Religion Americans Skeptical Of God But Think Heaven Is Real, Somehow

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There have been too many brain dead patients kept alive by machines, too many head injuries, enough understanding of the electrochemical nature of how the body works, and more than enough empirical evidence that consciousness is purely biological. When the biology fails, so does the consciousness.

Plenty of empirical evidence that a blow to the right part of the head/brain causes religious hallucinations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
 
oldfisherman said:
No offense, by I do not understand your meaning. Maybe you can give me an example of your meaning.

You say you studied religion for 5 years. I attended catholic school for 8 years, an alter boy taught by nuns. I have a cousin that I grew up with that is a priest. I have a good friend that I grew up with that is also a priest and now holds a position in the Vatican.

I have had long talks with both of them concerning the Catholic Church. I have even taken several week long vacations with my cousin/priest because he needed a break from the pressures of the church. He is very religious, but he also has many questions about the Catholic Church, and their agendas. Most of his questions revolve around decisions made by the church based on acquiring more money instead of helping the people that really need it.

So I also started to study other religions. I spent several decades trying to understand them. They all had good points, but they also all had issues that bothered me. The more I study organized religions, the more skeptical I become about them.
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Forgive me. My post was probably only meaningful to me, but to cut it short, it was in agreement with your take.

When you study religion(s) I find it necessary to isolate the essence of what is being taught. This is not all that easy to do, given the obfuscation the priests of religion place in your way fleshing out their scheme to harness the good for their use. You end up with a list of good worth of it's weight and list of burden, worthy only to someone else. not us mere laymen.

Once you have this list for one religion, the next needs to be parsed to comparable lists.
 
Denny Crane said:
There have been too many brain dead patients kept alive by machines, too many head injuries, enough understanding of the electrochemical nature of how the body works, and more than enough empirical evidence that consciousness is purely biological. When the biology fails, so does the consciousness.

Plenty of empirical evidence that a blow to the right part of the head/brain causes religious hallucinations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
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So I'm guessing that you don't believe in ghosts :lol:
 
Denny Crane said:
There have been too many brain dead patients kept alive by machines, too many head injuries, enough understanding of the electrochemical nature of how the body works, and more than enough empirical evidence that consciousness is purely biological. When the biology fails, so does the consciousness.

Plenty of empirical evidence that a blow to the right part of the head/brain causes religious hallucinations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
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Ha! Denny, I take it you would cut short the old conversations of, when does the soul leave the body? I expect you would be ready with the answer, It sure does, when you are brain dead.
But you offer nothing to the question, where does it go? That causes me to wonder if some have no soul to leave or go, surely the end biological function is total end of that being.
Do you know if you have or ever had a soul? Do you know the answer to the same question for everyone else?
 
http://www.livescience.com/26697-are-ghosts-real.html

Many people believe that support for the existence of ghosts can be found in no less a hard science than modern physics. It is widely claimed that Albert Einstein suggested a scientific basis for the reality of ghosts; if energy cannot be created or destroyed but only change form, what happens to our body's energy when we die? Could that somehow be manifested as a ghost?

It seems like a reasonable assumption — unless you understand basic physics. The answer is very simple, and not at all mysterious. After a person dies, the energy in his or her body goes where all organisms' energy goes after death: into the environment. The energy is released in the form of heat, and transferred into the animals that eat us (i.e., wild animals if we are left unburied, or worms and bacteria if we are interred), and the plants that absorb us. There is no bodily "energy" that survives death to be detected with popular ghost-hunting devices.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
.....but I think anyone who doesn't believe in some kind of creator (and therefore some kind of afterlife) isn't paying attention.
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The existence of an afterlife isn't necessarily implied by the existence of a creator. You don't have to believe in a soul to be a Deist.

As for paying attention, all current objective scientific evidence including the unequivocal implication of evolution is that everything that is "us" including our sense of self emerges from and is dependent on our physical bodies, and ceases to exist when we die.
 
crowTrobot said:
ceases to exist when we die
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Hi Crow! You begin with a solid statement. Then you close with one where you have zero evidence and no way to prove your statement.
How does a man fall so far in such a short span?
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I don't really understand why it's so depressing that you cease to exist when you die.
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I sort of understand why it can be depressing to contemplate. I think it's a natural part of our ego to feel entitled to live forever. Also I would love to know humanity's ultimate fate before I die, and I likely won't which sucks.

A solipsistic/nihilistic perspective is that everything, not just you, effectively (as far as you are concerned) ceases to exist when you die, which can also be a bummer to think about.
 
I don't believe in god or religion, but I'm not ready to say I don't believe there is something that we can't quite understand. Not something magical, but something bound by the laws of nature that we just haven't figured out yet.

There is an octopus that when it's time to mate, the male reaches in it's nostril (not a real nostril but some hole) and pulls out a sack of sperm, then sticks it in the nostril of a female through her nostril. Now, I can't figure out the how evolution worked, which steps needed to be taken, to get to the point that these octopuses could figure out how to mate in such a way. But it happened, and I understand that there are evolutionary steps that led to this.

I have no idea what happens after lights out, but I also think that at this point in time, it just doesn't matter. Either everything goes blank and there is nothing left (which is most likely) or there is some component I don't realize yet. But my fretting over this issue is inconsequential. There is no way to ever know.
 
MarAzul said:
Then you close with one where you have zero evidence and no way to prove your statement.
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I didn't say anything about proof, which is ultimately subjective, but there is plenty of evidence that all human aspects - what makes us who we are - personality, sense of self, memory etc. emerge from and require a physical body/brain.
 
e_blazer said:
We've discussed religion in multiple earlier threads, so I don't see a purpose in going down that road again. I'll just say that the existence or non-existence of a creator isn't validated or negated by a popularity poll.
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I feel like it's been a while though, and it can be fun and sometimes enlightening. People don't have their opinions changed very often but it's always nice to be open minded and try to understand a different point of view.
 
Many groups believe in an after life, not just religious groups. Some groups call them angels, others call them spirits, and sometimes ghosts. One group I find fascinating is the spirituality of the Native American Indians.

The spirituality of some of the Native American tribe’s held that animals were originally humans, and they share the same ancestors. Often a bird or other animal such as a bear held the spirit of a relative, such as a grandparent, that returned to help guide a person through some problem. I find the idea of a relative returning as a spirit to help to be much more comforting than an angel that is unknown to me.

For the Native American Indians, spirits were not a religion, but a way of life, they live it everyday.
 
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crowTrobot said:
I sort of understand why it can be depressing to contemplate. I think it's a natural part of our ego to feel entitled to live forever. Also I would love to know humanity's ultimate fate before I die, and I likely won't which sucks.
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You can always hope for an asteroid strike or a nuclear war to resolve the mystery before you step off the planet.
 
crowTrobot said:
I sort of understand why it can be depressing to contemplate. I think it's a natural part of our ego to feel entitled to live forever. Also I would love to know humanity's ultimate fate before I die, and I likely won't which sucks.

A solipsistic/nihilistic perspective is that everything, not just you, effectively (as far as you are concerned) ceases to exist when you die, which can also be a bummer to think about.
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There is no humanity after you die. ;)
 
crowTrobot said:
I didn't say anything about proof, which is ultimately subjective, but there is plenty of evidence that all human aspects - what makes us who we are - personality, sense of self, memory etc. emerge from and require a physical body/brain.
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This. Exactly this.

Paranormal or not, it makes no sense that this mythical "soul" would know anything about synapses, memories, etc. Or perceive in a compatible way: stuff you remember while drunk, with one eye open, tasted when you had a cold, ad infinitum.
 
We were created by aliens...... but who created the aliens?
 
We are on to their game. The Tammy and Jim Bakker show revealed how religion can be a scam. The Catholics have pervert priests that are hushed away from the suspicious and Jews have to contribute sizable % portions of their income. In reality Religion is boring and a manipulative game for the talented. I believe there is another universe or multiple universe concepts and time possibilities. When I die I have little to control but the clever manipulators predict your torture in hell although you won't have a body. door of crap.jpg thtreachery hell.jpg
 
Further said:
I don't believe in god
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Further said:
it just doesn't matter
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Further said:
But my fretting over this issue is inconsequential
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Just a few days ago, you said, "you didn't want to pass any genes on"

It makes me think of this fellow.
joebtfsplk_1.jpg
 
IMO human consciousness is the biggest mystery to mankind outside the universe.

From Thales of Miletus to modern-day scientists we only have theories of consciousness -- synapses and awareness.
 
Natebishop3 said:
How can someone have blind faith in Apple but not blind faith in an existence greater than himself??? :dunno:
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Steve Jobs and God do share some characteristics... and I've never seen them in a room together, so it could be.

barfo
 
Natebishop3 said:
How can someone have blind faith in Apple but not blind faith in an existence greater than himself??? :dunno:
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I don't have blind faith in Apple, or blind faith in anything. I do expect the sun will rise tomorrow.
 
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