Anfernee Simons trade destinations

[PtldPlatypus]

I have my doubts ORL would give up Black, but giving up WCJ and a pick AS WELL? Dream on.

Just assuming that they need the scoring and would need to include WCJ for salary matching (I see him as third on their center depth chart behind Isaac and Wagner). Obviously if it's done in the new league year, the salary-matching thing is less of a concern for them. But figuring out ways to do it pre-draft makes the pick more valuable for sending over to another team (if it's included).

 

[SharpesTriumph]

No idea how Indy feels about anyone on their roster--just trying to match salary and figured Indy would see value in the Walker for Grant swap, but it's moot if they can't afford it.

Sorry I was thinking of Nembhard who Indy is likely much more high on - he averaged 21 ppg against Boston in the playoffs.

Yeah I guess if Walker was still a big target of Schmitz and Cronin that could make sense.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Just assuming that they need the scoring and would need to include WCJ for salary matching (I see him as third on their center depth chart behind Isaac and Wagner). Obviously if it's done in the new league year, the salary-matching thing is less of a concern for them. But figuring out ways to do it pre-draft makes the pick more valuable for sending over to another team (if it's included).

Second half of season stats:


I think they trade Isaac. He's a great defender, but he was averaging fewer than 17 mpg and you KNOW he's going to get injured again. Because he only has one year on his contract we should either waive him or redirect him to somewhere like OKC (because I could not stand to have that doofus on our team).

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Second half of season stats:
View attachment 64904

I think they trade Isaac. He's a great defender, but he was averaging fewer than 17 mpg and you KNOW he's going to get injured again. Because he only has one year on his contract we should either waive him or redirect him to somewhere like OKC (because I could not stand to have that doofus on our team).

View attachment 64905

I've got the impression (at least from Magic fans) that they love Isaac and still think of him as a potential DPOY candidate (if he can stay healthy). I'd have absolutely no problem with Isaac being in the deal instead of WCJ.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Second half of season stats:
View attachment 64904

I think they trade Isaac. He's a great defender, but he was averaging fewer than 17 mpg and you KNOW he's going to get injured again. Because he only has one year on his contract we should either waive him or redirect him to somewhere like OKC (because I could not stand to have that doofus on our team).

View attachment 64905

This would only be a July trade possibility if Orlando wants to use their cap space elsewhere first. This would allow them to acquire Simons regardless of other moves being done first. The trick is then how does Portland get a pick or something in this deal weeks after the draft.

Orlando would be fine to move on from Issac if they have better use of the cap space - and feel their getting guys that can play significant minutes in the playoffs.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

All in all--whatever ancillary salary matching and lower pick inclusions are needed, my thought was basically Ayton/Grant/Simons out, Duren/Walker/Black in (all swapping older, productive experienced vets for younger, potential-laden, more-defensive-oriented players still on their rookie deals), keeping the 7 while also returning a second top-10 pick, giving us several bites at the apple and being fully committed to this rebuild. @e_blazer would hate it, but I think most fans would be on board.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

All in all--whatever salary matching and lower pick destinations are needed, my thought was basically Ayton/Grant/Simons out, Duren/Walker/Black in (all swapping older, productive experienced vets for younger, potential-laden, more-defensive-oriented players still on their rookie deals), also returning another top-10 pick, giving us several bites at the apple and being fully committed to this rebuild. @e_blazer would hate it, but I think most fans would be on board.

I'd prefer to target a future pick or two - just need to continue to build up that warchest of picks and eventually when the time is right those can be cashed in. 2025 picks would be great - but those are in such high demand it might need to be a later year.

Also I'd have some concerns of too many players on rookie contracts trying to prove their worth. Those 3 you list plus Scoot/Sharpe plus whoever we draft next week might be pushing it. We also have Rupert/Camara/Murray although they are lower tiered less relevant prospects. We need to have some vets. I'd try to sign 2-4 vet minimum guys for that leadership.

Yeah I'd much rather have your lineup then running it back or my big fear of us trading for vets.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'd prefer to target a future pick or two - just need to continue to build up that warchest of picks and eventually when the time is right those can be cashed in.

Also I'd have some concerns of too many players on rookie contracts trying to prove their worth. Those 3 you list plus Scoot/Sharpe plus whoever we draft next week might be pushing it. We also have Rupert/Camara/Murray although they are lower tiered less relevant prospects. We need to have some vets. I'd try to sign 2-4 vet minimum guys for that leadership.

Yeah I'd much rather have your lineup then running it back or my big fear of us trading for vets.

Definitely a valid concern. I'd like to hope that iron would sharpen iron, but the minutes/role competition could certainly generate dissension if the attitudes are wrong.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Definitely a valid concern. I'd like to hope that iron would sharpen iron, but the minutes/role competition could certainly generate dissension if the attitudes are wrong.

Yeah I'm not saying the roster couldn't work with these 3 young guys added, I think that's where the Blazers really would need to have done their homework that guys will accept their roles.

It's also a reason I'd strongly prefer sticking with Billups as a coach - the Blazers just need some stability with this franchise if we have another major overhaul of vets leaving the team this summer. Then likely explore a new coach in the 2025 offseason which would probably be a mutual decision. Vulcan/Jody will probably go that route regardless just to save cash.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I've got the impression (at least from Magic fans) that they love Isaac and still think of him as a potential DPOY candidate (if he can stay healthy). I'd have absolutely no problem with Isaac being in the deal instead of WCJ.

If they don't want to give up EITHER, there's always:


But I would definitely want a pick to make up for taking Jett Howard off their hands.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

If they don't want to give up EITHER, there's always:
View attachment 64906

But I would definitely want a pick to make up for taking Jett Howard off their hands.

Does Ingles salary have any guarantee? If not they would just cut that.

 

[e_blazer]

I just disagree the Blazers roster is this close to winning. It had the 3rd fewest wins in the league last year. Golden State had 25 more wins and was the 10th seed.

If Scoot and Sharpe become allstars then we flip the picks for a starter at that time. That is a key reason to trade Ant or any of our vets for picks - it allows us to build for the long term if we are not close to competing AND it allows us to build for the short term as we can flip those picks for a win now player the moment we are at that level. Picks are the currency of NBA roster building.

This win total argument is totally illogical, and I suspect that you know it. One team was intent upon finishing with as poor of a record as possible in order to secure better odds for a top lottery pick (gee, that worked out well). The other team was intent on trying to scratch into the playoffs so that its aging former-championship roster could try to give it one more go. Additionally, the roster I'm proposing would have one new starting caliber forward on it, so it's not the same lineup. Couple that with games lost to injuries last season for the Blazers' top players, and their win total from last year is nearly completely meaningless in terms of looking at the future. The only meaning it could possibly have is if you think it's indicative of the current top players are too injury prone to be relied upon going forward. I don't see that, personally, given that the injuries were not to major joints and ligaments and were likely exaggerated for purposes of holding players out of the lineup at the end of the season.

The roster that I would go into next season with would be:

C - Ayton (Williams, Reath)
PF - New guy (Walker, Murray)
SF - Grant (Camara, Thybulle)
SG - Sharpe (Murray, Rupert)
PG - Henderson (Brogdon, Blanton)

It could be that the new guy is a SF, but I'd prefer to go bigger with a better rebounding PF and switch Grant to SF. Some of the backups will no doubt be moved and new rookies will be brought in. With anticipated improvements to Scoot and Sharpe, and with the connection that was developing between Scoot and Ayton at the end of the season, I have zero doubt that lineup can contend for at least play-in spot and can grow from there.

 

[andalusian]

It wouldn't even be a HCA team we'd have built yet we'd have mortgaged a decade of our future and very likely multiple lottery picks of which multiple ones could be top4. We'd basically be the Nets end of the Tatum and Brown trade.

You just described why the Blazers should not do that, or in other words, why it would never happen because Utah will not do it otherwise, or maybe at all (I doubt they are ready to bottom feeder status and are willing to wait).

 

[SharpesTriumph]

This win total argument is totally illogical, and I suspect that you know it.

It's a simple fact - how can that be illogical?

The Blazers have tanked the last 3 years two of which had Dame. But you think they could run back 80% of the same starters and contend for the playin/playoffs when there is a loaded draft with more incentive than ever to tank? Who is being illogical?

 

[e_blazer]

All in all--whatever ancillary salary matching and lower pick inclusions are needed, my thought was basically Ayton/Grant/Simons out, Duren/Walker/Black in (all swapping older, productive experienced vets for younger, potential-laden, more-defensive-oriented players still on their rookie deals), keeping the 7 while also returning a second top-10 pick, giving us several bites at the apple and being fully committed to this rebuild. @e_blazer would hate it, but I think most fans would be on board.

Correct. I hate it. And, true, I am not most fans. I am the only fan who matters to me. I want to see the Blazers have an winning season again in my lifetime.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Correct. I hate it. And, true, I am not most fans. I am the only fan who matters to me. I want to see the Blazers have an winning season again in my lifetime.

Doing these dual timelines and not being aggressive with a long term rebuild actually DELAYS the bounce back to having many winning seasons. The Blazers need to commit all the way to future assets hard - then once a draft pick has become an allstar PUSH HARD to win. I'd love it if Sharpe or Scoot is that allstar but we don't know - might have to wait until 2025 draft or later to get him.

 

[e_blazer]

It's a cold hard fact - how can that be illogical?

The Blazers have tanked the last 3 years two which had Dame - but you think they could run back 80% of the same starters and contend for the playoffs when there is a loaded draft with more incentive than ever to tank? Who is being illogical?

Good grief.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

It's a simple fact - how can that be illogical?

The fact of the records is simple and inarguable. Not to speak for @e_blazer, but the implication that the disparity in last years' records necessarily equates to a comparable disparity in the ability of the current roster to win games next year is the part that at the very least lacks context.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

This win total argument is totally illogical, and I suspect that you know it. One team was intent upon finishing with as poor of a record as possible in order to secure better odds for a top lottery pick (gee, that worked out well). The other team was intent on trying to scratch into the playoffs so that its aging former-championship roster could try to give it one more go. Additionally, the roster I'm proposing would have one new starting caliber forward on it, so it's not the same lineup. Couple that with games lost to injuries last season for the Blazers' top players, and their win total from last year is nearly completely meaningless in terms of looking at the future. The only meaning it could possibly have is if you think it's indicative of the current top players are too injury prone to be relied upon going forward. I don't see that, personally, given that the injuries were not to major joints and ligaments and were likely exaggerated for purposes of holding players out of the lineup at the end of the season.

The roster that I would go into next season with would be:

C - Ayton (Williams, Reath)
PF - New guy (Walker, Murray)
SF - Grant (Camara, Thybulle)
SG - Sharpe (Murray, Rupert)
PG - Henderson (Brogdon, Blanton)

It could be that the new guy is a SF, but I'd prefer to go bigger with a better rebounding PF and switch Grant to SF. Some of the backups will no doubt be moved and new rookies will be brought in. With anticipated improvements to Scoot and Sharpe, and with the connection that was developing between Scoot and Ayton at the end of the season, I have zero doubt that lineup can contend for at least play-in spot and can grow from there.

The question I would ask you, sir, is what forward do you believe the Blazers could trade Ant (+?) for to fill that "new guy" hole that would be good enough to bring that roster to playoff contention?

 

[e_blazer]

The question I would ask you, sir, is what forward do you believe the Blazers could trade Ant (+?) for to fill that "new guy" hole that would be good enough to bring that roster to playoff contention?

Well, of course, that's the essential question. And, of course, I've been on this forum about the same amount of time as you so I know that whatever forward I suggest and for whatever package, the only correct response (not from you, but from the collective) would be that my trade is totally unrealistic and the guy I'm proposing to acquire is a bum. If it weren't for the fact that I have the head cold from hell at the moment, I might feel like playing the game. As it is, I'll get back to you when I'm up to it.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Well, of course, that's the essential question. And, of course, I've been on this forum about the same amount of time as you so I know that whatever forward I suggest and for whatever package, the only correct response (not from you, but from the collective) would be that my trade is totally unrealistic and the guy I'm proposing to acquire is a bum. If it weren't for the fact that I have the head cold from hell at the moment, I might feel like playing the game. As it is, I'll get back to you when I'm up to it.

Completely understandable. I've been playing the game in my head. My likely responses:

• All-stars like Zion, AD, KD, etc wouldn't be available for any Simons+ packages we might be able to offer
  
• Randle isn't on that tier, but I think the same argument would hold for him
  
• Harris probably wouldn't be good enough, and also would require a sign-and-trade, which seems unlikely
• John Collins seems like a candidate (good rebounder, good shooting percentages) and is available, but I feel like his defensive deficiencies would be exacerbated on this roster. Might be worth a shot
• Deni Avdija might be an interesting play, but I'd think he still needs more growth before he'd be able to elevate that roster.

More than anything, rather than shooting down your ideas, I'd just like to know what type/level of player you envision in this kind of deal.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

I just disagree the Blazers roster is this close to winning. It had the 3rd fewest wins in the league last year. Golden State had 25 more wins and was the 10th seed.

If Scoot and Sharpe become allstars then we flip the picks for a starter at that time. That is a key reason to trade Ant or any of our vets for picks - it allows us to build for the long term if we are not close to competing AND it allows us to build for the short term as we can flip those picks for a win now player the moment we are at that level. Picks are the currency of NBA roster building.

I’m just confused - Anfernee Simons just turned 25 two weeks ago. We have invested in his grooming and he has become a lights-out shooter who can catch and shoot as well as create his own shot. He is light years better than Scoot and Sharpe - neither of whom don’t play any better defense than Ant…..and now he’s a “vet” that we need to move? Quite frankly Scoot is a bust and while I have seen bursts of exciting athleticism out of Sharp, I just don’t have interest, as a fan, to watch a team made up:
Scoot / Black / Banton
Sharpe / Brogdon / Thybulle
Camara / Knecht / Murray / Rupert
Walker / Buzelis / Walker
Duren / Carter / RW3

Speaking of “horrific,” this group will be seller dwellers for years to come, winning maybe 20 games a year until such time that if even one or two of these guys should rise after the baking, their contracts will be up and they will head off to greener pastures.

Rebuild to win. Bring along some young guys - like Ant, recognize when your draft pics are a bust and move them, and stop this fake-injury tanking shit that quite frankly is just awful to watch.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

Why would the Jazz be interested in this. I imagine that for the right price they will move him, but it will be a lot higher, imho, than Brogdon and questionable picks.

Ainge loves a stockpile of picks and Markenen will be demanding a max salary shortly - so put a package of 3 or 4 first round picks together and perhaps a vet and get a star.

I’ll get excited seeing a team made up of:

Ayton / Edey (14) / Williams III
Markenen / Walker
Grant / Risacher or Holland
Ant / Sharpe
Scoot / Banton / Brogdan

This team would win 45-55 games if coached well and if they remained healthy. This team is young and has vets in place to win. There are ample youngsters (25 and under) for building a future. And the vets have good contracts for us to move them in one, two, even three years from now.

rebuild to win! Stop the tank madness

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Completely understandable. I've been playing the game in my head. My likely responses:

• All-stars like Zion, AD, KD, etc wouldn't be available for any Simons+ packages we might be able to offer
  
• Randle isn't on that tier, but I think the same argument would hold for him
  
• Harris probably wouldn't be good enough, and also would require a sign-and-trade, which seems unlikely
• John Collins seems like a candidate (good rebounder, good shooting percentages) and is available, but I feel like his defensive deficiencies would be exacerbated on this roster. Might be worth a shot
• Deni Avdija might be an interesting play, but I'd think he still needs more growth before he'd be able to elevate that roster.

More than anything, rather than shooting down your ideas, I'd just like to know what type/level of player you envision in this kind of deal.

Yeah clearly Ant is well below that all star tier - its something picks cannot make up.

Randle is about the best case scenario and even that might require a pick.

Its much easier to say the Blazer should get "starting forward" for Ant.... when Ant himself might be more of a backup level thats just not clear value he is likely to have.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Ainge loves a stockpile of picks and Markenen will be demanding a max salary shortly - so put a package of 3 or 4 first round picks together and perhaps a vet and get a star.

I’ll get excited seeing a team made up of:

Ayton / Edey (14) / Williams III
Markenen / Walker
Grant / Risacher or Holland
Ant / Sharpe
Scoot / Banton / Brogdan

This team would win 45-55 games if coached well and if they remained healthy. This team is young and has vets in place to win. There are ample youngsters (25 and under) for building a future. And the vets have good contracts for us to move them in one, two, even three years from now.

rebuild to win! Stop the tank madness

According to a Jazz beat writer, the cost to acquire Markkanen is "Something like four or five first-round picks, and a star-level talent coming over". Brogdon and the picks we have available to deal (given the Chicago liability) likely won't get us there.

 

[e_blazer]

Completely understandable. I've been playing the game in my head. My likely responses:

• All-stars like Zion, AD, KD, etc wouldn't be available for any Simons+ packages we might be able to offer
  
• Randle isn't on that tier, but I think the same argument would hold for him
  
• Harris probably wouldn't be good enough, and also would require a sign-and-trade, which seems unlikely
• John Collins seems like a candidate (good rebounder, good shooting percentages) and is available, but I feel like his defensive deficiencies would be exacerbated on this roster. Might be worth a shot
• Deni Avdija might be an interesting play, but I'd think he still needs more growth before he'd be able to elevate that roster.

More than anything, rather than shooting down your ideas, I'd just like to know what type/level of player you envision in this kind of deal.

I have to admit that Collins was my first thought. Also have to admit that there’s not a deep pool to draw upon at PF. I’ve always liked Bobby Portis’s game, but he’s 29 so not really the guy for the future.

 

[e_blazer]

Yeah clearly Ant is well below that all star tier - its something picks cannot make up.

Randle is about the best case scenario and even that might require a pick.

It’s much easier to say the Blazer should get "starting forward" for Ant.... when Ant himself might be more of a backup level thats just not clear value he is likely to have.

Just to be clear, I never said that Simons alone would get the job done. Probably multiple players and a first round pick would have to be included.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I have to admit that Collins was my first thought. Also have to admit that there’s not a deep pool to draw upon at PF. I’ve always liked Bobby Portis’s game, but he’s 29 so not really the guy for the future.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Grant/Collins/Ayton frontcourt. My concern with that approach is basically that Scoot/Sharpe aren't ready to lead a team to the playoffs yet, so (as others have said), we'd still be a losing team, but not a losing-enough team for anything good to come of it.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I’m just confused - Anfernee Simons just turned 25 two weeks ago. We have invested in his grooming and he has become a lights-out shooter who can catch and shoot as well as create his own shot. He is light years better than Scoot and Sharpe - neither of whom don’t play any better defense than Ant…..and now he’s a “vet” that we need to move? Quite frankly Scoot is a bust and while I have seen bursts of exciting athleticism out of Sharp, I just don’t have interest, as a fan, to watch a team made up:
Scoot / Black / Banton
Sharpe / Brogdon / Thybulle
Camara / Knecht / Murray / Rupert
Walker / Buzelis / Walker
Duren / Carter / RW3

Speaking of “horrific,” this group will be seller dwellers for years to come, winning maybe 20 games a year until such time that if even one or two of these guys should rise after the baking, their contracts will be up and they will head off to greener pastures.

Rebuild to win. Bring along some young guys - like Ant, recognize when your draft pics are a bust and move them, and stop this fake-injury tanking shit that quite frankly is just awful to watch.

I'm fine with keeping Ant if we dont get a good young player or pick. But he's paid about what he's worth, so if we can get an asset worth more than its cost and potentially worth much more long term I'd do that change.

That roster you list would have a ton of losses, but I personally want losses next year for the super strong draft.,

I'm hoping the young guys would be much more exciting to watch and improve much more. This last season was so disappointing primarily that Scoot and Sharpe were well short of expectations or hope.

Now I agree on not having injuries the end of the season, those G league rosters were horrible to watch.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Ainge loves a stockpile of picks and Markenen will be demanding a max salary shortly - so put a package of 3 or 4 first round picks together and perhaps a vet and get a star.

I’ll get excited seeing a team made up of:

Ayton / Edey (14) / Williams III
Markenen / Walker
Grant / Risacher or Holland
Ant / Sharpe
Scoot / Banton / Brogdan

This team would win 45-55 games if coached well and if they remained healthy. This team is young and has vets in place to win. There are ample youngsters (25 and under) for building a future. And the vets have good contracts for us to move them in one, two, even three years from now.

rebuild to win! Stop the tank madness

So adding Markkanen raises our wins from 21 to 55?

Impressive how we added him without trading away salary.