All Things ….Embiid?

[Tince]

Embiid is actually someone that could give us a shot at a ring. But I’m very very reluctant to give up sharpe if that’s what they want.

What type of career do you think Sharpe is going to have? Sounds like you think he'll be a multiple All-NBA player?

 

[Natebishop3]

What type of career do you think Sharpe is going to have? Sounds like you think he'll be a multiple All-NBA player?

I think he has that potential, yes.

And I’m not sure how many miles Embiid has left.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

What type of career do you think Sharpe is going to have? Sounds like you think he'll be a multiple All-NBA player?

I’m with Nb3. I was slower getting to the party than plenty, here.
Don’t trade Sharpe unless absolutely necessary and for an all star. I’m not thinking he”ll be Kobe, but I’m also not projecting a ceiling for him. All star? Wouldn’t surprise me at all, BUT he’s got a ton of work to do.

 

[RonBrewer]

Thats terrible compared to what they have had. And those guys are not sure things. I would see it as a wasted decade.

If Harden walks they are done anyway. Embid will leave after his contract.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I think he has that potential, yes.

And I’m not sure how many miles Embiid has left.

Honestly the sky is his limit, he has the tools of Kobe, maybe higher. Probably not the work ethic as Kobes was insane. So a ceiling somewhere between Kobe and Jordan?

Do I think it's likely he realizes that? Of course not, crazy low odds to be in the GOAT discussion. But he has the physical abilities and skills to do it unlike the 99% of players that have been Blazers.

So realistic upside is probably more a multi time 1st or 2nd All NBA player.

Embiid had knee injuries again weeks ago in the playoffs missing multiple games, in a career where he's missed many long stretches of multiple seasons. It's not like when healthy he's been a young Dwight Howard getting to the finals either. He's had some great star teammates and never got past the second round.

It would be the most Blazers thing ever to trade away that type of insane potential after a 19year olds lone season that we see get fulfilled elsewhere. All for a center with major injury history that has his career basically end from major injury shortly after being a Blazer.

Passed on Jordan for Bowie
Passed on Durant for Oden
Gave away Sharpe for Embiids broken knees

 

[HansenYang]

If Harden walks they are done anyway. Embid will leave after his contract.

That's 3-4 years away

 

[Tince]

I’m with Nb3. I was slower getting to the party than plenty, here.
Don’t trade Sharpe unless absolutely necessary and for an all star. I’m not thinking he”ll be Kobe, but I’m also not projecting a ceiling for him. All star? Wouldn’t surprise me at all, BUT he’s got a ton of work to do.

Do you see the odd thing about there being reluctance to say Sharpe will be an all-star and yet not wanting to trade him for an all-star?

And I should restate that I agree with many of the folks here who think Sharpe's ceiling is high. I also think his floor that of a role player, so there is wide range. And I'm not sure he'll be in Portland 6 years from now either.

I bring all this stuff up because it feels to me that this is one of those examples of a fan base over-valuing the potential of their young talent.

 

[KingSpeed]

Honestly the sky is his limit, he has the tools of Kobe, maybe higher. Probably not the work ethic as Kobes was insane. So a ceiling somewhere between Kobe and Jordan?

Do I think it's likely he realizes that? Of course not, crazy low odds to be in the GOAT discussion. But he has the physical abilities and skills to do it unlike the 99% of players that have been Blazers.

So realistic upside is probably more a multi time 1st or 2nd All NBA player.

Embiid had knee injuries again weeks ago in the playoffs missing multiple games, in a career where he's missed many long stretches of multiple seasons. It's not like when healthy he's been a young Dwight Howard getting to the finals either. He's had some great star teammates and never got past the second round.

It would be the most Blazers thing ever to trade away that type of insane potential after a 19year olds lone season that we see get fulfilled elsewhere. All for a center with major injury history that has his career basically end from major injury shortly after being a Blazer.

Passed on Jordan for Bowie
Passed on Durant for Oden
Gave away Sharpe for Embiids broken knees

Bowie and Oden weren’t All Stars. Embiid was MVP! Big difference. Embiid is better than Dame on both ends of the court. Putting him on the same team as Dame would be incredible. Just pretend we didn’t tank and then ask yourself would you give up Simons/Nurk for Embiid? Of course. No brainer.

 

[KingSpeed]

Didnt they tank to draft wmbeed, and Simmons? Then traded for Harden?


All of that star power didn't even get to the finals. Id call the last decade a complete waste if harden leaves and they trade embiid foe picks and young, unproven talent to start all over again.

If they get Scoot and Sharpe, how was it a waste? They will have perfectly paid it forward.

 

[Natebishop3]

Do you see the odd thing about there being reluctance to say Sharpe will be an all-star and yet not wanting to trade him for an all-star?

And I should restate that I agree with many of the folks here who think Sharpe's ceiling is high. I also think his floor that of a role player, so there is wide range. And I'm not sure he'll be in Portland 6 years from now either.

I bring all this stuff up because it feels to me that this is one of those examples of a fan base over-valuing the potential of their young talent.

How can the fan base be over-valuing Sharpe if it seems like everyone demands that he be included in any deal?

 

[Cugel]

I don't understand why Harden wants to go to Houston, other than for sentimental reasons. I feel like he was playing some of his best at Philly, at least in the regular season anyways!

 

[Tince]

How can the fan base be over-valuing Sharpe if it seems like everyone demands that he be included in any deal?

I don't read every post, but it appears the majority of posts I see would prefer to move Ant over Sharpe. Regardless, that doesn't speak to my original point.

 

[Tince]

I don't understand why Harden wants to go to Houston, other than for sentimental reasons. I feel like he was playing some of his best at Philly, at least in the regular season anyways!

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't read every post, but it appears the majority of posts I see would prefer to move Ant over Sharpe. Regardless, that doesn't speak to my original point.

I'm not talking about our fans.

I'm talking about GMs or other fanbases. I think it seems a little silly to think that Portland fans are over-valuing Sharpe, while other fanbases or front offices seem to want him involved in any trade.

 

[Tince]

I'm not talking about our fans.

I'm talking about GMs or other fanbases. I think it seems a little silly to think that Portland fans are over-valuing Sharpe, while other fanbases or front offices seem to want him involved in any trade.

I'm unsure what you're talking about. I see other fanbases talking about Ant as well. I haven't heard other front offices talking about Ant or Sharpe. Would seem odd, if not illegal, for front offices to speak about players under contract with another team.

My point continues to be about what posters here feel Sharpe will be and what they are and are not willing to take in return for him. For some, it feels like he's untradable.

 

[theprunetang]

I'm unsure what you're talking about. I see other fanbases talking about Ant as well. I haven't heard other front offices talking about Ant or Sharpe. Would seem odd, if not illegal, for front offices to speak about players under contract with another team.

My point continues to be about what posters here feel Sharpe will be and what they are and are not willing to take in return for him. For some, it feels like he's untradable.

I consider him fully untradable. We can all have different opinions. That just happens to be mine.

 

[Tince]

I consider him fully untradable. We can all have different opinions. That just happens to be mine.

Totally fair.

My opinion is that saying there is no player in the league you would give up Sharpe for is wildly over-valuing him. Which was my original point.

 

[Natebishop3]

I consider him fully untradable. We can all have different opinions. That just happens to be mine.

He isn’t untradeable to me because I would happily deal him for Giannis or Tatum or Jokic etc. but the trade would have to be a sure thing to put us into contention.

 

[Tince]

He isn’t untradeable to me because I would happily deal him for Giannis or Tatum or Jokic etc. but the trade would have to be a sure thing to put us into contention.

I agree with you here.

The post you quoted is exactly the type of thinking that has caught me by surprise. Untradable is a wild over-value, in my opinion.

 

[theprunetang]

He isn’t untradeable to me because I would happily deal him for Giannis or Tatum or Jokic etc. but the trade would have to be a sure thing to put us into contention.

I agree with these. I call him untradable, because these targets are so far from being possible that they may as well not be considered. Yes, I would trade Sharpe for one of these 3 players, but for all intents and purposes, I can call him untradable.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Do you see the odd thing about there being reluctance to say Sharpe will be an all-star and yet not wanting to trade him for an all-star?

And I should restate that I agree with many of the folks here who think Sharpe's ceiling is high. I also think his floor that of a role player, so there is wide range. And I'm not sure he'll be in Portland 6 years from now either.

I bring all this stuff up because it feels to me that this is one of those examples of a fan base over-valuing the potential of their young talent.

If we trade for a player who has been an all-star, how many future all-star seasons do we get? Two, three, maybe more?

If we keep Sharpe and he's an all-star we get every single one of those all-star seasons. Maybe it's 0, or maybe it's 10+. We have no chance at that upside with an established vet. We also get the potentially higher ceiling of 1st team all NBA. Plus we get discounted years in rookie contracts or cheaper extensions.

So just saying one is an all-star and the other is a maybe all-star ignores the majority of the benefits.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I agree with you here.

The post you quoted is exactly the type of thinking that has caught me by surprise. Untradable is a wild over-value, in my opinion.

I think you nitpicking semantics.

Some fans say untradable but they mean he shouldn't be traded for any realistic, very favorable, or even many unrealistic offers the team might receive.

If Gianni's were offered I bet nearly all fans who say Sharpe is "untradeable" would do it, that just doesn't seem like any way that's a plausible option. It's almost the same as saying would you trade Sharpe for Luka, Jokic, and Tatum. Not even really possible to get that offer.

Untradable often effectively means the player should be left out of all trade call to or from other teams, trade proposals, etc. Dame used to be at that level, but probably isn't now. The #3 pick and Ant are not at that level, to many fans Sharpe currently is.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

If they get Scoot and Sharpe, how was it a waste? They will have perfectly paid it forward.

It would be a waste of the last decade working the draft. Kicking the can down the road for a decade is a waste of a decade.
It has nothing to do with what they have moving forward.
Its all about what they did to get what they have already had, that didn't work.

Put it this way. Would you have traded Embiid, Harden and pre mental break down Simmons for sharpe and a #3 pick?


I dont thin anyone in their right mind would. So yeah. They wasted a decade if Embiid and harden leave.

 

[Tince]

If we trade for a player who has been an all-star, how many future all-star seasons do we get? Two, three, maybe more?

If we keep Sharpe and he's an all-star we get every single one of those all-star seasons. Maybe it's 0, or maybe it's 10+. We have no chance at that upside with an established vet. We also get the potentially higher ceiling of 1st team all NBA. Plus we get discounted years in rookie contracts or cheaper extensions.

So just saying one is an all-star and the other is a maybe all-star ignores the majority of the benefits.

No doubt there is risk involved. If Sharpe ends up being real good, he could have 7-8 all-star seasons in front of him. Where as a guy like Embiid almost certainly won't make 7-8 more all-star games to finish out his career. Does that mean you should trade Sharpe to get Embiid? I don't think so. There is also a chance Sharpe turns out to be JR Smith or Gerald Green. There is also a chance that Sharpe demands out after year 6. The unknowns are everywhere.

 

[Tince]

I think you nitpicking semantics.

Some fans say untradable but they mean he shouldn't be traded for any realistic, very favorable, or even many unrealistic offers the team might receive.

If Gianni's were offered I bet nearly all fans who say Sharpe is "untradeable" would do it, that just doesn't seem like any way that's a plausible option. It's almost the same as saying would you trade Sharpe for Luka, Jokic, and Tatum. Not even really possible to get that offer.

Untradable often effectively means the player should be left out of all trade call to or from other teams, trade proposals, etc. Dame used to be at that level, but probably isn't now. The #3 pick and Ant are not at that level, to many fans Sharpe currently is.

Even if what you are saying other people are thinking is correct, I still disagree. There are legal trades for Sharpe that Portland would be wild to not consider and probably crazy to not say yes to, immediately.

My original stance in all these trade the pick, trade Dame, go all-in, or blow it up threads is that Portland would be foolish to not evaluate all options on the table. Saying Sharpe or Dame is untradable would be doing a disservice. I do feel people here are over-valuing Sharpe, but that doesn't make me right and the those people wrong, or vice versa. I felt the same way when peopel fell in love with Ant's potential last spring.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

NO THANK YOU

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I always like to pose the question back to the person asking….

Would you trade Dame for Maxie, a rookie that shows promise, but nothing else and two unprotected picks most likely to land in the 20s?

Keep in mind Embiid is far more valuable than Dame to an NBA team

Someone feel free to quote this so Erik can respond if he chooses

as you wish...

 

[SharpesTriumph]

If Harden leaves we'll have to see what the 6ers get in return. If they can't contend maybe they explore Embiid trades.

To come up with a real offer we probably have to send out both Sharpe and Scoot plus something else.

Yeah the Dame Embiid duo would be amazing.

But I'm horrified we will have Embiids knees finally give out and Scoot Sharpe become 10x All-stars elsewhere.

 

[BankTeller]

If Harden leaves we'll have to see what the 6ers get in return. If they can't contend maybe they explore Embiid trades.

To come up with a real offer we probably have to send out both Sharpe and Scoot plus something else.

Yeah the Dame Embiid duo would be amazing.

But I'm horrified we will have Embiids knees finally give out and Scoot Sharpe become 10x All-stars elsewhere.

Would we have enough to trade for Embiid without trading Scoot or Sharpe? I’d argue with Schmitz’s ability to find talent late, it makes it easier to get a more enticing package together. Let’s say Grant is still here for $30m a year, and Ant is traded for Cam Johnson or Draymond—how competitive would a package of either Grant or Draymond (or Cam) + any of Kris, Rupert, Watford, Walker + Nurk’s salary + unprotected 1sts in 24, 26, 28 + 2 pick swaps be?

But yeah I’m not interested in giving up Sharpe or Scoot at the cost of Embiid. If we can get him without either guy, do it 10 times out of 10.

Dame and Embiid both have POs in 26-27, Scoot and Sharpe’s extensions don’t kick in until 27-28 and 26-27.

 

[illmatic99]

If Harden leaves we'll have to see what the 6ers get in return. If they can't contend maybe they explore Embiid trades.

To come up with a real offer we probably have to send out both Sharpe and Scoot plus something else.

Yeah the Dame Embiid duo would be amazing.

But I'm horrified we will have Embiids knees finally give out and Scoot Sharpe become 10x All-stars elsewhere.

Embiid is the kinda risky move we should be ok giving up Scoot and Sharpe for. Depending on what we can keep and how we structure the deal, it's theoretically possible to field a lineup with:

Dame/ Simons/ Thybulle/ Grant/ Embiid

I think that lineup with the correct minimum additions can compete with Denver.