Billups makes no sense - Grant should not be starting

[wizenheimer]

The Blazers reached an agreement with Grant on June 30th. Dame asked out on July 1st. Grant’s contract was signed July 5th.

Grant signed on July 9th, which was the 4th day after the moratorium ended

I have never read anywhere that an agreement with Grant was reached in June. And I sure haven't read anywhere that the Blazers made signing Grant contingent on Dame staying and that Dame double-crossed them.

seems like people are just imagining bad things about Lillard now

 

[wizenheimer]

No proof, but I'd bet that Grant reached an agreement with the Blazers in February 2024.

you mean 2023, right?

 

[Foxx]

Dear Baby Jesus if you could just remind Jerami he should never handle the ball again - that’s all I ask

 

[HansenYang]

you mean 2023, right?

Yeah... My mistake.

 

[wizenheimer]

This is how I remember it as well. It was up in the air until after the draft. Then Dame demanded out. Grant was signed prior to the draft.

Grant was signed 17 days AFTER the draft...17 days

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah... My mistake.

I guess it's even possible that Cronin and Grant reached an informal agreement in the 2022 off-season after Grant was traded to Portland. And that Grant played the final year of his last deal with an assurance he'd be getting a new deal AFTER a new CBA. IIRC the maximum raise under an extension in the old CBA was 20% meaning Grant would have had a max base salary/1st-year of 24M.

trying to blame the Grant contract on Dame is bogus. This was all Cronin

 

[Rastapopoulos]

the reports of Dame asking for at trade came out on July 1st and the gist was he'd asked for a trade at least a couple days earlier, shortly after the Scoot selection and no draft day trades

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...il-blazers-star-damian-lillard-requests-trade
https://www.si.com/nba/2023/07/01/damian-lillard-requests-trade-portland-trail-blazers

Grant signed his deal on July 9

View attachment 71248

https://www.prosportstransactions.c...ndDate=&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&Submit=Search

"The gist"?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Grant signed on July 9th, which was the 4th day after the moratorium ended

People agree to contracts some time before they SIGN them, right? I can fully understand if Jerami agreed before Dame asked out and Cronin felt duty-bound to honor the agreement even after Dame asked out.

 

[e_blazer]

Grant signed on July 9th, which was the 4th day after the moratorium ended

I have never read anywhere that an agreement with Grant was reached in June. And I sure haven't read anywhere that the Blazers made signing Grant contingent on Dame staying and that Dame double-crossed them.

seems like people are just imagining bad things about Lillard now

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...erami-grant-agree-5-year-deal-nba-free-agency

You're right on the July 9th date. I misread the article I looked at.

I never said anything about Dame double-crossing the Blazers, so I assume that's aimed at somebody else's post.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Grant signed on July 9th, which was the 4th day after the moratorium ended

I have never read anywhere that an agreement with Grant was reached in June. And I sure haven't read anywhere that the Blazers made signing Grant contingent on Dame staying and that Dame double-crossed them.

seems like people are just imagining bad things about Lillard now

Nah, I like Dame. This was just the feeling I had as it was going down.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The point is though, no matter how much he might want to Joe CAN'T trade Grant unless it's for a similarly distressed asset which there are very few of leaguewide. Why posters continue to act like this is and has been a reasonable possibility thats just sitting on the table waiting for him to act on, let alone laughably suggest he's holding out for 1st round picks shows them to be clueless to whats at play here. It takes two to tango on a trade and no franchise has a good reason to show up to the Jerami trade dance no matter who is calling the shots for the PTB. No one will next offseason, or next trade deadline, etc... He's all ours which does suck, but thats reality going forward.

Heck, I'd love to see him off the books and wishfully entertained the thought that they might be able to move him for Middleton this past deadline following someone starting a thread on it. Grant being Dame's buddy made some sense for them & they need another forward to compete with their aging roster. Despite Khris seeming to be physically done as age and surgeries have robbed him of mobility, I suggested that Middleton's expiring deal was so much better an asset to hold that Portland would have to include draft capitol to sweeten the pot for the Bucks. Of course instead they shipped KM off for the selfish headcase that is Kyle Kuzma and his 10 PER. Compared to Grant though, Kuzma is a year younger & makes less then 2/3rds as much on a contract that expires a year earlier. While KK is a decidedly worse player to have on a roster then Grant IMO, he's much less of a financial anchor. He's a crappy asset for a franchise to hold, but Grant is worse

STOMP

Grant had a better than expected production last season and there were a lack of vets available over the summer in trade. All the national reporting was that teams (LAL, Sac, Detroit, etc) were interested in Grant but Cronin was insisting on a high level of value back - pick(s).

We'll never know exactly these details so this game can always be played of justifying that "Cronin had no better options" that is used to excuse his inactivity. The fact is he did assemble every one on this overpaid useless veteran core which is paid $100+ million in Ayton, Grant, Ant, Thybulle, Timelord. This whole time its been very clear the Blazers are embarking on a long term rebuild and these vets make no long term sense on this roster.

 

[inconceivable]

For me, it makes sense to display Grant to up his trade value.

He plays well, we could package him with our pick to move up

We don't play him enough, we will not get what Cronin wants for him. I mean JC stood pad because he has set a value for Grant and did not accept any low offers.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Grant signed on July 9th, which was the 4th day after the moratorium ended

I have never read anywhere that an agreement with Grant was reached in June. And I sure haven't read anywhere that the Blazers made signing Grant contingent on Dame staying and that Dame double-crossed them.

seems like people are just imagining bad things about Lillard now

Why are you stating the date Grant signed the deal? We never see NBA teams back out of verbal offers - and that was a week and a half earlier.

Grant verbally agreed to his Blazers deal the day prior to Dame asking out.

Now if Dame waiting until his friend secured a $160 million bag or it was all just a coincidence is open to peoples opinions and speculation.

I do remember Ramona Shelburn saying both Grant and the Blazers had full eyes wide open of what was going on. Dame met with his agent and Cronin days earlier and had basically demanded the team trade the #3 if they want him to stay so none of these sides were surprised by anything.

 

[wizenheimer]

Grant verbally agreed to his Blazers deal the day prior to Dame asking out.

can you supply a link for that? I have never read or heard anything that supports that

I think it's quite probable that Grant and Cronin made an informal agreement in the summer of 2022 after Grant arrived in Portland. He was in the final year of his deal. I'd bet there was discussion about an extension, but that Grant didn't want an extension because of the limit for raises in the previous CBA

 

[SharpesTriumph]

For me, it makes sense to display Grant to up his trade value.

He plays well, we could package him with our pick to move up

We don't play him enough, we will not get what Cronin wants for him. I mean JC stood pad because he has set a value for Grant and did not accept any low offers.

We've done this for two years and he's still here.

How many years do we try and "up his trade value"??? Four years so we can capitalize on that return when he's an expiring contract?

This also isn't 1995 where the Knicks try to overpay with every player that scores a bunch of points on poor efficiency. Every team is using advanced stats to measure all of the players contributions 100x more in depth than the posters on this board. Pretty obvious that Grant with his 11.5 PER - the lowest since his rookie contract - is not a good value while being paid $160 million. Forcing him minutes/shots/touches to try and prop up that trade value higher sure doesn't sound like a good plan.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

can you supply a link for that? I have never read or heard anything that supports that

I think it's quite probable that Grant and Cronin made an informal agreement in the summer of 2022 after Grant arrived in Portland. He was in the final year of his deal. I'd bet there was discussion about an extension, but that Grant didn't want an extension because of the limit for raises in the previous CBA

20mins into free agency on 6/30
Dame asked out on 7/1



http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/jerami-grant-5-160.382251/

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

For me, it makes sense to display Grant to up his trade value.

He plays well, we could package him with our pick to move up

We don't play him enough, we will not get what Cronin wants for him. I mean JC stood pad because he has set a value for Grant and did not accept any low offers.

I believe if we packaged him with our pick that teams would ask us to move down,

 

[STOMP]

Grant had a better than expected production last season and there were a lack of vets available over the summer in trade. All the national reporting was that teams (LAL, Sac, Detroit, etc) were interested in Grant but Cronin was insisting on a high level of value back - pick(s).

We'll never know exactly these details so this game can always be played of justifying that "Cronin had no better options" that is used to excuse his inactivity. The fact is he did assemble every one on this overpaid useless veteran core which is paid $100+ million in Ayton, Grant, Ant, Thybulle, Timelord. This whole time its been very clear the Blazers are embarking on a long term rebuild and these vets make no long term sense on this roster.

sorry, "reports" on this never passed the smell test. Its on the individual for believing obvious bullshit like this

Teams never talk to reporters to tell them what they're thinking about doing... see the Luka trade. Agents regularly do, but they lie a hell of a lot. "Reporters" have to report something or they're out a job, even if it's passing along weak speculative stuff they know isn't true for the gullible so needing something/anything they'll keep tuning in. SOS every offseason & trade deadline... are you going to fall for it again next offseason?

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

"The gist"?

yeah...the gist

like how for weeks before the 2023 draft whenever Dame was asked about it he made it pretty clear he expected the Blazers to leverage that 3rd pick in a bigger trade for veteran help. I'm pretty sure he wasn't saying that without some indication from Cronin that the Blazers would try

then, not only didn't the Blazers make a trade, they drafted a PG and made it clear they were keeping him. So then we have the people who want to try and assign blame to Dame for Grant's contract assuming that the agreement with Grant was reached several days before he actually signed because otherwise, the dates don't align with their narrative. But if that's true then the same logic would have to apply to when Dame actually asked for a trade, not when it was reported

I think that Dame asking out and Grant signing a new deal had no connection. I think Cronin intended to re-sign Grant no matter what. If Cronin actually felt bamboozled into the Grant contract, he would not have been demanding 2 first's for Grant in a trade. He'd have been anxious to dump Grant...but he's obviously not

 

[wizenheimer]

20mins into free agency on 6/30
Dame asked out on 7/1



http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/jerami-grant-5-160.382251/

thx

 

[inconceivable]

I believe if we packaged him with our pick that teams would ask us to move down,

At current JG value, maybe. That is why he is starting, to allow him to increase his value.

If Cronin has given up on him, he would have traded him at the deadline for peanuts. But the fact he is being showcased, it means Cronin wants him to play well to be desired by other teams so we salvage a respectable return for him

 

[SharpesTriumph]

sorry, "reports" on this never passed the smell test. Its on the individual for believing obvious bullshit like this

Teams never talk to reporters to tell them what they're thinking about doing... see the Luka trade. Agents regularly do, but they lie a hell of a lot. "Reporters" have to report something or they're out a job, even if it's passing along weak speculative stuff they know isn't true for the gullible so needing something/anything they'll keep tuning in. SOS every offseason & trade deadline... are you going to fall for it again next offseason?

STOMP

Yes there are trades that come out of nowhere - but we see plenty of reports that do lead to the actual deals though. That happens more often than a trade out of the blue with zero rumors.

Grant was heavily reported to PDX months before that trade.

Ayton to Portland for a couple years - then most certainly for weeks that he was coming to PDX prior to the Dame trade.

Brogdon reported to be the odd man out and most likely moved before the Deni trade.

Thybulle reported here again multiple times until that deal with the 6ers happened.

Clingan and Sharpe were heavily rumored as the main guys the Blazers locked on before the draft.

The noise with Grant and the Lakers basically mirrored all of those - with the holldup always being multiple pick(s) that Cronin was insisting on.

 

[wizenheimer]

I've never understood why people expected the Lakers to consider giving up two 1st's for Grant considering the Hachimura vs Grant comparison:

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I've never understood why people expected the Lakers to consider giving up two 1st's for Grant considering the Hachimura vs Grant comparison:

View attachment 71249

During the season it made zero sense.

I thought for maybe one pick in the summer and if so Cronin should jump at it. But to your point, tons of posters were insisting Cronin should hold out for two picks.

Grant has been awful this season.

 

[sheed30]

Nobody here wants Grant to start. There needs to be a protest at the Moda center.

Protest huh? Hahahaha

such a Portland thing to say and want to do haha.

 

[Natebishop3]

20mins into free agency on 6/30
Dame asked out on 7/1



http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/jerami-grant-5-160.382251/

I vaguely remember reports that Dame was gonna see what we did at the start of free agency before making a decision. But I also remember reading that he met with Joe and asked out and Joe asked them to sit on it for a few days. I might be wrong. It was crazy back then.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I vaguely remember reports that Dame was gonna see what we did at the start of free agency before making a decision. But I also remember reading that he met with Joe and asked out and Joe asked them to sit on it for a few days. I might be wrong. It was crazy back then.

Your right, Joe and Dame and Dame's agent met a few days after the draft (June 26) and a few days before free agency. For years Dame always said you wouldn't hear a bunch of hoopla or rumors or such if he asked out, it would just be a private meeting with himself his agent and the GM.

It was reported Dame was going to ask out in that meeting but Cronin asked Dame to wait a few days for them to try other moves. Dame said the Blazers needed to resign Grant, stop being frugal under the tax, and acquire a key vet for Dame to play with.

Then the day after free agency when nobody new agreed to deals with the Blazers (Draymond signing, OG trade, DeRozen trade, etc) Dame asked out - to ONE team.

 

[STOMP]

Yes there are trades that come out of nowhere - but we see plenty of reports that do lead to the actual deals though. That happens more often than a trade out of the blue with zero rumors.

Grant was heavily reported to PDX months before that trade.

Ayton to Portland for a couple years - then most certainly for weeks that he was coming to PDX prior to the Dame trade.

Brogdon reported to be the odd man out and most likely moved before the Deni trade.

Thybulle reported here again multiple times until that deal with the 6ers happened.

Clingan and Sharpe were heavily rumored as the main guys the Blazers locked on before the draft.

The noise with Grant and the Lakers basically mirrored all of those - with the holldup always being multiple pick(s) that Cronin was insisting on.

Again, the reports made no sense. Think about it. It’s beyond laughable to think that Joe is insisting on multiple picks for Grant… do you believe everything you read on the internet? A vast majority of rumors never happen because a vast majority are BS spread by agents.

What’s especially laughable is posters saying it’s the GM being the idiot for not doing deals that were obviously never on the table.

STOMP

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Again, the reports made no sense. Think about it. It’s beyond laughable to think that Joe is insisting on multiple picks for Grant… do you believe everything you read on the internet? A vast majority of rumors never happen because a vast majority are BS spread by agents.

What’s especially laughable is posters saying it’s the GM being the idiot for not doing deals that were obviously never on the table.

STOMP

"The GM is such an idiot for not doing these deals discussed in unsubstantiated reports that I choose to believe because I think the GM is an idiot!"

 

[Natebishop3]

"The GM is such an idiot for not doing these deals discussed in unsubstantiated reports that I choose to believe because I think the GM is an idiot!"

So either our players aren’t worth Jack shit, or other GMs think they can take advantage of Joe. Otherwise it makes no sense to hold onto Grant and Williams.