Aldridge has quit

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

I've never avoided the Batum questions. You're making this thread about Batum when we aren't discussing Batum. We've talked about Batum in lots of other threads.

Its called deflecting.

Pretty on topic actually. It's about a high paid, high expectation player being blamed for losses. Obviously batum is the second highest paid player, so it applies.
 
Which? That Nic isn't one of our top two players or that Nic is overpaid?

If you go back to the start of the season I'm sure you can find many posts talking about how Nic is our best or second best player.
 
Aldridge just isn't that great over the course of an 82 game NBA season.

Aldridge is the ONLY NBA PLAYER with 1200 points and 500 rebounds. If he just isn't that great over the course of an 82 game NBA season, than who the fuck is? People, you're killing me.
 
Agree w/PapaG that this is kind of a train wreck thread, but let me see if I can add something...

I don't think anyone (seriously) is saying to dump LMA for garbage. I don't think anyone (seriously) is saying LMA's the best PF in the game when LeBron Raymone James and Carmelo Anthony are allowing their teams to play extended small-ball.

But in between those two is some pretty large gray area. One would think that if LMA was (let's say) a Top-3 PF entering his prime on a pretty reasonable salary for 2 years after this, that he'd bring back an absolutely awesome haul to us if we trade him. I'm not sure that's the case.

From almost everything that I've seen from LMA over the years (whether watching every game until January, or reading the quotes from interviews, or looking at both "normal" and "advanced" stats), he seems to fancy himself as a slightly-poor-man's Dirk. Aside from the random LaMonster stretch every now and then, he hasn't played anywhere near the level he was in 2010 where 11% of his game was tips/dunks/inside 3 feet and 36% was inside 12 feet. He's now shooting 74% of his shots from outside 12 feet, at a 42% clip, a career-worst. (To put it in perspective, Lillard shoots 76% of his shots from outside 12 feet, but since he's making 36% of his 3's then his TS% is higher than LMAs). His offensive rebounding rate is 12% lower than his previous career-worst (7.1% to 8.1%). One might assume that having Hickson acting like a rebounding beast is stealing some of his opportunities, but JJ's ORB% is lower than Oden's and Przybilla's were in years when LMA was consistently getting 9% and 10% orb%. His DRB%, however, is the highest it's been in his career. On average (PER, Rebounding, TS%), he's playing at about the level he was in 2008-09 (except with a much higher Usage Rate and a much lower ORtg), where he wasn't close to being an All-Star, he wasn't close to being the Lead Dog and it was thought that, with some work, he could make the leap.

The question becomes: What does the team do now? If LMA goes back to being the LaMonster from about All-Star Break 2011 to All-Star Break 2012, playing what is in effect the C position on the block and defending opponent Cs, he's an underpaid All-NBA force that you have to keep. Even in a regression year for him this year, his PERdifferential at each position is +2.5 at PF (the bulk of his 2000 minutes), but +14.4 in his 250 minutes at C. He destroys other centers when he plays there.

But when he's doing his Dirk impression (and not nearly as well), a large part of his effectiveness goes by the wayside (and you're seeing it this season). Unfortunately, I don't think it's an isolated thing:
Aldridge addressed his more perimeter-based game earlier in November to Ben Golliver: “With Nate [McMillan] it was more of me on the block all game, all day. People got used to seeing me in that light. The team was easier to scheme against. Now we have more movement. When asked if that makes him more of a finesse player, he replied that “I think people take my game as finesse but they don't see me banging Chuck Hayes six times to get to that spot and then shoot it. People just see my jumpshots, they don't see what I'm doing to get to my spots.” As a non-coach I don’t know how banging with Chuck Hayes to get to a jumpshooting position is better or worse for movement than banging with Chuck Hayes to get on the block, but I do know that the efficiency of the shot—and therefore the offense—is significantly better with him shooting from the block rather than outside. Dirk Nowitzki (who Coach Stotts may be profiling Aldridge as?) shoots a similar split of long jumpers, but is consistently in the 48%-to-54% range, including enough 3-point makes to boost his True Shooting Percentage to the high-50s to low-60s percent. Last year Aldridge, for the first time, had a mark above 55%, and has regressed to 52% this year.

For me, it's difficult to place LMA in the "untradeable" category that I'd put Lillard in. In looking at this team going forward, I think (along with a lot of people) that, whether or not LMA is kept at the PF spot, a defensively-capable big man is needed. (It's a bit amusing to me, since LMA was drafted as a DPoY center to go next to Z-bo, how things have changed). We've talked ad nauseum about how, in the eyes of most, JJ and LMA as our two starters going forward (at whatever the price) probably isn't a contender for much. So, imho, it's worth looking at what a "multiple-all-star-maybe-top-3-PF-in-the-game-with-2-years-left-on-a-pretty-good-deal" will bring back that can fit our team going forward. If the verdict is that he somehow doesn't bring back a good, young-ish defensive big and some other talent (either young guys who haven't played much or potentially good draft picks), then keep him and roll the dice that he plays more like LaMonster than LaMarshmallow. But if you can get your defensive big of the now coupled with some more assets while clearing even more cap room, then I think you have to look at it.

And I don't want to bring up Batum much in an LMA thread, but for those who don't like his play right now, do you think he forgot how after his triple-double streak? That other teams scouted him harder? Or maybe that when you can't shoot, pass or dribble without pain in your severely sprained (broken?) wrist that it just may impact your game? Honestly, I think that it's more an indictment of our bench that a hobbled Batum is still the best option to start and play 35mpg.
 
Wait are you saying Aldridge isn't the best or second best player on this team?

How did you get that out of my post? I said that Aldridge is supposed to be one of our top two players, so there are expectations that go with that. When you start trying to point the finger at Batum, realize that he isn't one of our top two players, so the expectations are different.
 
A PF's first responsibility is to rebound. How does our super-tall PF, whom 2 people in this thread say is the league's best PF, do?

Leaguewide, Aldridge is #124 in rebounds per minute. He is #121 in Total Rebound Percentage.
 
A PF's first responsibility is to rebound. How does our super-tall PF, whom 2 people in this thread say is the league's best PF, do?

Leaguewide, Aldridge is #124 in rebounds per minute. He is #121 in Total Rebound Percentage.

How dare you insult the hero of the realm!
 
A PF's first responsibility is to rebound. How does our super-tall PF, whom 2 people in this thread say is the league's best PF, do?

Leaguewide, Aldridge is #124 in rebounds per minute. He is #121 in Total Rebound Percentage.

Thats just stupid to say. PF's/C's do grab the majority of rebounds a team has but to put one stat up as the first responsibility of any player is crazy. Thats like saying Rebounding at the PF position is more important then defense and offense, if thats how you look at it then i'd disagree with you on that. Also did you take out players under 10m who really don't get a lot of time or is that just players in general, because stats are usually screwed up when its per minute because it lets in a lot of out of rotation players who might come in for 1-10m and put up "great" stats for that very short amount of time.
LA needs to be a better rebounder I don't think anyone is going to argue that, its definitely frustrating watching him play when he has elite length and seems to not want to use it to take advantage of it on the glass. If you average it out between starting PF's in the league per 36 I wonder if LA would even break top 15.
 
Last edited:
A PF's first responsibility is to rebound. How does our super-tall PF, whom 2 people in this thread say is the league's best PF, do?

Leaguewide, Aldridge is #124 in rebounds per minute. He is #121 in Total Rebound Percentage.

How about actual rebounds? 20th in the league, but higher than gortat, hibbert and Marc gasol. Hmmmmm. I seem to remember going goo goo over these guys.
 
Last edited:
Agree w/PapaG that this is kind of a train wreck thread, but let me see if I can add something...

I don't think anyone (seriously) is saying to dump LMA for garbage. I don't think anyone (seriously) is saying LMA's the best PF in the game when LeBron Raymone James and Carmelo Anthony are allowing their teams to play extended small-ball.

But in between those two is some pretty large gray area. One would think that if LMA was (let's say) a Top-3 PF entering his prime on a pretty reasonable salary for 2 years after this, that he'd bring back an absolutely awesome haul to us if we trade him. I'm not sure that's the case.

From almost everything that I've seen from LMA over the years (whether watching every game until January, or reading the quotes from interviews, or looking at both "normal" and "advanced" stats), he seems to fancy himself as a slightly-poor-man's Dirk. Aside from the random LaMonster stretch every now and then, he hasn't played anywhere near the level he was in 2010 where 11% of his game was tips/dunks/inside 3 feet and 36% was inside 12 feet. He's now shooting 74% of his shots from outside 12 feet, at a 42% clip, a career-worst. (To put it in perspective, Lillard shoots 76% of his shots from outside 12 feet, but since he's making 36% of his 3's then his TS% is higher than LMAs). His offensive rebounding rate is 12% lower than his previous career-worst (7.1% to 8.1%). One might assume that having Hickson acting like a rebounding beast is stealing some of his opportunities, but JJ's ORB% is lower than Oden's and Przybilla's were in years when LMA was consistently getting 9% and 10% orb%. His DRB%, however, is the highest it's been in his career. On average (PER, Rebounding, TS%), he's playing at about the level he was in 2008-09 (except with a much higher Usage Rate and a much lower ORtg), where he wasn't close to being an All-Star, he wasn't close to being the Lead Dog and it was thought that, with some work, he could make the leap.

The question becomes: What does the team do now? If LMA goes back to being the LaMonster from about All-Star Break 2011 to All-Star Break 2012, playing what is in effect the C position on the block and defending opponent Cs, he's an underpaid All-NBA force that you have to keep. Even in a regression year for him this year, his PERdifferential at each position is +2.5 at PF (the bulk of his 2000 minutes), but +14.4 in his 250 minutes at C. He destroys other centers when he plays there.

But when he's doing his Dirk impression (and not nearly as well), a large part of his effectiveness goes by the wayside (and you're seeing it this season). Unfortunately, I don't think it's an isolated thing:


For me, it's difficult to place LMA in the "untradeable" category that I'd put Lillard in. In looking at this team going forward, I think (along with a lot of people) that, whether or not LMA is kept at the PF spot, a defensively-capable big man is needed. (It's a bit amusing to me, since LMA was drafted as a DPoY center to go next to Z-bo, how things have changed). We've talked ad nauseum about how, in the eyes of most, JJ and LMA as our two starters going forward (at whatever the price) probably isn't a contender for much. So, imho, it's worth looking at what a "multiple-all-star-maybe-top-3-PF-in-the-game-with-2-years-left-on-a-pretty-good-deal" will bring back that can fit our team going forward. If the verdict is that he somehow doesn't bring back a good, young-ish defensive big and some other talent (either young guys who haven't played much or potentially good draft picks), then keep him and roll the dice that he plays more like LaMonster than LaMarshmallow. But if you can get your defensive big of the now coupled with some more assets while clearing even more cap room, then I think you have to look at it.

And I don't want to bring up Batum much in an LMA thread, but for those who don't like his play right now, do you think he forgot how after his triple-double streak? That other teams scouted him harder? Or maybe that when you can't shoot, pass or dribble without pain in your severely sprained (broken?) wrist that it just may impact your game? Honestly, I think that it's more an indictment of our bench that a hobbled Batum is still the best option to start and play 35mpg.

That was a good post, Brian. I always look forward to reading them.
 
I'd do posts like that to, but I'm too busy with work and the family. #short&sweetFAMS
 
Here's the thing though. And don't get me wrong, I love me some sanders.... Who will demand the double and give Lillard to work at the top of the key?
You're overstating the importance of the double-team. Just how often does LMA demand a double? Maybe half the time he's in the post? Maybe? So what's that, approximately 4-6 times per game? This myth that LMA's ability to draw double-teams is what's making Lillard effective is ludicrous.
Don't get me wrong - double-teams are a great way to free up an offense. But it appears that you think our entire offense is predicated on LMA being double-teamed and that's just not the case.
 
You're overstating the importance of the double-team. Just how often does LMA demand a double? Maybe half the time he's in the post? Maybe? So what's that, approximately 4-6 times per game? This myth that LMA's ability to draw double-teams is what's making Lillard effective is ludicrous.
Don't get me wrong - double-teams are a great way to free up an offense. But it appears that you think our entire offense is predicated on LMA being double-teamed and that's just not the case.

Yea OK, sure thing. We have a saying around here. Learn the game, then post.
 
You're overstating the importance of the double-team. Just how often does LMA demand a double? Maybe half the time he's in the post? Maybe? So what's that, approximately 4-6 times per game? This myth that LMA's ability to draw double-teams is what's making Lillard effective is ludicrous.
Don't get me wrong - double-teams are a great way to free up an offense. But it appears that you think our entire offense is predicated on LMA being double-teamed and that's just not the case.

Funny you say that because Roy had the issue when we had no one with a post game after Zach left. It was totally apparent during the Houston series; where he was doubled over and over. That series was lost because we had zero post game. As much as you disrespect aldridges game; his inside presence, or even ability to score inside opens the game for our guards. Plus Aldridge has gotten much better passing out of the post. This is why his assists are up and we have a solid inside out game.

Take that away and we become extremely one dimensional.

Edit: and you say it only happens 4-6 times a game? Are you basing this on his amount of shots? Talk about ludicrous... He doesn't have to shoot to factor his double. Even if you did, and account for 50%; that's still over 7 times a game. But reality is the ball goes to Aldridge at least 40% of the time. If he's doubled 50%; then he is doubled 30 times a game. That gives other offensive players 30 more advantages during the game.
 
Last edited:
I don't know if you've read the beginning statement. I said I love me some batum. What I'm questioning why he gets a pass? What do you think?
Because if you take his most recent wrist injury out of the equation, he's shown a steady and steep improvement curve in production and in consistency year after year over the entire course of his career. He still has a ways to go, but he's more productive and more consistent this season than he's ever been.
 
But reality is the ball goes to Aldridge at least 40% of the time. If he's doubled 50%; then he is doubled 30 times a game. That gives other offensive players 30 more advantages during the game.
Stop being stupid - you know that LMA doesn't get doubled 30 times a game. He doesn't go into the post 30 times a game. He spends the majority of his time approx. 18' from the hoop where he is never doubled.
I don't have #s to show how often he's in the post, so all we can do is guess. I'm guessing he probably goes into the post about 12 times per game. Not SHOOTS from the post - he does that 2.4 times a game. And so I'm very roughly extrapolating from that that he goes into the post roughly 12 times per game...that means he kicks it back out about 10 times and shoots about 2.4 times. Does that not seem reasonable? If anything I think it might be on the high side. But It seems FAR more reasonable than suggesting that he gets doubled 30x per game.
 
Funny you say that because Roy had the issue when we had no one with a post game after Zach left. It was totally apparent during the Houston series; where he was doubled over and over. That series was lost because we had zero post game. As much as you disrespect aldridges game; his inside presence, or even ability to score inside opens the game for our guards. Plus Aldridge has gotten much better passing out of the post. This is why his assists are up and we have a solid inside out game.

Take that away and we become extremely one dimensional.

Edit: and you say it only happens 4-6 times a game? Are you basing this on his amount of shots? Talk about ludicrous... He doesn't have to shoot to factor his double. Even if you did, and account for 50%; that's still over 7 times a game. But reality is the ball goes to Aldridge at least 40% of the time. If he's doubled 50%; then he is doubled 30 times a game. That gives other offensive players 30 more advantages during the game.

30? Wow. I'd say 7-8 is pretty realistic for the number of times Aldridge actually gets a double thrown at him a game.

Aldridge plays 37.7 mins, the Blazers have a pace of ~91.2 possessions per game. So that's about ~71.6 possessions that Aldridge would see if he was in for an average pace for the team. I'd generously say he gets touches in the post on about 35% of the possessions he plays, and I'd say 40% is a generous number for the post touches he actually gets doubled. Putting it all together I get about ~10.0 doubles a game.

A bit above expected, but no where near 30.
 
He draws the defense no matter where he is on the floor though, not just the post. The pick n roll helps, but it's his ability to pop that draws the attention.
 
He draws the defense no matter where he is on the floor though, not just the post. The pick n roll helps, but it's his ability to pop that draws the attention.

Not gonna get into Aldrdige in the PnR, but on PnP possessions it isn't Aldridge drawing the double team, it's Lillard. He draws 2 defenders and then passes over the top to Aldridge for the open long range 2.
 
He draws the defense no matter where he is on the floor though, not just the post. The pick n roll helps, but it's his ability to pop that draws the attention.
We're talking about double-teams, not just "drawing defense". Mags seems to think that Lillard's effectiveness is due to LMA being doubled. That's just not the case. Single-coverage is not at issue here.
Also, LMA is always left open on the pick/pop. He doesn't draw defense with that part of his game - not even single-coverage.
 
Stop being stupid - you know that LMA doesn't get doubled 30 times a game. He doesn't go into the post 30 times a game. He spends the majority of his time approx. 18' from the hoop where he is never doubled.
I don't have #s to show how often he's in the post, so all we can do is guess. I'm guessing he probably goes into the post about 12 times per game. Not SHOOTS from the post - he does that 2.4 times a game. And so I'm very roughly extrapolating from that that he goes into the post roughly 12 times per game...that means he kicks it back out about 10 times and shoots about 2.4 times. Does that not seem reasonable? If anything I think it might be on the high side. But It seems FAR more reasonable than suggesting that he gets doubled 30x per game.

Yeah stupid is saying its only 4-6 times a game. Once again you fall victim to your own hyperbole. I used your drastic underestimation and used it on the homer side. Always nice to see you fell right into that one.
 
Not gonna get into Aldrdige in the PnR, but on PnP possessions it isn't Aldridge drawing the double team, it's Lillard. He draws 2 defenders and then passes over the top to Aldridge for the open long range 2.

And if LMA was like most PF's he wouldn't be a threat out there, but he is, which brings the defense out and opens up the game for the other 3 options.

He doesn't draw defense with that part of his game - not even single-coverage.

Your hate for LMA is blinding you.
 
Last edited:
And if LMA was like most PF's he wouldn't be a threat out there, but he is, which brings the defense out and opens up the game for the other 3 options.

Blue9 will disagree. He will say defenses don't honor aldridges poor outside shooting. ;)
 
Not gonna get into Aldrdige in the PnR, but on PnP possessions it isn't Aldridge drawing the double team, it's Lillard. He draws 2 defenders and then passes over the top to Aldridge for the open long range 2.

This is correct.
 
Yeah stupid is saying its only 4-6 times a game. Once again you fall victim to your own hyperbole. I used your drastic underestimation and used it on the homer side. Always nice to see you fell right into that one.

No you didn't. You always fall back on "oh, jk" when your stupidity gets called. And perhaps I underestimated by a possession or two - but so what? There aren't any useful numbers to use. And I'm sure there are plenty of games where he sees 4 or fewer doubles. So maybe my range should be expanded from 0-8 times per game, 0-10 if we're really covering the full spectrum of possibilities. The point is, it's a myth perpetrated by you that Lillard's effectiveness is due to LMA being double-teams. THAT'S the point. But keep pushing those straw men out to deflect.
So again, what did I fall into? Oh yeah, arguing with you.
 
Blue9 will disagree. He will say defenses don't honor aldridges poor outside shooting. ;)
Do you watch the games? If you think that the defense stays with LMA rather than the ball on the P/P then you're not just dumb, you're blind and deaf too.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top