Allen Crabbe signs offer sheet with Nets

[Denny Crane]

 

[B-Roy]

If Crabbe goes to BRK, Turner has better production at the '2' than the '3' anyhow. Split his time at SG/SF and that gives Harkless more time at the '3'.

Dame - 35 / CJ - 13
CJ - 22 - / Turner 18 / Montero or Connaugton - 8
Turner - 16 / Harkless - 32
Aminu - 32 / Vonleh - 16
Plumlee - 24 / Ezeli - 24

That still leaves Davis and Leonard with nor real minutes or Davis plays some PF and Vonleh doesn't get minutes. Either way, even with Crabbe not here, a consolidation may be in order soon.

Too many big men. Not enough good bigmen.

 

[illmatic99]

Yea we know

As BofWA this is a pretty big distinction. Agreed upon means we can still S&T him to the Nets. Signed means, all we can do is either match that deal or let him go.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

This discussion jogged my memory and I remembered a post I wrote last winter; it was after Crabbe had a very good first half of the season and then he was in a bad slump. What I noticed in that first half of the season is that despite the fact that Crabbe was shooting at a much more efficient pace than Lillard or McCollum, that they were not getting the ball to him consistently. They were missing him when he was open on back door cuts and they were missing him when he was open on the three point line and when he would get in a hot streak and make two or three shots, he would not see the ball again for a long time.
I think that is when we lost Crabbe, and it's ironic because haven't we always said we needed a third scorer? I think Stotts and staff have done a great job in so many areas but one thing I don't like is the star ball of Aldridge and Lillard; I would have liked to see more sharing. I understand there has to be a balance and that some guys are just better than others; but I get the feeling that Stotts has been reluctant to say let's get Crabbe more involved and to run plays for him. And maybe it came back to bite us a little.
I don't even know where I stand; could match and tell him we will get him more involved. But if we could get something decent back, and I still don't understand if that is possible...... The thing is; he is what we need now the most to round out this team; a three and D guy and how else do we get one?

 

[BBert]

OMG -- Do you people NOT get it -- CJ and Mason are up next year you have to plan in advance -- not just blow everything this year -- JUST CAUSE you can. Let me repeat thank goodness none of you work for the Blazers and influence the decisions that go on there. I will concede one fact this is where Turners deal kind of sucks because while i like Turner i believe he could have been gotten for a little cheaper like 4 for 60 to 65.

Decaf? Trades happen. Unless players walk for nothing. The Blazers could, for example, match Crabbe and trade other players. Or they could let him leave. Or they could let him leave and trade other players. I have faith in whatever Olshey's plan is for the players. He seems to be pretty good at strategy.

 

[BBert]

Team is better but i am about to Checkmate this discussion -- Can you honestly say barring injuries this team is better then the Warriors ???

ANSWER - NO --

Next ......

Did someone say that? (Not named Kingspeed... )

 

[BBert]

Crabbe is not worth that money. He's massively over-rated by Blazers fans.
We should only match if we intend to use him as an asset.

And by all the other teams wanting to sign him, apparently.

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

I said earlier this year that our RFA's were going to get offers between $12M-$15M each. Many laughed or mocked me!
This is the new alternative space-time-continuum. Crabbe got $20M.

 

[RipCityDSCPL]

because you made the initial claim and now it seems like you're not standing by it

STOMP

What is so hard to understand about this? In order for me to win the bet Crabbe would have to accomplish the goal of making the All-Star Team, meaning he would have put in the work and time to get better and improve his game, putting in the effort to actually make the team. What does Crabbe have to do to not make the team? Absolutely nothing. He could literally decide to sit on his ass and if that happens KOR would win the bet.

That is why I get 2:1 odds on the bet.

 

[BBert]

All that stuff is coming from Quick and for some reason I don't buy it.

It's coming from Quick, and you don't buy it for some reason. Hmm...I wonder...coming from Quick...don't buy it...can't think of a reason....

 

[Mediocre Man]

I said earlier this year that our RFA's were going to get offers between $12M-$15M each. Many laughed or mocked me!
This is the new alternative space-time-continuum. Crabbe got $20M.

That is not why you were laughed at and mocked

 

[Trackjack]

Can't trade him until December 15th at the earliest and there's supposedly a no trade clause.

There is trade kicker.

 

[Sinobas]

Spurs? Come on man they have one of the greatest coaches of all time and one of the top players of all time. Plus with their pedigree players take pay cuts for them

But they have a history of letting guys walk. They tend to make the roll players surrounding their core look better than they are, so teams over-value and over pay their guys.

 

[illmatic99]

Crabbe right now is pretty equivalent to Demarre Caroll before his big contract (4/60), or Wesley Matthews in UTA (similar massive jump at the time). How much do ATL and UTA regret letting these guys go? If AC can produce 12-15 ppg for us on good efficiency and above average defense in about 30 mpg, then this contract is fine. Kent Bazemore just got the same kind of contract. Matthews with his ACL got a 4yr/ 70 mil deal last season from Dallas. This is the new reality.

The trade kicker and player option sucks, but $ wise, it's not too bad. The biggest concern here is opportunity cost. Luxury tax implications, especially if we're in it in consecutive years, is going to suck, but it should not be too hard to shed contracts. Saving Paul Allen money should not bother any of us in the least bit.

For a team like ours that is just now building, and accumulating assets, we can't be giving up legit home grown talent right when we're on the cusp of breaking out. It's a bad practice for moving from a middling playoff team to a contender.

 

[Nikolokolus]

That trade kicker is a big part of why I'm not a fan. Unless he suddenly turns into an All-Star, or All-NBA caliber defender that is going to be a bitch to move.

Yes it sucks to let an asset walk away for nothing, but what sucks even more is when you end up in luxury tax territory and are completely cap constrained and lose some of the flexibility you get for staying out of the tax.

There are perfectly reasonable times to overpay for guys, that's usually to keep a championship caliber team together, but grossly overpaying your roleplayers isn't how you usually get there.

If there's any lesson I'd say it's this: This is why you should be wary of trading away your draft picks; those are the guys you turn to for cheap bench production when guys move on.

 

[illmatic99]

That trade kicker is a big part of why I'm not a fan. Unless he suddenly turns into an All-Star, or All-NBA caliber defender that is going to be a bitch to move.

You don't necessarily have to move HIM if you want to shed $. If you think Crabbe's # is moveable without the trade kicker, then Hark, Aminu, Evan, etc will all be similarly moveable.

 

[Sarni]

There's a no trade clause and we have to give it to him? Don't match then. Not a chance.

 

[e_blazer]

If there's any lesson I'd say it's this: This is why you should be wary of trading away your draft picks; those are the guys you turn to for cheap bench production when guys move on.

The fact that we are likely to have 3 first round picks in the next 2 years is great. Like you say, those guys really help keep the budget in line. Indentured servitude is great.

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

We have Connaughton and Montero on our roster that CAN play backup SG minutes. We don't have to match.

But, Crabbe blossomed last year with steady playing time and is now a somewhat proven NBA scorer.
I don't see the contract being that out of line, as we just signed a similar player in Turner for 4yr/$70M.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

There's a no trade clause and we have to give it to him? Don't match then. Not a chance.

The no-trade clause is only for the first year, and it's granted by virtue of him being a matched RFA. It would exist no matter what deal he signed.

 

[illmatic99]

The fact that we are likely to have 3 first round picks in the next 2 years is great. Like you say, those guys really help keep the budget in line. Indentured servitude is great.

There is no way the CBA allows for current rookie scale to continue.

Same with exceptions and minimum contracts.

They have to become a % of the cap.

 

[Mediocre Man]

We have Connaughton and Montero on our roster that CAN play backup SG minutes. We don't have to match.

But, Crabbe blossomed last year with steady playing time and is now a somewhat proven NBA scorer.
I don't see the contract being that out of line, as we just signed a similar player in Turner for 4yr/$70M.

I CAN play SG. Doesn't mean I should in the NBA

 

[TBpup]

We have Connaughton and Montero on our roster that CAN play backup SG minutes. We don't have to match.

But, Crabbe blossomed last year with steady playing time and is now a somewhat proven NBA scorer.
I don't see the contract being that out of line, as we just signed a similar player in Turner for 4yr/$70M.

The think is, they aren't really similar players. Crabbe is a 3-pt shooter, solid defender who fouls too much and that is about it.

Turner is a solid defender, good passer, creator, has good handles and a much better all-around game while not being as good of a 3-pt shooter. Crabbe will be paid starter money yet I don't see a starting spot available for him here. Next year would be almost $85M between Dame, CJ, Turner and Crabbe. That is a TON of cap space for just 4 players, 1 of whom wouldn't be a starter.

 

[Pinwheel1]

[

We have Connaughton and Montero on our roster that CAN play backup SG minutes. We don't have to match.

But, Crabbe blossomed last year with steady playing time and is now a somewhat proven NBA scorer.
I don't see the contract being that out of line, as we just signed a similar player in Turner for 4yr/$70M.

The interesting part to me is they are all 2nd round players or undrafted FA's. Even Crabbe and his 75 million. No doubt we have to keep our picks, but lets face it if you have a smart front office you can find these cheap nuggets in various places other than just the first round.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

[


The interesting part to me is they are all 2nd round players or undrafted FA's. Even Crabbe and his 75 million. No doubt we have to keep our picks, but lets face it if you have a smart front office you can find these cheap nuggets in various places other than just the first round.

True, but that makes it even more frustrating to think about the fact that we traded 6 second round picks in the summer of 2013 (2 for Crabbe, 2 for RoLo, and 2 for T-Rob), and if we don't match Crabbe's offer sheet, we will have absolutely nothing to show for them.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

True, but that makes it even more frustrating to think about the fact that we traded 6 second round picks in the summer of 2013 (2 for Crabbe, 2 for RoLo, and 2 for T-Rob), and if we don't match Crabbe's offer sheet, we will have absolutely nothing to show for them.

Ironically we really REALLY should have tried to resign rolo last year.

 

[Blazinaway]

The think is, they aren't really similar players. Crabbe is a 3-pt shooter, solid defender who fouls too much and that is about it.

Turner is a solid defender, good passer, creator, has good handles and a much better all-around game while not being as good of a 3-pt shooter. Crabbe will be paid starter money yet I don't see a starting spot available for him here. Next year would be almost $85M between Dame, CJ, Turner and Crabbe. That is a TON of cap space for just 4 players, 1 of whom wouldn't be a starter.

you just can't pay 3 guards, one of whom is decent and a rotation player that much money, and advanced stats say his D is just not very good

 

[B-Roy]

True, but that makes it even more frustrating to think about the fact that we traded 6 second round picks in the summer of 2013 (2 for Crabbe, 2 for RoLo, and 2 for T-Rob), and if we don't match Crabbe's offer sheet, we will have absolutely nothing to show for them.

What was it that Morey said? You have to be the team that finds Chandler Parsons, not the team that pays him.

I love Crabbe, and it pains me to say this, but I think he's gone and should be gone as well. Six 2nd rounders for nothing is a tough pill to swallow, but if you think about it, is Six seconds worth 129 million dollars (RoLo+Crabbe)? Probably not. And if you have confidence in the front office, you can hope they keep hitting on their targeted players. Turning six 2nd rounders into 129 million dollars worth of players is pretty incredible front office work if you really think about it.

 

[Blazinaway]

True, but that makes it even more frustrating to think about the fact that we traded 6 second round picks in the summer of 2013 (2 for Crabbe, 2 for RoLo, and 2 for T-Rob), and if we don't match Crabbe's offer sheet, we will have absolutely nothing to show for them.

so what? lets deal with the NOW, we made two pretty solid signings this yr and if we lose Crabbe that's the way it goes, we're still deep and we can always trade a big for a shooter if we think we need to.

 

[illmatic99]

Turner-- 4/ 70
Deng -- 4/72
Bazemore-- 4/70
Batum -- 5/125
Barnes -- 4/94
Fournier -- 5/85
Parsons -- 4/94

The new reality