Politics another reason for comprehensive immigration reform

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lawai'a

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https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...o-silent-on-jobs-giveaway-to-irish-graduates/

Nationwide, the U.S. establishment’s economic policy of using legal migration to boost economic growth shifts wealth from young people towards older people by flooding the market with cheap white collar and blue collar foreign labor. That flood of outside labor spikes profits and Wall Street values by cutting salaries for manual and skilled labor that blue collar and white collar employees.

this is one of the authors three concluding paragraphs and it is my opinion that he has made a strong case for it being plausible. (the other two, i find evidence lacking for)

well documented article. perhaps a compromise for border security funding could be part of a package that would address some of the issues with our nations current mishmash of special interest groups needs vs what would help strengthen the nation as a whole by bringing bipartisanship to the forefront. both sides have good people.
asylum seekers need not be left out nor our need for security be excluded. a comprehensive fix is needed.
 
lawai'a said:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...o-silent-on-jobs-giveaway-to-irish-graduates/

Nationwide, the U.S. establishment’s economic policy of using legal migration to boost economic growth shifts wealth from young people towards older people by flooding the market with cheap white collar and blue collar foreign labor. That flood of outside labor spikes profits and Wall Street values by cutting salaries for manual and skilled labor that blue collar and white collar employees.

this is one of the authors three concluding paragraphs and it is my opinion that he has made a strong case for it being plausible. (the other two, i find evidence lacking for)

well documented article. perhaps a compromise for border security funding could be part of a package that would address some of the issues with our nations current mishmash of special interest groups needs vs what would help strengthen the nation as a whole by bringing bipartisanship to the forefront. both sides have good people.
asylum seekers need not be left out nor our need for security be excluded. a comprehensive fix is needed.
Click to expand...
I agree that a bi partizan fix is needed, it just makes for good management to be dialed in on immigration control as it should be an important objective priority.
I think Trump being a business dude, he's ready to make a deal for allowing a couple paths to citizenship/DACA, the dem's need to take advantage of the predicament he's in and go after what they want but there has to be some give back or nothing gets done.
 
Hoopguru said:
I agree that a bi partizan fix is needed, it just makes for good management to be dialed in on immigration control as it should be an important objective priority.
I think Trump being a business dude, he's ready to make a deal for allowing a couple paths to citizenship/DACA, the dem's need to take advantage of the predicament he's in and go after what they want but there has to be some give back or nothing gets done.
Click to expand...

The people of the USA have spoken and majority don't want to foot the bill for an expensive wall. He promised Mexico would pay and that's what he campaigned on. If he can't deliver on that promise then move on. Instead he wants to make threats and pout.
 
CupWizier said:
The people of the USA have spoken and majority don't want to foot the bill for an expensive wall. He promised Mexico would pay and that's what he campaigned on. If he can't deliver on that promise then move on. Instead he wants to make threats and pout.
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I don't want a wall just a bi partisan reform on immigration that address's the flow of illegal immigrants, improves the legal process, and whatever else it takes to better secure the border. We've always allowed in legally more than most countries its not like we haven't been hospitable.
 
Hoopguru said:
I don't want a wall just a bi partisan reform on immigration that address's the flow of illegal immigrants, improves the legal process, and whatever else it takes to better secure the border. We've always allowed in legally more than most countries its not like we haven't been hospitable.
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Any bills in the foreseeable future will have to be bipartisan with each party holding one part of congress, but with as long as Trump is there, expecting much cooperation will be unlikely as there is a faction in the republican party that turns a blind eye to all things Trump.
 
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CupWizier said:
Any bills in the foreseeable future will have to be bipartisan with each party holding one part of congress, but with as long as Trump is there, expecting much cooperation will be unlikely as there is a faction in the republican party that turns a bling eye to all things Trump.
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Im not real optimistic.
 
lawai'a said:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...o-silent-on-jobs-giveaway-to-irish-graduates/

Nationwide, the U.S. establishment’s economic policy of using legal migration to boost economic growth shifts wealth from young people towards older people by flooding the market with cheap white collar and blue collar foreign labor. That flood of outside labor spikes profits and Wall Street values by cutting salaries for manual and skilled labor that blue collar and white collar employees.

this is one of the authors three concluding paragraphs and it is my opinion that he has made a strong case for it being plausible. (the other two, i find evidence lacking for)

well documented article. perhaps a compromise for border security funding could be part of a package that would address some of the issues with our nations current mishmash of special interest groups needs vs what would help strengthen the nation as a whole by bringing bipartisanship to the forefront. both sides have good people.
asylum seekers need not be left out nor our need for security be excluded. a comprehensive fix is needed.
Click to expand...
Not as lot of skilled white collar labor coming up here from Latin America. However, if you mow lawns for a living, you might want to consider going back to school.
 
Hoopguru said:
I agree that a bi partizan fix is needed, it just makes for good management to be dialed in on immigration control as it should be an important objective priority.
I think Trump being a business dude, he's ready to make a deal for allowing a couple paths to citizenship/DACA, the dem's need to take advantage of the predicament he's in and go after what they want but there has to be some give back or nothing gets done.
Click to expand...
does it have to be a wall? surely their are more productive ways to secure the border besides "the wall". i could be convinced that in some areas it might be the best deterrent but as long as our border is, i doubt in its' effectiveness, especially in the most remote areas. i remember reading about the Tohon O'odham nation having areas that would physically split tribal lands and even idividual owners land rights. the reality here is there cannot be a wall for at least 75 miles of our border. would we be better served by bloc grants to the states to establish and maintain security measures?
seems like less of a national outcry if texas builds a wall and new mexico hires more manpower and drones? making business and business OWNERS and COOPERATE OFFICERS CRIMINALLY responsible for verification of hires would lessen the demand for immigrant/undocumented labor and make the USA less desirous a destination. amnesty? not blanket kine. i like a pathway better for those here already, maybe more difficult for the undocumented folks that came illegally. collect the taxes from these folks and get their monies going into our social security programs. just a couple of starting points i like but am very flexible in my views because i don't understand the complexities by a long shot. (certainly voluntary military service by foreign nationals should be a fasttrac to citizenship IMHO.)
i haven't even scratched the surface. help me out.
 
lawai'a said:
does it have to be a wall? surely their are more productive ways to secure the border besides "the wall". i could be convinced that in some areas it might be the best deterrent but as long as our border is, i doubt in its' effectiveness, especially in the most remote areas. i remember reading about the Tohon O'odham nation having areas that would physically split tribal lands and even idividual owners land rights. the reality here is there cannot be a wall for at least 75 miles of our border. would we be better served by bloc grants to the states to establish and maintain security measures?
seems like less of a national outcry if texas builds a wall and new mexico hires more manpower and drones? making business and business OWNERS and COOPERATE OFFICERS CRIMINALLY responsible for verification of hires would lessen the demand for immigrant/undocumented labor and make the USA less desirous a destination. amnesty? not blanket kine. i like a pathway better for those here already, maybe more difficult for the undocumented folks that came illegally. collect the taxes from these folks and get their monies going into our social security programs. just a couple of starting points i like but am very flexible in my views because i don't understand the complexities by a long shot. (certainly voluntary military service by foreign nationals should be a fasttrac to citizenship IMHO.)
i haven't even scratched the surface. help me out.
Click to expand...
DACA and pathway for those here now over a period of time for restrictions/number on how many kin folk can come, do away with lottery and use a merit system, along for some funding for improved security and processing. This could represent compromise w/o the wall. There is no way I would agree with open boarders of any kind.
 
What they should be building on the border are factories and facilities to manage work permits...best of both worlds...when Hong Kong was British the New Territories in Canton were neighboring Hong Kong...they built factories there and used the banks, ports and business experience of Hong Kong and the cheap labor of mainland China...nobody had to cross a border for the "better life" because the job was already in their backyard...making it a jail, court clogger and deportation center is a real waste of human resources if you ask me. Make the border territories the "better life" and make money at the same time...those people building cars will buy one if they have a paycheck
 
Hoopguru said:
DACA and pathway for those here now over a period of time for restrictions/number on how many kin folk can come, do away with lottery and use a merit system, along for some funding for improved security and processing. This could represent compromise w/o the wall. There is no way I would agree with open boarders of any kind.
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I don't know of anyone who supports totally open borders.
I do know people who support following international treaties and U.S. law.
 
Hoopguru said:
DACA and pathway for those here now over a period of time for restrictions/number on how many kin folk can come, do away with lottery and use a merit system, along for some funding for improved security and processing. This could represent compromise w/o the wall. There is no way I would agree with open boarders of any kind.
Click to expand...
i certainly am not an advocate of "open borders", limiting chain migration without elimination is also something i would buy into. on my part i think it a healthy assumption that our nations foriegn policy would benefit from the input of those legally immigrated and their ties with family left behind. would also be a source of the conditions there and what we might be willing to tolerate and attempt to affect change. river's border ideas as economic zones has much to merit it also i believe.
 
the article was about the work visa program and how they were shifting the numbers from a nation where less of their peoples chose to come here to an area more economically depressed in order to recruit "quota" recruitment. this in turn depresses wages for domestic employees at a lower wage than accepted as the "standard". this seems strictly an economic benefit to business, though i am sure some of the monies are spent here during employment. are those wages taxed the same? is it required that they receive the same benefits? do they depress wages? do they prefer the visa worker to an american applicant for any of these questioned reason? other impacts? less jobs for qualified americans?
 
riverman said:
What they should be building on the border are factories and facilities to manage work permits...best of both worlds...when Hong Kong was British the New Territories in Canton were neighboring Hong Kong...they built factories there and used the banks, ports and business experience of Hong Kong and the cheap labor of mainland China...nobody had to cross a border for the "better life" because the job was already in their backyard...making it a jail, court clogger and deportation center is a real waste of human resources if you ask me. Make the border territories the "better life" and make money at the same time...those people building cars will buy one if they have a paycheck
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I would think that would attract even more migration from Central & S America. Down south we have poverty and college towns that many Mfg's take advantage of, especially if they have a customers in the region, i.e.: Walmart.
If we made the immigration process quicker with manageable increases each year, those immigrants would prosper from factories in such from all regions in the USA.
I would rather keep a plant in Auburn, Alabama that contributes to the local economy and uses the work force of students, legal immigrants, versus a plant in San Diego that allows open boarder employment, seems it would be even more a magnet for attracting ,migrants from Central & South America. If Mexico wanted to do that with support from other latin American countries, thats cool.
Again we are very generous in our immigration numbers compared to the rest of the world, there just needs to be a balance.
 
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Even the local fire departments have maximum occupancy for public buildings.
 
Hoopguru said:
I would think that would attract even more migration from Central & S America. Down south we have poverty and college towns that many Mfg's take advantage of, especially if they have a customers in the region, i.e.: Walmart.
If we made the immigration process quicker with manageable increases each year, those immigrants would prosper from factories in such from all regions in the USA.
I would rather keep a plant in Auburn, Alabama that contributes to the local economy and uses the work force of students, legal immigrants, versus a plant in San Diego that allows open boarder employment, seems it would be even more a magnet for attracting ,migrants from Central & South America. If Mexico wanted to do that with support from other latin American countries, thats cool.
Again we are very generous in our immigration numbers compared to the rest of the world, there just needs to be a balance.
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i agree in principal with what you advocate, i just see companies not located in low wage areas willing to take advantage of low wage undocumented labor and/or work visa labor. i believe this would need to be addressed early on before any numbers could be set for full immigration or streamlining the process. eliminating the work visas entirely would be difficult but potenially huge in boosting the living wage of our existing workforce. even bernie sanders took a similar stance before compromising in the name of elect-ability.
 
Hoopguru said:
I would think that would attract even more migration from Central & S America.
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But really people travel for jobs all over the planet...this way you would need documentation to cross and both Mexico and the US would benefit. San Diego isn't the right place for an industrial complex..too crowded but parts of the southern border are not heavily populated and have depressed economies as well. If you want to set up a vetting process for skilled workers or general labor, you would have a legal path to the situation that currently is involving prisons, courts and even our own military at tax payers expense. Legal work permits are used all over the world. I had one to work overseas. By offering jobs to skilled workers you'd weed out a lot of refugees who try to enter the country impoverished and in need of social welfare. Make 25 billion at the border instead of spending it on a stupid fucking wall...my 2 cents...if they want to clean up the workforce...go after companies who hire under the table not folks just trying to get by.
 
What we're doing now isn't working ...INS has a backlog of over 50,000 cases on the table unprocessed...we need to address that. expedite the process. It's not like we lack lawyers in this country to deal with them.
 
riverman said:
But really people travel for jobs all over the planet...this way you would need documentation to cross and both Mexico and the US would benefit. San Diego isn't the right place for an industrial complex..too crowded but parts of the southern border are not heavily populated and have depressed economies as well. If you want to set up a vetting process for skilled workers or general labor, you would have a legal path to the situation that currently is involving prisons, courts and even our own military at tax payers expense. Legal work permits are used all over the world. I had one to work overseas. By offering jobs to skilled workers you'd weed out a lot of refugees who try to enter the country impoverished and in need of social welfare. Make 25 billion at the border instead of spending it on a stupid fucking wall...my 2 cents...if they want to clean up the workforce...go after companies who hire under the table not folks just trying to get by.
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i am definitely on board for criminal penalties, not fines for cooperation and businesses that exploit undocumented labor, and by exploit i don't mean just the workers but by gaming the whole system of taxes, wages, etc.,etc.
 
lawai'a said:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/i...llegal-immigration-is-big-business/ar-AAz5W6e
try to ignore left wing rhetoric and look at some numbers they explore in this segment. prisons and detention centers are a very large growth industry. add it to the mix of things needing resolution for the comprehensive package.
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Not opposed to private prisons as long as they don't get paid by how many and how long inmates are doing time. Tie the incentives to something more to do with rehabilitation.
Also, Id think we already have enough people either citizens or immigrants here legally to work rather than a cross the border lower cost employee, otherwise just built the plants in Mexico.
 
Hoopguru said:
Not opposed to private prisons as long as they don't get paid by how many and how long inmates are doing time. Tie the incentives to something more to do with rehabilitation.
Also, Id think we already have enough people either citizens or immigrants here legally to work rather than a cross the border lower cost employee, otherwise just built the plants in Mexico.
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i was more in referral to the shear numbers and costs of the detention centers associated with illegal immigration and employment in border regions tied to it. not opposed to the privatization of the penal institutions, but the monies going into our elections to influence laws and sentencing i do object to....
 
how about community sponsorship of asylum seekers? how about bloc grants? perhaps new mexico would love an economic boost similar to river's suggestions. with mandated artificial wage minimums that are competitive with low wage areas of the US?
 
how about suggestions on ways the money needed for the wall's construction in areas where its' effectiveness are somewhat dubious might be invested in an infrastructure for those regions' border security? the goals are curtail/eliminate illegal immigration and smuggling while also leading to an increased probability in the apprehension of those whose sole intent is attacking our country.
 
Shoutout to you guys...great to have an adult conversation with people who actually think and listen objectively...make OT great again!
 
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