Anfernee Simons trade destinations

[Phatguysrule]

We need outside shooting and better scoring, period

You want to know how many points per game we averaged as a team last season without Ant? In the 36 games Ant didnt play, we averaged 102.4 PPG as a team. That's good for LAST in the NBA. With Ant we scored 109.4 PPG.

If you want Scoot to actually thrive, its best to surround him with shooters. Scoot wont be able to excel as much if teams are just sagging off him daring him to shoot 3's. He won't be able to do what he does best at the moment which is use his speed and athleticism to blow by defenders.

Well, we are going to play Sharpe and Deni and they can both shoot. Camara is at 34%.. and that's bound to improve.

 

[sheed30]

No. In this comparison none of that matters because Lauri Markkanen is far more productive than Ant.

And if you're not talking straight up then I don't know what to say. We don't need Lauri Markkanen either. He'll only hurt our chances at getting a better pick the next couple years even more than Ant will, because he's better. I definitely wouldn't want to throw more assets in to make that trade.

We really need to send Ant out for draft capital because nobody who has good young players is going to want to trade them for Ant. I guess we could get lucky and someone gifts us something but I certainly wouldn't count on it.

I'd think the Lakers would be interested in Ant...

Sending out Ant for draft capital doesn’t make sense to me.

Haven’t we had high draft picks the last 3 drafts?

Sharpe at 7
Scoot at 3
Cling at 7…


That’s 3 guys already, how many more do you want?

There an also the fact that there is no clue as what draft capital can get us in the future. It’s a risk.

If you told me we are guaranteed to get a Tatum, a Embiid, a Luka in a future draft, then I’m all for it.

But that pick could also become a Fultz, a Ben Simmons, a Oden. Heck remember Martell Webster, who we picked at 6th.

There is enough young pieces on our team, let them grow for now. We should be hoping for big improvements from Sharpe and Scoot.

 

[blazerkor]

We need outside shooting and better scoring, period

You want to know how many points per game we averaged as a team last season without Ant? In the 36 games Ant didnt play, we averaged 102.4 PPG as a team. That's good for LAST in the NBA. With Ant we scored 109.4 PPG.

If you want Scoot to actually thrive, its best to surround him with shooters. Scoot wont be able to excel as much if teams are just sagging off him daring him to shoot 3's. He won't be able to do what he does best at the moment which is use his speed and athleticism to blow by defenders.

If you are talking potential weak areas in the roster that need to be addressed then that's great. We can address those needs through future draft picks and trades. The fact that you missed is that the only thing we need right now is to make sure we're putting our current prospects in the best positions to develop and acquiring as many additional assets to assist in the rebuild as we possibly can.

Dude, you've already blown your credibility when it comes to Ant. You think he's close to Lauri Markkanen level in terms of value. So, I'll leave you to it. I'm glad Ant has a super fan in you. I don't think he helps the rebuild but I wouldn't just dump him. Hopefully our front office will find a deal that sends him somewhere to help that team win now and sends us great value in win later assets.

 

[sheed30]

If you are talking potential weak areas in the roster that need to be addressed then that's great. We can address those needs through future draft picks and trades. The fact that you missed is that the only thing we need right now is to make sure we're putting our current prospects in the best positions to develop and acquiring as many additional assets to assist in the rebuild as we possibly can.

Dude, you've already blown your credibility when it comes to Ant. You think he's close to Lauri Markkanen level in terms of value. So, I'll leave you to it. I'm glad Ant has a super fan in you. I don't think he helps the rebuild but I wouldn't just dump him. Hopefully our front office will find a deal that sends him somewhere to help that team win now and sends us great value in win later assets.

I think it's more the other way around when it comes to you guys trying to play GM and sending out Ant for some of the garbage I've seen on here. It's laughable

 

[Phatguysrule]

Sending out Ant for draft capital doesn’t make sense to me.

Haven’t we had high draft picks the last 3 drafts?

Sharpe at 7
Scoot at 3
Cling at 7…


That’s 3 guys already, how many more do you want?

There an also the fact that there is no clue as what draft capital can get us in the future. It’s a risk.

If you told me we are guaranteed to get a Tatum, a Embiid, a Luka in a future draft, then I’m all for it.

But that pick could also become a Fultz, a Ben Simmons, a Oden. Heck remember Martell Webster, who we picked at 6th.

There is enough young pieces on our team, let them grow for now. We should be hoping for big improvements from Sharpe and Scoot.

Well if you have about an 80% chance of not drafting an all star, even if you have a high lotto pick (which sounds about right to me), then I'd want 5 or 6 chances. Hopefully we'll nab 1 or 2 future all stars in that time (we'll certainly have the opportunity to do so), but we'll also get some good young pieces around them.

If we don't get high lotto picks the next 2 or 3 drafts we're more than likely not going to contend before we have to rebuild again.

Unfortunately that's just the way it is. That's the choice we made when we dealt Dame.

 

[sheed30]

Well if you have about an 80% chance of not drafting an all star, even if you have a high lotto pick (which sounds about right to me), then I'd want 5 or 6 chances. Hopefully we'll nab 1 or 2 future all stars in that time (we'll certainly have thw opportunity to do so), but we'll also get some good young pieces around them.

If we don't get high lotto picks the next 2 or 3 drafts we're more than likely not going to contend before we have to rebuild again.

Unfortunately that's just the way it is. That's the choice we made when we dealt Dame.

Well, if you want high draft picks in the next 2/3 drafts. No need to change the current squad, unless huge improvements from Scoot and Sharpe we are still a lottery team lol. Making our team worse, and putting our young guys in a even tougher spot, Scoot with no shooters for example and sending out Ant, our best shooter next to Grant, doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't know how much stock to put in those defensive stats. Offensive metrics are explicit, you know who shot the ball, but you can't look at stats and know who is responsible for an opposing player scoring.

but that's true for every player. Apples to Apples. Career numbers are huge sample sizes that go a long way toward reducing statistical noise and eliminating skew.

Ant is not some misunderstood victim of defensive metrics; he absolutely sucks at defense and we've all seen that for 6 seasons and 330 games. His defensive stats match all of the eyeball tests

again, statistically he has been a net negative; and IMO, those stats point directly at what his impact actually is

 

[maxiep]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why we don't have a three-guard rotation of Ant, Shae and Scoot. That's 96 minutes per game or 32 mpg if we don't rotate anyone else in. There's room for all three.

 

[Phatguysrule]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why we don't have a three-guard rotation of Ant, Shae and Scoot. That's 96 minutes per game or 32 mpg if we don't rotate anyone else in. There's room for all three.

Because Ant can't (or doesn't care to) defend any position at an NBA level.

 

[HailBlazers]

Because Ant can't (or doesn't care to) defend any position at an NBA level.

And is a SG trapped in a PGs body.

 

[bemac]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why we don't have a three-guard rotation of Ant, Shae and Scoot. That's 96 minutes per game or 32 mpg if we don't rotate anyone else in. There's room for all three.

Agree 100%...The problem seems to be selling Ant on being the 6th man. While it could be 1 of the other 2, Ant makes the most sense. He is a ball-dominant scorer, who fits best with the hustling defensive minded second unit. It seems to be obvious.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Agree 100%...The problem seems to be selling Ant on being the 6th man. While it could be 1 of the other 2, Ant makes the most sense. He is a ball-dominant scorer, who fits best with the hustling defensive minded second unit. It seems to be obvious.

Good luck. And when he doesn't accept that role (because why would he accept that role on a celler dwelling team?), we will have hurt his trade value and will receive far less in return when we do move him.

The time to get max value for Ant is now.

 

[Pinwheel1]

And is a SG trapped in a PGs body.

Somewhat related, I was listening to NBA radio today talking about that subject. (specifically regarding the Cavs) I think it was Antonio Daniels who said he could count the number of true PGs in the NBA these days on one hand. Most now are "lead guards" but not "point guards".

 

[bemac]

Good luck. And when he doesn't accept that role (because why would he accept that role on a celler dwelling team?), we will have hurt his trade value and will receive far less in return when we do move him.

The time to get max value for Ant is now.

And that is a reasonable perspective. I happen to really like the way this team is constructed, and I would love to see what it's capable of when they are fully aligned.

 

[Phatguysrule]

And that is a reasonable perspective. I happen to really like the way this team is constructed, and I would love to see what it's capable of when they are fully aligned.

I think it's too early to start thinking about winning. We still need to add more talent. Which means get as much draft capital in exchange for guys (who aren't ideal but have value) as possible.

This is time to strike for Grant and Ant, IMO.

Not the end of the world if we keep them... But I'd expect diminishing returns for both, especially after the all star break.

 

[Hoopguru]

Billups needs to tell Simons we want to try him off the bench to give Scoot starting minutes. He will continue to get 30 plus a night. He can become our Jordon Clarkson if he doesn't accept it do it anyway.

 

[wizenheimer]

Billups needs to tell Simons we want to try him off the bench to give Scoot starting minutes. He will continue to get 30 plus a night. He can become our Jordon Clarkson if he doesn't accept it do it anyway.

Clarkson's highest salary will be 14.3M in 2025-26. That season Simons will make 27.7M

 

[Whyachi]

Clarkson's highest salary will be 14.3M in 2025-26. That season Simons will make 27.7M

Cronin needs to make room for Simons max extension. Any moves from here to 2026 must incorporate Ant's 4yr ~160m.

 

[LayneStaley]

very interesting…

 

[Natebishop3]

very interesting…
View attachment 65099

That's his old number.

 

[LayneStaley]

That's his old number.

lol good catch

 

[Hoopguru]

Clarkson's highest salary will be 14.3M in 2025-26. That season Simons will make 27.7M

Yeah, Simons overpaid. Still young and JC is 32.

 

[beast blazer]

Don’t put anything into those kinds stats.

It’s pointless, and those stats are so faulty, depending on who is on the court with them at the same time can alert those stats overall.

They seem to trend accurately overall, but there is a LOT more noise in defensive stats than offensive. Too much noise to compare the numbers like Wiz did.

We need outside shooting and better scoring, period

You want to know how many points per game we averaged as a team last season without Ant? In the 36 games Ant didnt play, we averaged 102.4 PPG as a team. That's good for LAST in the NBA. With Ant we scored 109.4 PPG.

If you want Scoot to actually thrive, its best to surround him with shooters. Scoot wont be able to excel as much if teams are just sagging off him daring him to shoot 3's. He won't be able to do what he does best at the moment which is use his speed and athleticism to blow by defenders.

People think it's cool to say "defense wins championships" but in this era of NBA basketball, offense is more important. If you sort every team in the nba by offensive rating, then defensive rating, you'll see success tracks more closely with offense.

 

[beast blazer]

Simons averaged those 5.5 assists because he was basically the sole focus of other teams defenses most the time. Leaving more wide open looks.

Erm, is that supposed to be an argument against Ant?

 

[Whyachi]

They seem to trend accurately overall, but there is a LOT more noise in defensive stats than offensive. Too much noise to compare the numbers like Wiz did.


People think it's cool to say "defense wins championships" but in this era of NBA basketball, offense is more important. If you sort every team in the nba by offensive rating, then defensive rating, you'll see success tracks more closely with offense.

Celtics were 11-0 in playoffs when holding teams under 100.

Boston couldn't hold Pacers under 100, but Indy played some damn good basketball, and they still got swept by the Celtics 2-way style of play.

 

[beast blazer]

Celtics were 11-0 in playoffs when holding teams under 100.

Boston couldn't hold Pacers under 100, but Indy played some damn good basketball, and they still got swept by the Celtics 2-way style of play.

The Celtics had the #1 offense in the NBA too.

If you look at the average winning percentage of the top 10 offensive teams, vs the top 10 defensive teams, the top offensive teams are quite a bit better. There is also a larger gap between the top offense and bottom offense team, so the quality of your offense dictates how many points you score more than the defense you face.

 

[wizenheimer]

They seem to trend accurately overall, but there is a LOT more noise in defensive stats than offensive. Too much noise to compare the numbers like Wiz did.

c'mon man...I didn't just compare defensive numbers. I simply used a couple of gauges that use both types of metrics. Players spend as much time on defense as they do on offense so you can't ignore those numbers. Yes, rotations and roster construction matter, but using the sample sizes of career numbers goes a damn long way in dialing down the 'noise'

and lets be clear about something here. YOU were the one that opened the door to that particular discussion when you tried to justify Ant's shitty defense by comparing him to Harden, Dame, and Doncic (after arguing that Donovan Mitchell was only a "smidge" better than Ant). It's true...they are poor defenders, but they do much much more on the other end of the floor than Ant does.

By the way, Dame-Harden-Doncic have combined for 23 all-star games and 19 all-NBA selections. You might want to lower your target range for future Ant comparisons.

 

[sheed30]

Good luck. And when he doesn't accept that role (because why would he accept that role on a celler dwelling team?), we will have hurt his trade value and will receive far less in return when we do move him.

The time to get max value for Ant is now.

How do you know he won't be cool with coming off the bench? Ant has spent more time coming off the bench than he has starting in his career.

 

[sheed30]

Well, we are going to play Sharpe and Deni and they can both shoot. Camara is at 34%.. and that's bound to improve.

Is it bound to improve? You listed Sharpe, did you realize you put your foot in your mouth since Sharpe has actually regressed from 36% on 3's in his first year to 33% last year?

So don't be so quick to assume Camara will improve. Sharpe didn't so there goes another debunk what what you "assume"

 

[andalusian]

Two years ago: Dame/CJ/Hart/Grant/Nurk was more talented than Simons/Sharpe/Avdija/Grant/Ayton. Could the second line up end up being better? Sure. Will they? Who knows.

Again, I do like optimistic Nate, so I'm trying to not crap on your party too much.

I always look at talent using the definition of "the natural endowments of a person".

Given that, I am not sure that the Dame/CJ group was more talented, it certainly had more "actualized" talent in the form of skill / experience gained through hard work and luck (injury).

In a perfect world where the Sharpe / Scoot group works hard and manage to develop and actualize their talent, I think they can achieve more because the talent is there, simply because of the athletic ability and size.