"Andre Miller Will Be Starting By Thanksgiving..."

[andalusian]

Blaze is the most fracking pathetic mascot in the league.

I did not see them all in person, so I can not really comment. My 4 and half years old daughter loves him, fwiw.

 

[hasoos]

I did not see them all in person, so I can not really comment. My 4 and half years old daughter loves him, fwiw.

Yea thats because she hasn't been around long enough to know he sucks. Blaze is the only mascot I have seen that misses his first 2 dunks every god damn time and then falls back to the simple under the leg dunk, and gets the crowd pleased every time.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

My opinion is that we look at those times through rose colored glasses. Last year Joel's TS% was significantly better than what it was during that time, his TOV% was lower - and it was done with a lower usage%. He was used super efficiently. Sure, he might have had better scoring nights than - but if they were not efficient - why is it good?

I enjoyed your cherry picking of stats by comparing the 2004-2005 season to only last year where Joel was helped by limited shots and an abnormally high field goal percentage to start the season. However, it is true that Joel was a horrid free throw shooter during the 2004-2005 season; of course, he was a horrid free throw shooter up until 2007-2008, too, but I'm not sure how it could be correlated that if he started receiving the ball on the PnR again his FT shooting would plummet back to 04/05 levels.

Joel's field goal percentage in 04-05, however, was the second highest of his career outside of last year (again boosted by his incredible run to start the season hovering around 75-80%). Joel also had more shot attempts that year than any other in 333 where last year was his second highest total with 269.

You mentioned turnovers, and it is true that during his PnR roll years he had 98 turnovers 1858 minutes and last year he was down to 78 (although in 07/08 he was back up to 95). However, in 2004-2005 he also had 74 assists to his 98 turnovers where last year he had 27 to 78. I would consider that outside of the free throw shooting in 2004-2005 (which he worked hard on starting in the summer of 2007) he was far more efficient offensively in 2004-2005.

Shocking that we ran the pick and roll that year so well, and it has mysteriously widdled down to sparse effective use since that time.

 

[Uther TheGardener]

Dave from this morning's blazersedge.com story...



Couldn't agree more, that Andre needs to be freed, and a lot depends on Brandon allowing it to happen ...

the team needs to be freed...from Nate!

 

[andalusian]

I enjoyed your cherry picking of stats by comparing the 2004-2005 season to only last year where Joel was helped by limited shots and an abnormally high field goal percentage to start the season.

I cherry-picked 2004-5 because it was the only year he played next to Nick and Damon, as was mentioned in the message I was replying to. It's hard to look at Joel's production with these guys if they are not playing on the same team as him.

For the record, Joel's TS% was highest in the two "healthy" seasons he played next to Roy - which were last year and the year before that. The first year he played next to Roy he missed a lot of the year - not to mention that it was also Roy's rookie year.

However, it is true that Joel was a horrid free throw shooter during the 2004-2005 season; of course, he was a horrid free throw shooter up until 2007-2008, too, but I'm not sure how it could be correlated that if he started receiving the ball on the PnR again his FT shooting would plummet back to 04/05 levels.

Who knows? But does it really matter? Even last year Joel was a 66% free-throw shooter. Not exactly good for his TS%... Minimizing the number of times Joel has to go to the free-throw line is not exactly a bad idea.

Joel's field goal percentage in 04-05, however, was the second highest of his career outside of last year (again boosted by his incredible run to start the season hovering around 75-80%). Joel also had more shot attempts that year than any other in 333 where last year was his second highest total with 269.

OK.

You mentioned turnovers, and it is true that during his PnR roll years he had 98 turnovers 1858 minutes and last year he was down to 78 (although in 07/08 he was back up to 95). However, in 2004-2005 he also had 74 assists to his 98 turnovers where last year he had 27 to 78. I would consider that outside of the free throw shooting in 2004-2005 (which he worked hard on starting in the summer of 2007) he was far more efficient offensively in 2004-2005.

I thought before and still think now that Joel is a bad guy to be the target of your PnR. You wish to think this is not so. Fair enough.

All I know, so far, this year, is that with Miller playing more next to him which I was told will lead Joel to be an effective PnR player - he is at 33% TOV%. One out of 3 possessions he is involved in ends in a turn-over. It was less than 1 in 5 last year. So far Joel is also shooting the ball at pretty bad percentages as well. (0.429 TS% - yikes).Sure, it's a small sample size - but I have not seen anything that leads me to believe Joel should really be featured more on offense.

Shocking that we ran the pick and roll that year so well, and it has mysteriously widdled down to sparse effective use since that time.

Shocking that we were an awful team that year as well. If Joel needs to be a big part of your offensive program - you are not going to be a good team is what I am taking from it. He turns the ball a lot, he shoots free-throws rather poorly. He is exactly the kind of guy you value for what he brings without trying to make him something he is not.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I cherry-picked 2004-5 because it was the only year he played next to Nick and Damon, as was mentioned in the message I was replying to. It's hard to look at Joel's production with these guys if they are not playing on the same team as him.

For the record, Joel's TS% was highest in the two "healthy" seasons he played next to Roy - which were last year and the year before that. The first year he played next to Roy he missed a lot of the year - not to mention that it was also Roy's rookie year.



Who knows? But does it really matter? Even last year Joel was a 66% free-throw shooter. Not exactly good for his TS%... Minimizing the number of times Joel has to go to the free-throw line is not exactly a bad idea.



OK.



I thought before and still think now that Joel is a bad guy to be the target of your PnR. You wish to think this is not so. Fair enough.

All I know, so far, this year, is that with Miller playing more next to him which I was told will lead Joel to be an effective PnR player - he is at 33% TOV%. One out of 3 possessions he is involved in ends in a turn-over. It was less than 1 in 5 last year. So far Joel is also shooting the ball at pretty bad percentages as well. (0.429 TS% - yikes).Sure, it's a small sample size - but I have not seen anything that leads me to believe Joel should really be featured more on offense.



Shocking that we were an awful team that year as well. If Joel needs to be a big part of your offensive program - you are not going to be a good team is what I am taking from it. He turns the ball a lot, he shoots free-throws rather poorly. He is exactly the kind of guy you value for what he brings without trying to make him something he is not.

You, like a few others, are misinterpreting the call for the bigs to be involved in the pick and roll (or for us to even use a pick and roll where the roller gets the ball) as a suggestion that they become a big part of the offense. That is simply not true and isn't what is being asked at all and I think you guys know it, but want to argue for some reason. What is being asked is that we make the other team respect our bigs by passing them the ball on the pick and roll a few times a game, that we use the pick and roll a few times (instead of our constant use of pick and pop) so that both guys don't collapse on Roy when it is run.

When Joel is on the floor we're basically playing 4-5 on the offensive side of the ball and it is a waste when Joel, despite his absolutely awful hands, was pretty competent at running and receiving the pass as a roller. We're now building the same trend with Greg, and that's a shame. You'll excuse me if I think it is a coach issue when we've had multiple personnel with a history of being able to run it competently but they've all faltered when under Nate.

There is absolutely nothing negative about trying to get easy buckets in the paint for Joel and Greg a few times a game to keep the defense honest. You may say a turnover resulting from this play is a negative, whereas I will say it is something we must deal with in implementing this in our offense. Nate, despite his attempts to do so, cannot control every player, cannot have make a system that is so rigid and rudimentary that turnovers are nearly impossible because it will not take us any where. Risks are necessary in learning and keeping up plays that are a great reward and help to the team overall.

That doesn't mean Joel should be a big part of our offense, but he should be enough of a part where the other team has to respect him on the offensive end outside of rebounding. That is far more harmful to our team than a turnover.

 

[MARIS61]

Since trading Miller is the only way to right this lilting ship, he'll need to start to hold some trade value.

Glad KP is willing to admit his mistake and deal with it now.

 

[andalusian]

You, like a few others, are misinterpreting the call for the bigs to be involved in the pick and roll (or for us to even use a pick and roll where the roller gets the ball) as a suggestion that they become a big part of the offense. That is simply not true and isn't what is being asked at all and I think you guys know it, but want to argue for some reason. What is being asked is that we make the other team respect our bigs by passing them the ball on the pick and roll a few times a game, that we use the pick and roll a few times (instead of our constant use of pick and pop) so that both guys don't collapse on Roy when it is run.

I disagree. Joel is not a PnR guy - so using him this way does not change how people respect or disrespect him.

When Joel is on the floor we're basically playing 4-5 on the offensive side of the ball and it is a waste when Joel, despite his absolutely awful hands, was pretty competent at running and receiving the pass as a roller.

Not really. Joel setting a pick for Roy is an important part of the offense - Roy can't just set picks for himself - and Joel is arguably our best pick setting big, and is used extensively to set them. I just do not think that the roll part is that important for him. Again - compare the attempts for Joel when he was used more for the Pick and Roll in 2004-5 and last year - he got an extra 1.5 attempts per 36 minutes. Not a huge difference. Having Roy attack the basket after a pick makes offensive rebounding easy for Joel - leading to that great FG% he experienced. This is using him based on his skills. It helps free Roy to attack, score or cause the defense to collapse helping him find someone else open or Joel to get an easy offensive rebound.

We're now building the same trend with Greg, and that's a shame. You'll excuse me if I think it is a coach issue when we've had multiple personnel with a history of being able to run it competently but they've all faltered when under Nate.

Greg is having an awful time hanging to the ball - but they still are trying to go to him more than Joel.

There is absolutely nothing negative about trying to get easy buckets in the paint for Joel and Greg a few times a game to keep the defense honest. You may say a turnover resulting from this play is a negative, whereas I will say it is something we must deal with in implementing this in our offense.

I have no problems with it with Greg - which is why I do not mind having his turn-overs. Joel, however, is a lost cause at this point, as an offensive target imho.

Nate, despite his attempts to do so, cannot control every player, cannot have make a system that is so rigid and rudimentary that turnovers are nearly impossible because it will not take us any where. Risks are necessary in learning and keeping up plays that are a great reward and help to the team overall.

Absolutely agree when it comes to Greg - because I think he can at some point become more of an offensive threat. Joel... not so much.

That doesn't mean Joel should be a big part of our offense, but he should be enough of a part where the other team has to respect him on the offensive end outside of rebounding. That is far more harmful to our team than a turnover.

Well, I disagree. Joel is what he is. At the end of the day - I do not think that Roy is the problem in the PnR equation. The problem is that we got lousy targets for it. And my opinion is - that it would be much better to have Roy develop the skill for entry passes and PnR with Greg than Miller - because Miller is a stop-gap solution at best. So - honestly - taking the ball away from Roy for Miller's sake is just not a real solution - in my opinion, because even if it helps Greg develop - it is not going to help Roy develop that aspect of the PnR with Greg. So - what did we achieve in 2 years time when Miller is no longer with the team?

 

[blazerboy30]

My opinion is that we look at those times through rose colored glasses. Last year Joel's TS% was significantly better than what it was during that time, his TOV% was lower - and it was done with a lower usage%. He was used super efficiently. Sure, he might have had better scoring nights than - but if they were not efficient - why is it good?

This year, so far, being on the same unit as Miller - who is trying to incorporate him - Joel's TOV% is at an all time high... last year - it was at an all time low. Any way you look at it - Joel is a high TOV% guy - he is over 20% for his career.

IMO, you're looking at that analysis incorrectly. It isn't a question of whether Joel had a higher TS% last year versus the year when they ran him in a lot of P-N-Rs.

You need to look at whether his TS% while running a lot of pick-n-rolls was higher than what the team would normally get without Joel shooting at all.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but just because Joel had a lower TS% running the pick-and-roll than he did when not running it, doesn't mean it isn't better for the team's efficiency to run the PNR.

 

[Blaze01]

I was in the game - thank you for asking.

Look in at the popcorn machine for Brandon's +/- numbers with and without Miller.

Q1 - Brandon played the entire quarter. Miller came in the last 3 minutes. Brandon is +10 for the quarter. Miller is +4. So Roy was + with and without Miller.

Q2 - Miller played the entire quarter. Brandon played a little more than half. Brandon is -5 for the Quarter. Miller is -9.

Q3 - Brandon played all the quarter and he is -4 for it. Miller played about 1/3 of the quarter and he is -7 for it. This tells you that Roy was +3 for the time he played without Miller - but the time with Miller on the floor killed his production.

Q4 - Miller starts, Brandon is out. When Brandon is back - they are _/- 0. Then they are +2 until Miller comes out, and when Miller is back - (and they play together) - they are -3 in the stint they are together. In the 2 minutes brandon was on the court without miller they are na extra -1 if I do my math correctly.

The data seems to confirm my observation. Spacing sucks when Miller and Roy are on the court together.

I was at the game as well, and spacing wasn't the issue...not sure what the heck you are watching out there......

The problem is the offense and Roy's role within the offense....

Last year, most teams didn't come out and double Roy right away, which gave him room to manuever\creat for himself or kick it out to "the shooters" on the wing....

that isn't happening this year, and certainly didn't happen last night and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with Andre Miller....

You know if Roy gets the ball with 8-10 seconds left, then tries to create...gets doubled and then has to pass to a teamate...then you have trouble...because then you have Blake with the ball with 2 seconds left and a defnder closed out on him...trying to create a shot for himself, which is not good at all...or Travis Outlaw, not knowing how much time he has left on the shot clock, or trying to force a shot, or if HE gets the ball with 8-10 seconds left...wasting half of that time DECIDING what he wants to do...it is a totally inept offense...and again Miller's "spacing" has nothing to do with that....

I think you are refering to ONE PLAY last night where Miller made a pass to Roy (or vice versa, I can't quite remember?) who was cutting towards Miller and they nearly turned the ball over...ONE PLAY...the rest of the PISS POOR offfense was entirely a result of the team standing around looking for Roy (or Outlaw) to create...and when they couldn't being forced to jack up some half assed shot attempt because the shot clock was nearly at zero...that is if there wasn't a turnover or a bad shot attempt....

So, yeah, I am not sure that you were actually WATCHING the game...

 

[andalusian]

So, yeah, I am not sure that you were actually WATCHING the game...

Apparently we did not interpret the game in the same way. Maybe you are right - but I am telling you what I thought was the biggest issue.

 

[PHXBlazer1]

He should have been starting from day 1. Anyone who thinks differently has an agenda that doesn't include our team being the best it can be.

 

[KingSpeed]

Its a myth that our offense was good last year. It was predictable, and the good teams shut us down because of that. Houston shut us down in the playoffs and Brandon was asking for help. Well, now he has help, but he is too spoiled to give up control to someone with a track record of 11 years of success.

11 years of not making it out of the first round?

 

[blue32]

I'll wager a case of Mirrorpond that he starts tonight...

 

[KingSpeed]

what is Mirrorpond?

 

[RR7]

I'll take that bet.

I thought it was already announced Blake was starting.