Politics another reason for comprehensive immigration reform

[dviss1]

sorry if the title leads you to that conclusion, but it is not an attempt on my part at all, but an attempt to open up back and forth, left and right, republican an democrat etc. etc.
i found the conclusions to not be completely evidence backed., if you read my entire first post you would have seen this stated.. just the part about how cooperations use work visas to artificially depress white collar wages of entry level and less experienced american college grads.

If you truly want a back and forth conversation you shouldn't start out with the false premise that border security is some sort of compromise.

When Obama was president undocumented immigration was at a net zero. Obama deported more than any other president. Republicans know this but will continue lying to you about it.

So when the narrative suggests that you have to compromise to get border security, I call bullshit.

Also, "border security" to Conservatives is a wall with our military shooting teargas into a sovereign nation.

Then conservatives wanna lie (it's been perpetuated in this very thread) that liberals want open borders.

Folks need to stop repeating Trump's lie.

 

[dviss1]

http://fortune.com/2017/02/15/h1-b-silicon-valley-wages/

try the linked article on for size before dismissing the conclusions i thought the breitbart author had made a case for. i chose breitbart because i wanted to engage right leaning members on immigration reform. the WSJ also has articles drawing the same conclusions. Forbes too. plenty out there if you would like to do more of your own heavy lifting.

I'm versed and knowledgeable about our immigration concerns.

Also, I watch 30 mins of Fox daily. I need to know what those MFs are planning.

 

[riverman]

A thread is only worthless if people posting in it don't use the topic as talking points ...I think this conversation is a good one here. I'm for open borders everywhere on the planet...that's not going to happen in my life...so the situation now is how to set up the border situation so it's not merely a detention center but is a place where both countries can cooperate and make a buck. I'm a believer in immigration through proper channels and asylum for war refugees without ways and means to defend themselves in their homelands. Our current administration is not...so..what would be a solution?...or a process?..everyone here understands the problem.

 

[lawai'a]

If you truly want a back and forth conversation you shouldn't start out with the false premise that border security is some sort of compromise.

When Obama was president undocumented immigration was at a net zero. Obama deported more than any other president. Republicans know this but will continue lying to you about it.

So when the narrative suggests that you have to compromise to get border security, I call bullshit.

Also, "border security" to Conservatives is a wall with our military shooting teargas into a sovereign nation.

Then conservatives wanna lie (it's been perpetuated in this very thread) that liberals want open borders.

Folks need to stop repeating Trump's lie.

if you want legislation that will allow pathways to citizenship you will need to compromise unless you can get 60 democrats in the senate and a president that agrees. border security also includes smuggling and keeping foriegn nationals that only wish to attack our country out as much as possible. these aren't boogie men but real threats. the importation of drugs negatively impacts the poorest citizens of our country much worse than those able to afford their own criminal justice system. see? it is comprehensive in the need that it must be addressed from a lot of places, not just illegals and, and a wall. i don't believe in the effectiveness of a wall simply because our borders cover so vast an area. it would have to be a layered system of different networks to be of any use. you must also address foriegn policy and figure out solutions for the root cause and reasons of the immigrant's coming here as opposed to staying at home.

 

[dviss1]

if you want legislation that will allow pathways to citizenship you will need to compromise unless you can get 60 democrats in the senate and a president that agrees. border security also includes smuggling and keeping foriegn nationals that only wish to attack our country out as much as possible. these aren't boogie men but real threats. the importation of drugs negatively impacts the poorest citizens of our country much worse than those able to afford their own criminal justice system. see? it is comprehensive in the need that it must be addressed from a lot of places, not just illegals and, and a wall. i don't believe in the effectiveness of a wall simply because our borders cover so vast an area. it would have to be a layered system of different networks to be of any use. you must also address foriegn policy and figure out solutions for the root cause and reasons of the immigrant's coming here as opposed to staying at home.

Compromise on what??? Obama secured the border better than ANY of his predecessors.

Saying they need to compromise is Republican for give us finding for the wall.

Utter bullshit and the dems shouldn't BUDGE.

 

[lawai'a]

Compromise on what??? Obama secured the border better than ANY of his predecessors.

Saying they need to compromise is Republican for give us finding for the wall.

Utter bullshit and the dems shouldn't BUDGE.

shouldn't budge from what? has the new caucus stated where they stand on all of the issues and concerns of their constituents? i believe they will fall far short of any proposals that aren't offered up for discussion and compromise even among themselves. i don't see so large an undertaking as a one size fits all.

 

[lawai'a]

perhaps you are talking in reference to the current budget negotiation? my reference is in the compromises for comprehensive immigration reform.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

If you truly want a back and forth conversation you shouldn't start out with the false premise that border security is some sort of compromise.

When Obama was president undocumented immigration was at a net zero. Obama deported more than any other president. Republicans know this but will continue lying to you about it.

So when the narrative suggests that you have to compromise to get border security, I call bullshit.

Also, "border security" to Conservatives is a wall with our military shooting teargas into a sovereign nation.

Then conservatives wanna lie (it's been perpetuated in this very thread) that liberals want open borders.

Folks need to stop repeating Trump's lie.

I remember Bill and Hillary complaining about illegal immigration back in the day.

What surprised me recently was how Obama really was the "deporter in chief"

I thought it was bullshit because of how they counted but I was wrong.

I was wrong about Obama. That post is from June of this year

 

[Lanny]

post #36

I don't see a number on any post.

 

[lawai'a]

I don't see a number on any post.

http://fortune.com/2017/02/15/h1-b-silicon-valley-wages/
another article that comes to much the same conclusion with out attacking or sullying your sensibilities about brietbart. there are many others about research backing it up.
the posts are all individually numbered in the bottom right hand corner of each right beside the highlighted like +quote reply.
this is post #70

 

[Lanny]

http://fortune.com/2017/02/15/h1-b-silicon-valley-wages/
another article that comes to much the same conclusion with out attacking or sullying your sensibilities about brietbart. there are many others about research backing it up.
the posts are all individually numbered in the bottom right hand corner of each right beside the highlighted like +quote reply.
this is post #70

The publication you referenced in post #36 was sold to a Russian Oligarch and thus has no credibility.
My sensibilities have nothing to do with Breitbart's lack of credibility. Nothing whatsoever. The two are distinctly separate issues and I won't discuss your sensibilities if you will leave such issues out of an adult conversation.
This whole issue has grown so tiresome that I feel the need to move on. At this point I can't even recall your assertion.

 

[lawai'a]

The publication you referenced in post #36 was sold to a Russian Oligarch and thus has no credibility.
My sensibilities have nothing to do with Breitbart's lack of credibility. Nothing whatsoever. The two are distinctly separate issues and I won't discuss your sensibilities if you will leave such issues out of an adult conversation.
This whole issue has grown so tiresome that I feel the need to move on. At this point I can't even recall your assertion.

lanny, i apologize if i offended.
i also linked to fortune magazine in the prvious post. not sure what issues you might have there, also noted that usa today and the WSJ all have articles that come to the same conclusion based on actual research.
i wish that after posting 10 times in this thread, that you had put forward something about the actual topic. something about comprehensive immigration, about issues that will need to be addressed and how common ground might be found in discussion of possible solutions.

 

[lawai'a]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-central-america-curb-migration-idUSKBN1OH23X
story of common ground for USA and Mexico for regional economic investment in southern mexico and central america in an attempt to increase economic opportunities in the region that is the source of many of todays asylum seekers and illegal imagination. is privately funded at present. not a lot of details but IMHO something that needs addressed before anything else can be effective.

 

[Lanny]

lanny, i apologize if i offended.
i also linked to fortune magazine in the prvious post. not sure what issues you might have there, also noted that usa today and the WSJ all have articles that come to the same conclusion based on actual research.
i wish that after posting 10 times in this thread, that you had put forward something about the actual topic. something about comprehensive immigration, about issues that will need to be addressed and how common ground might be found in discussion of possible solutions.

I was trying to respond to your post but I got entangled in all this business about Breitbart and then a Russian oligarch publication and all that other stuff until it got tiresome.
Don't worry, in spite of all the entanglement I still consider you one of the good guys. You can't base your relationships on one experience. Friends have to overlook occasional spats if they are ever to maintain any friendships at all. none of us would have any friends. Hey, I overlook Sly's belching when he eats, I can overlook anything, although it's kind of disgusting when he licks his balls.

 

[MARIS61]

California cops ‘frustrated’ with sanctuary laws stopping them from working with ICE over twice-deported criminal

By Greg Norman | Fox News

A California sheriff whose officers were led on a wild chase earlier this week by a twice-deported illegal immigrant killer says cops are “very frustrated” with sanctuary state laws preventing them from working with Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agents.

The comments from Tulare County Sheriff Mike Boudreaux come following the death of Gustavo Garcia, a 36-year-old who police say embarked on a 'reign of terror' robbing a convenience store, shooting and killing a person and firing at buildings before crashing a truck that he had stolen. The day-long crime spree that began Sunday in the Fresno area also left five injured, including one critical, and Lindsay Police suspect Garcia was involved in an additional murder there.

During the chase Monday that ended in the crash that left Garcia dead, he drove the wrong way at speeds of up to 100 mph and hit four other cars – something that he appeared to have done on purpose, police said.

“We are very frustrated with the fact that the way the laws are set up currently that law enforcement hands are tied,” Boudreaux said Wednesday, noting that in years past, Garcia – who had been in police custody shortly before the rampage -- would have been handed over to ICE in cooperation with them.

The scene after Gustavo Garcia crashed a stolen truck in Porterville, Calif. , on Monday. (Fox26/Tulare County Sheriff's Office)

The immigration agency says it placed a detainer on Garcia last week after he was arrested on a misdemeanor charge of being under the influence of a controlled substance. But Boudreaux said he had no choice but to let Garcia go since state law prohibits him from honoring that request unless ICE obtains an arrest warrant with the signature of a federal judge.

“Gustavo Garcia in times past would have been turned over to ICE officials. Even though it was a misdemeanor charge, they placed a detainer on him. That detainer can no longer be recognized,” Boudreaux said.

“That’s how we did it in the past and that’s how we had always done it. And now, that tool has been taken from law enforcement,” Boudreaux continued. “After [the passage of] SB-54 we no longer have that power.

“That tool has been removed from our hands and because of that our county was shot up by a violent criminal that could have easily been prevented had we had the opportunity to reach out to our fellow counterparts,” he added.

Gustavo Garcia was deported from the U.S. twice before going on a crime spree earlier this week, ICE says. (Fox26/Tulare County Sheriff's Office)

Senate Bill 54, enacted in September last year by state Democrats on a party-line vote, was drafted on the premise that undocumented immigrants would feel safer going to police to report crimes and aid in investigations if they didn’t have the risk of detention, according to the Washington Post.

The crash killed Garcia and left four people injured, one critical. (Fox26/Tulare County Sheriff's Office)

ICE, in a statement sent to local media, said it previously deported Garcia in 2004 and 2014. He was sent to Mexico, according to Fox26.

“Garcia-Ruiz served 27 months in federal prison for re-entering the country prior to his second removal,” the ICE statement said.

“On December 14, 2018, ICE lodged an immigration detainer on Garcia… however that detainer was not honored and he was released from custody later that day without any notification to ICE,” it added.

“This deadly rampage could have been prevented if ICE had been notified of his release. This is an unfortunate and extremely tragic example of how public safety is impacted with laws or policies limiting local law enforcement agencies’ ability to cooperate with ICE.”

Boudreaux said Garcia’s crime spree earlier this week was the second time an undocumented person committed serious acts of violence in his county recently, referencing the 2016 disappearance of Cecilia Bravo, believed to have been killed by her husband.

Garcia also has a lengthy criminal record that dates back to 2002, including charges for illegal firearm possession and meth, according to the Fresno Bee.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/californ...working-with-ice-over-twice-deported-criminal

 

[Lanny]

California cops ‘frustrated’ with sanctuary laws stopping them from working with ICE over twice-deported criminal

By Greg Norman | Fox News

A California sheriff whose officers were led on a wild chase earlier this week by a twice-deported illegal immigrant killer says cops are “very frustrated” with sanctuary state laws preventing them from working with Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agents.

The comments from Tulare County Sheriff Mike Boudreaux come following the death of Gustavo Garcia, a 36-year-old who police say embarked on a 'reign of terror' robbing a convenience store, shooting and killing a person and firing at buildings before crashing a truck that he had stolen. The day-long crime spree that began Sunday in the Fresno area also left five injured, including one critical, and Lindsay Police suspect Garcia was involved in an additional murder there.

During the chase Monday that ended in the crash that left Garcia dead, he drove the wrong way at speeds of up to 100 mph and hit four other cars – something that he appeared to have done on purpose, police said.

“We are very frustrated with the fact that the way the laws are set up currently that law enforcement hands are tied,” Boudreaux said Wednesday, noting that in years past, Garcia – who had been in police custody shortly before the rampage -- would have been handed over to ICE in cooperation with them.

The scene after Gustavo Garcia crashed a stolen truck in Porterville, Calif. , on Monday. (Fox26/Tulare County Sheriff's Office)

The immigration agency says it placed a detainer on Garcia last week after he was arrested on a misdemeanor charge of being under the influence of a controlled substance. But Boudreaux said he had no choice but to let Garcia go since state law prohibits him from honoring that request unless ICE obtains an arrest warrant with the signature of a federal judge.

“Gustavo Garcia in times past would have been turned over to ICE officials. Even though it was a misdemeanor charge, they placed a detainer on him. That detainer can no longer be recognized,” Boudreaux said.

“That’s how we did it in the past and that’s how we had always done it. And now, that tool has been taken from law enforcement,” Boudreaux continued. “After [the passage of] SB-54 we no longer have that power.

“That tool has been removed from our hands and because of that our county was shot up by a violent criminal that could have easily been prevented had we had the opportunity to reach out to our fellow counterparts,” he added.

Gustavo Garcia was deported from the U.S. twice before going on a crime spree earlier this week, ICE says. (Fox26/Tulare County Sheriff's Office)

Senate Bill 54, enacted in September last year by state Democrats on a party-line vote, was drafted on the premise that undocumented immigrants would feel safer going to police to report crimes and aid in investigations if they didn’t have the risk of detention, according to the Washington Post.

The crash killed Garcia and left four people injured, one critical. (Fox26/Tulare County Sheriff's Office)

ICE, in a statement sent to local media, said it previously deported Garcia in 2004 and 2014. He was sent to Mexico, according to Fox26.

“Garcia-Ruiz served 27 months in federal prison for re-entering the country prior to his second removal,” the ICE statement said.

“On December 14, 2018, ICE lodged an immigration detainer on Garcia… however that detainer was not honored and he was released from custody later that day without any notification to ICE,” it added.

“This deadly rampage could have been prevented if ICE had been notified of his release. This is an unfortunate and extremely tragic example of how public safety is impacted with laws or policies limiting local law enforcement agencies’ ability to cooperate with ICE.”

Boudreaux said Garcia’s crime spree earlier this week was the second time an undocumented person committed serious acts of violence in his county recently, referencing the 2016 disappearance of Cecilia Bravo, believed to have been killed by her husband.

Garcia also has a lengthy criminal record that dates back to 2002, including charges for illegal firearm possession and meth, according to the Fresno Bee.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/californ...working-with-ice-over-twice-deported-criminal

What happens when one of the short sighted sanctuary repeals causes all the tips from migrants to dry up? Did you think they're all gonna do the right thing and tell what's going on and risk being deported?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

What happens when one of the short sighted sanctuary repeals causes all the tips from migrants to dry up? Did you think they're all gonna do the right thing and tell what's going on and risk being deported?

They can leave anonymous tips. People have done that for years.

I wonder if they could set up an anonymous tip line that would help stop stuff like this....

Oh wait....there was something that could have prevented that...something about federal law enforcement being respected.

You know the same type of thing that weasel Comey was crying about Republicans not respecting the other day.

 

[MARIS61]

What happens when one of the short sighted sanctuary repeals causes all the tips from migrants to dry up? Did you think they're all gonna do the right thing and tell what's going on and risk being deported?

There are no tips from immigrants. Never. None. Nada. Never have been, never will.

This is a fake argument that relies on stupidity of the masses. It's circular illogic.

Require the local police to harbor and release criminals so people won't be afraid to report them back to the police who will harbor and release them...

 

[Lanny]

They can leave anonymous tips. People have done that for years.

I wonder if they could set up an anonymous tip line that would help stop stuff like this....View attachment 23865

Oh wait....there was something that could have prevented that...something about federal law enforcement being respected.

You know the same type of thing that weasel Comey was crying about Republicans not respecting the other day.

Ain't gonna happen. It's already having a chilling effect.

 

[lawai'a]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/17/pay-to-stay-mexico-migrant-caravan-aid-honduras/
a good article addressing some of the reasons behind the migration. also shows just how difficult it is going to be to change the factors that drive the people to leave and come here.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/17/pay-to-stay-mexico-migrant-caravan-aid-honduras/
a good article addressing some of the reasons behind the migration. also shows just how difficult it is going to be to change the factors that drive the people to leave and come here.

Nobody cares.

7 thousand people a month. More than the entire population of the town I grew up in. Jeez

 

[lawai'a]

Nobody cares.

7 thousand people a month. More than the entire population of the town I grew up in. Jeez

it is sad, and our track record for nation building isn't very good recently. i think that the examples that our own politicians set makes it difficult to be taken seriously when we rail about corruption and institutionalized exploitation in our foreign policy. privatization is difficult in the region too, with their own tendencies to nationalize industry for social justice goals. without any tax base it seems impossible to provide the services and government institutions that might provide change in central america.

 

[Lanny]

Nobody cares.

7 thousand people a month. More than the entire population of the town I grew up in. Jeez

That means that more than 7 thousand a month of Latin people are leaving since the net migration is and has been for some time now, zero.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

That means that more than 7 thousand a month of Latin people are leaving since the net migration is and has been for some time now, zero.

More Mexicans are leaving than coming here. They didn't plan to stay in the first place. They come here to make money to send home.

 

[Lanny]

More Mexicans are leaving than coming here. They didn't plan to stay in the first place. They come here to make money to send home.

What someone does with the money they've earned is up to them especially after they've paid their taxes.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

What someone does with the money they've earned is up to them especially after they've paid their taxes.

See here's the thing.....take it to the extreme.

Instead of 10 million illegals working here and taking our money to send home let's say it was 300 million taking our money and sending it home. What about 1 billion.


I know we just print Monopoly money whenever we see fit but there is no benefit to America to have people come here and work and send their money home. Yes the government gets a small portion back in taxes one way or another.

 

[Lanny]

See here's the thing.....take it to the extreme.

Instead of 10 million illegals working here and taking our money to send home let's say it was 300 million taking our money and sending it home. What about 1 billion.


I know we just print Monopoly money whenever we see fit but there is no benefit to America to have people come here and work and send their money home. Yes the government gets a small portion back in taxes one way or another.

Sure, but what can you do about it? Should we adopt the Communist solution such as N. Korea and not allow anyone to leave with any money or send any money to hungry relatives? Of course, most communist countries don't allow people to make enough to send out any money, but that's another issue.
No, I'm for letting people freely decide how to spend their money as long as it's legal.
You know, my mom had a lot of money and every time she would give any to me or anyone else she would always place these stipultations such as you have spend the money on this or that. Well, I don't do that. When I give someone some money it's up to them to decide how to spend it. For one thing, it makes me a whole lot more popular. My great niece went to college and my wife and I gave her $1,000 cash. She could spend it however she felt was best for her.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Sure, but what can you do about it? Should we adopt the Communist solution such as N. Korea and not allow anyone to leave with any money or send any money to hungry relatives? Of course, most communist countries don't allow people to make enough to send out any money, but that's another issue.
No, I'm for letting people freely decide how to spend their money as long as it's legal.
You know, my mom had a lot of money and every time she would give any to me or anyone else she would always place these stipultations such as you have spend the money on this or that. Well, I don't do that. When I give someone some money it's up to them to decide how to spend it. For one thing, it makes me a whole lot more popular. My great niece went to college and my wife and I gave her $1,000 cash. She could spend it however she felt was best for her.

I'm only for stopping illegal immigrants from working here and sending their money home. It takes from America twice. Lose the job and the money. There are programs to hire people to do jobs we won't.

 

[CupWizier]

I'm only for stopping illegal immigrants from working here and sending their money home. It takes from America twice. Lose the job and the money. There are programs to hire people to do jobs we won't.

How much money are they sending home as opposed to how much they spend in the USA? They also have the typical withdrawals for medicare, taxes etc like everyone else but don't get the benefits from it so essentially the government is getting free money

 

[Lanny]

I'm only for stopping illegal immigrants from working here and sending their money home. It takes from America twice. Lose the job and the money. There are programs to hire people to do jobs we won't.

If we sent all the illegal immigrants here home we'd have to send about 13 Million of them home. Many, don't even speak Spanish. We no longer allow undocumented immigrants to obtain citizenship by serving honorably in the military.

Democrats favor only allowing undocumented immigrants to stay here after a legal hearing before a judge. Trump will no hire enough judges to do the job.

I might add that 90% of the undocumented immigrants, who are allowed to stay in the U.S. while waiting on a hearing and have electronic ankle bracelets, show up for their scheduled hearing.