- to 24-year-olds, the gun homicide rate in the United States was 49.0 times higher. Firearm-related suicide rates were 8.0 times higher in the United States, but the overall suicide rates were average. Unintentional firearm deaths were 6.2 times higher in the United States. The overall firearm death rate in the United States from all causes was 10.0 times higher. Ninety percent of women, 91% of children aged 0 to 14 years, 92% of youth aged 15 to 24 years, and 82% of all people killed by firearms were from the United States."

Table 3 in the report includes the ratios specifically (US to other countries):

Firearms homicide: 25.2 (that is 25.2 multiplication)
Firearms suicide: 8.0
Unintentional firearm rate: 6.2
 
HCP said:
To keep my family safe.
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Those who trade liberty for safety end up with neither.

You're not afraid to let your wife drive around with the kids? Far more dangerous than any risk of being shot to death. It's not even close.
 
andalusian said:
Directly from the study:

"US homicide rates were 7.0 times higher than in other high-income countries, driven by a gun homicide rate that was 25.2 times higher. For 15- to 24-year-olds, the gun homicide rate in the United States was 49.0 times higher. Firearm-related suicide rates were 8.0 times higher in the United States, but the overall suicide rates were average. Unintentional firearm deaths were 6.2 times higher in the United States. The overall firearm death rate in the United States from all causes was 10.0 times higher. Ninety percent of women, 91% of children aged 0 to 14 years, 92% of youth aged 15 to 24 years, and 82% of all people killed by firearms were from the United States."

Table 3 in the report includes the ratios specifically (US to other countries):

Firearms homicide: 25.2 (that is 25.2 multiplication)
Firearms suicide: 8.0
Unintentional firearm rate: 6.2
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It makes me wonder though, what other countries have the gang and drug issues that we have here? If you look at that table, we also have the second highest NON-firearm homicide rate. So people are simply being killed in the US more than other countries. Why is that?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Are people being mean to you? I will never understand why someone thinks that disagreement, or debate, is a reason to leave a discussion. You're asking questions and I'm answering your questions.

Taking all guns away won't do anything. I linked several examples of places with strict gun laws that have had devastating terror attacks.... in fact, those attacks were worse than what happened last night. How do you respond to that?
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I would rather have those events than what we are having here. I truly will take my chances on hug attacks like that, than daily threats of guns.
 
HCP said:
I can understand this mentality. I type this not in a joking manner, but I don't worry about deer and elk. I worry about my children's being mowed down with bullets at school.
I don't do anything (anymore) that ever puts me in a situation to be worried about bad cops. I was a cop and know the game.
All mass shootings are done by people with different mind states and beliefs......they all don't fall into a certain profile. I know you are smart enough and know this. But deep down cant you see how the ONE and ONLY CONSTANT in these mass murders is the GUNS. Each and every shooting is based on some sort of hate or mental imbalance right? But the ONLY thing that is at each and every site of these killings is guns. I'm all for your right to bare arms, but what if we all just put em down..... I lost a few friends, four in fact when we were 16-19 and this was before I went in the military..... it always hurts me so much to think that if guns weren't available to these young, dumb kids, they would still be here. I'm willing to give up my rights to keepm people alive is all I'm saying. Wish others were as well.
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In my personal opinion, if sick minds want to kill, they'll kill. They'll just build bombs instead
 
Denny Crane said:
Those who trade liberty for safety end up with neither.

You're not afraid to let your wife drive around with the kids? Far more dangerous than any risk of being shot to death. It's not even close.
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I'll take my chances with no guns in the equation.
 
HCP said:
I would rather have those events than what we are having here. I truly will take my chances on hug attacke like that, than daily threats of guns.
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People are fucked in the head man. They're going to find a way to hurt others. Whether it's with a gun, or a knife, or a car, or a truck, or a bomb. That article that Andalusian linked proves that Americans are simply more violent than other countries. Why do you think that is?
 
Mediocre Man said:
In my personal opinion, if sick minds want to kill, they'll kill. They'll just build bombs instead
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And like I said, I am cool with that. I will take my chances with bombs than guns.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It makes me wonder though, what other countries have the gang and drug issues that we have here? If you look at that table, we also have the second highest NON-firearm homicide rate. So people are simply being killed in the US more than other countries. Why is that?
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I do not know. I do not pretend that tougher gun controls will solve everything either - but they are clearly needed imho. If we are only 10 times worse than the other high-income countries it will save many lives, that's a worthy outcome.

Always go for the low-hanging fruit first.
 
Natebishop3 said:
People are fucked in the head man. They're going to find a way to hurt others. Whether it's with a gun, or a knife, or a car, or a truck, or a bomb. That article that Andalusian linked proves that Americans are simply more violent than other countries. Why do you think that is?
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I'm not questioning whether or not people are bad and will hurt other people....... but lets negate the tools they have to carry out the task is all I'm saying. There is nails and glass and and shit in the street thats going to pop your tire, lets just sweep up the road a bit and get rid of as much of the threat of that happening as possible.
 
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