Science Ant is legit and we need to really wrap our minds around what that means

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Idog1976

Idog1976

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I just watched the Hawks game and two things came to mind, the Hawks broadcasters are Classy AF. Dominique Wilkins is a surprisingly good analyst and super fair to the other team.

Also my second and more important thought was, I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Simons. Like I'm getting worse than Jermaine O'Neal-type vibes. Ant looks like he could be top 5 in scoring in a few years if we give him the green light. I think we have to keep him now. He's Dame's Protege and I am terrified of what he might become on another team and giddy at the prospect of him taking over for Dame someday.

He has the absolute perfect mentality for this game. Ant is somehow even cooler than Dame. He also has a deadly snake kinda vibe that's a bit different from Lillard who is cool until he's not. Ant is almost passionless it's wild he just feels like an Assassin. He's been insanely good in this recent streak and he has seemingly no-ego right now. He's a super willing passer and clearly listens to Billups. His court vision and playmaking is way, WAY better than I realized/saw and he's only 22. This kid looks straight-up legit to me and has the right vibe/mindset to be supremely deadly. I don't think I want to trade him anymore. I think he's closing in on untouchable status. I know it doesn't make sense to keep him when we have Dame but this kid is the real deal.

I can't, I just can't countenance trading Dame he's the heart and soul of this franchise and the perfect face of the team. He's a living Legend of a Blazer and I just can't trade him. Just ask him if he'd consider a deal structured in such as way as to maximally benefit the team while making sure Lillard Gets Paid (TM). I am no cap wizard and not sure how we could do that, but I think there are ways we could do it.

The problem isn't Lillard's Cap impact it's CJ's. Lillard is in contention for the title of best PG in the league. He's only overshadowed (when healthy) by the transcendent generational talent of Steph Curry. CJ on the other hand is a talented player but grossly overpaid for his production/impact. We need to trade him and other potential/current cap space hogs. We need to keep Simons I really believe that. I'm thinking it would have to be an almost 1-1 with cap filler for a Star in their prime and nothing short of that. I'm even ever so slightly leery of trading him for Simmons now which is a testament to what I'm seeing in Ant.

Someone else linked this first and I can't remember who, but feel free to let us know in the comments and I will give you props it's a great find. Forget for a minute that this Sixers fan wants to steal Simons from us and how mad we all are at Morey (those of us who want Simmons I mean). Instead, just listen to his breakdown of Ant. Even if you turned this off after a few minutes before because of these sorts of reasons, I'd recommend giving it another chance. This guy Sixers fan or not really understands basketball and his breakdown and admiration for Ant are really quite awesome. If you haven't watched this you should.

I listened to that guy and then watched the Atlanta game which I had missed and I was like damn! Simons is so freaking composed in the game. He controls the tempo and I felt absolutely comfortable every time he had the ball in his hands. The minute it left his hands I felt nervous. I know this was a career night for Ant (so far and he's only 22!), but it was just an incredible game and he did a lot to answer Trae Young who also had a career night. If you can find it or have it recorded it's such a great game, one of the best of the season for sure. Ant and Trae both having career nights.

Anyways, listen to this guy's analysis of Ant. We can't trade this guy, we just can't. I think we might even want him next to Dame and trade CJ and Powell for a star and have McLemore off the bench for cheap. Imagine if/when he learns how to defend with that speed and wingspan. He looks like a future All-Star and threat for scoring title-level guy. Just watch all the January games and it's not like he's not getting defensive attention. He got doubled a lot recently and still played extremely well.




 
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Agreed. We gotta find a way to allow for Ant's growth and getting the best out of the end of Dame's prime. Recognizing that they don't complement one another especially well (other than spacing the floor for each other when one is on a heater), we need a 3rd guard that complements both of them really well. The traits I'm thinking are as follows:

point of attack defender, strong (can switch up to 3s fine), good in the open court/pushing the pace, good rebounder, doesn't need a lot of shots, decent finisher.

The guy I'm thinking of (who may be available) is Marcus Smart, and he's played well next to ball dominant 1s. Too bad he's not a better floor space, but then he'd be a CJ compensation type of guy ($30M). I think there are probably plenty of other options (Dort would be great, Davion Mitchell is intriguing but small), but not sure any are available.
 
Can't trade Ant. Can't do it. Also can't keep Ant on the bench til Dame retires in 5 years. Ant needs his own team. It's a really tough predicament. Watching Dame's press conference reminded me of how great HE is. I don't WANT to trade Dame. But Ant is nearly on Dame's level and 8 years younger. Can they play together? I suppose so. But Ant isn't really a #2/CJ. He's a #1 who should be making all the decisions. I really torn on all of this. We SHOULD NOT TRADE ANT. Would be biggest mistake ever. Give him his own team and he will become MVP level in coming years. IF we trade him, must be a guy like Jaylen Brown or Jimmy Butler coming back. And even then, we'll regret it. Fuck fuck fuck. Do we dare trade Dame? Ant + Dame Haul >>>. Dame + Ant Haul.
 
boredinsalem said:
Agreed. We gotta find a way to allow for Ant's growth and getting the best out of the end of Dame's prime. Recognizing that they don't complement one another especially well (other than spacing the floor for each other when one is on a heater), we need a 3rd guard that complements both of them really well. The traits I'm thinking are as follows:

point of attack defender, strong (can switch up to 3s fine), good in the open court/pushing the pace, good rebounder, doesn't need a lot of shots, decent finisher.

The guy I'm thinking of (who may be available) is Marcus Smart, and he's played well next to ball dominant 1s. Too bad he's not a better floor space, but then he'd be a CJ compensation type of guy ($30M). I think there are probably plenty of other options (Dort would be great, Davion Mitchell is intriguing but small), but not sure any are available.
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Dort would be fantastic. A healthy Jonathan Isaac would be too. I could be down with Smart too.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Can't trade Ant. Can't do it. Also can't keep Ant on the bench til Dame retires in 5 years. Ant needs his own team. It's a really tough predicament. Watching Dame's press conference reminded me of how great HE is. I don't WANT to trade Dame. But Ant is nearly on Dame's level and 8 years younger. Can they play together? I suppose so. But Ant isn't really a #2/CJ. He's a #1 who should be making all the decisions. I really torn on all of this. We SHOULD NOT TRADE ANT. Would be biggest mistake ever. Give him his own team and he will become MVP level in coming years. IF we trade him, must be a guy like Jaylen Brown or Jimmy Butler coming back. And even then, we'll regret it. Fuck fuck fuck. Do we dare trade Dame? Ant + Dame Haul >>>. Dame + Ant Haul.
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I say play both of them. We need to get good defenders at 3 and 4 spots. I have a feeling Ant will improve his defense. He's already better than CJ if this January isn't somehow fool's gold (it isn't). Trade CJ and Powell and keep Ant next to Dame with McLemore off the bench. Play Ant 38+ minutes. When Dame is off the floor Ant can run the show. We can manage Dame's minutes. Having two deadly shooters who are triple threats (Ant doesn't take it to the rack enough, but I'm certain that's coming. He's a slam dunk champion) and have that Assassin's mindset would be huge. I think we might have a second star so getting Simmons somehow to play with them seems huge. If you can keep Little

Dame
Ant
Little
Simmons
Nurk/ or instead trade Nurk and get a 3-D Center or at least one with a solid mid-range+ shot

That's solid defense 3-5 and I believe Ant has real defensive potential due to his later quickness and seemingly limitless energy. Keep Ant, Keep Dame and make the team around them. Why trade for another star when we have one? Klay and Curry show you can have two stars in the back court you just need a great front court player. Get Simmons and start the lawfirm. Simmons and Nurk could be a log jam, but my goodness that team would also have elite ball handling. If you need to trade Nurk for a (lol) 3 and D center do that. You gotta keep Simons and Dame, you just gotta.
 
Idog1976 said:
I say play both of them. We need to get good defenders at 3 and 4 spots. I have a feeling Ant will improve his defense. He's already better than CJ if this January isn't somehow fool's gold (it isn't). Trade CJ and Powell and keep Ant next to Dame with McLemore off the bench. Play Ant 38+ minutes. When Dame is off the floor Ant can run the show. We can manage Dame's minutes. Having two deadly shooters who are triple threats (Ant doesn't take it to the rack enough, but I'm certain that's coming. He's a slam dunk champion) and have that Assassin's mindset would be huge. I think we might have a second star so getting Simmons somehow to play with them seems huge. If you can keep Little

Dame
Ant
Little
Simmons
Nurk/ or instead trade Nurk and get a 3-D Center or at least one with a solid mid-range+ shot

That's solid defense 3-5 and I believe Ant has real defensive potential due to his later quickness and seemingly limitless energy. Keep Ant, Keep Dame and make the team around them. Why trade for another star when we have one? Klay and Curry show you can have two stars in the back court you just need a great front court player. Get Simmons and start the lawfirm. Simmons and Nurk could be a log jam, but my goodness that team would also have elite ball handling. If you need to trade Nurk for a (lol) 3 and D center do that. You gotta keep Simons and Dame, you just gotta.
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Play Simmons at center.
 
I’m only here to find out what you meant to type instead of countenance
 
Ant is legit but he is a terrible defender that is best with the ball in his hands. That's a terrible fit for Dame. If someone blows our doors off in the next two weeks with an offer that includes Ant then we take it. Otherwise we match whatever contract offer he gets this off season and then feature him before the trade deadline next year and get a great piece for him. Dame/Ant has little more potential than Dame/CJ.
 
Why exactly do people call him Ant? Is that like a childhood nickname? For some reason it bugs me.
 
blazerkor said:
Ant is legit but he is a terrible defender that is best with the ball in his hands. That's a terrible fit for Dame. If someone blows our doors off in the next two weeks with an offer that includes Ant then we take it. Otherwise we match whatever contract offer he gets this off season and then feature him before the trade deadline next year and get a great piece for him. Dame/Ant has little more potential than Dame/CJ.
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I am hoping that since Billups has helped Anf improve his playmaking so much that he can also improve his defense. I think he has the physical tools.
 
The way he's been playing, I think we should be calling him "Mr. Simons"...
 
blazerkor said:
Ant is legit but he is a terrible defender that is best with the ball in his hands. That's a terrible fit for Dame. If someone blows our doors off in the next two weeks with an offer that includes Ant then we take it. Otherwise we match whatever contract offer he gets this off season and then feature him before the trade deadline next year and get a great piece for him. Dame/Ant has little more potential than Dame/CJ.
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He’s far from a terrible defender, I’ll even say at worse he’s average
 
AldoTrapani said:


He’s far from a terrible defender, I’ll even say at worse he’s average
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depends on the metric. some stats indicate he's one of the worst defenders in the league (third worst defensive win shares in the league, one of the worst defensive box plus minus among guys who play). He's adequate in some scenarios, but he's pretty far from average, I think.

We saw a photo of a Lakers film session before playing us that specifically identified Ant and Dame as the guys to attack as part of their scouting report. Even Chauncey has been imploring Ant to get better by reminding him how the Clippers' game plan was to just go at him last season when he was an assistant there.

The hope is that he's going to improve with more PT and experience.
 
AldoTrapani said:


He’s far from a terrible defender, I’ll even say at worse he’s average
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I know defensive stats can be noisy, but statistically he's not even an average defender on the Blazers. 4 points worse than the team defensive rating and he's had the statistical advantage of logging a lot of minutes lately when the team defense has been better than it was earlier in the season

he's 22 so there is time for his defense to improve, but it will probably never be very good. Further, if the future is him starting alongside Dame then he's going to have the same problem CJ has had and that's being constantly switched onto bigger and taller wings
 
My ceiling for ant if absolutely everything went right for him was Jordan Clarkson. If you compare them just this season alone, Ant has been much more efficient.

But I've had to recalibrate that after seeing his playmaking this month.

But does he have Dame-like chops? I wouldn't hold out hope for that. Dame was a 22 yr old rookie who tangibly improved every summer for over 8 yrs to reach his peak as a top 5-8 player. The hope is that Ant surpasses CJ caliber and I think he can do that, but hard to imagine this scenario where he does this next to Dame. I don't think he can fully recognize his talent unless he's given the keys.

If Aldridge didn't leave in 15, would Dame have continued to develop and become the 30 pt scorer he is today? The math that Cronin has to do is figure how much longer Dame can maintain his prime. If it's going to be 5-6 yrs, perhaps trading Ant is not the worst scenario. And it doesn't have to be done now. Giving him a reasonable/tradeable contract can allow him to be moved a few years down the line.
 
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Ant and Dame can coexist. First Dame is in his 30's, he isn't going to want the minutes, games, and shot loads that he had in his mid 20's. He will be happy to stand in the corner some and let Ant shine, or rest an extra 10 minutes on a back to back.

The issue is really the remainder of the roster. It doesn't make any sense to have CJ with this duo, and even Powell has questionable value. The team needs big defensive forwards to go with such a backcourt. Roco is good, and Nas and Nance are nice although their 3 point shooting is a concern. They need another big forward that can defend and hit threes.

Now depending on the trade haul from a CJ/Powell trades compared to a massive Dame trade haul it might not make the most strategic sense to build around Dame+Simons. Cashing in the haul for Dame might give the team the most assets to contend.

But if the franchise is set on a hard no to Dame trades, there are ways to build around Dame and Ant, so no I don't believe they each must have their own team. We've seen Curry and Klay win multiple titles along with MVP usage Durant. Harden has fit with other high usage scorers. MVP Wade and LeBron fit. There is some give and take, its a process, but those pairs can be dominant.

However; the focus of building the team needs to be around maximizing the units with Dame and Ant, and not maximizing CJ or Norm's roles.
 
The only way to have dame and ant co-exist is to have a huge frontcourt similar to the cavs. 3 front court players all 6’10 minimum and long and vicious defensively and quick—need to be able to close fast once our perimeter guys get beat. (This is part of the reason why I’d rather have a Myles turner than Nurk).
 
The point should not be about "coexisting," but rather "maximizing." There are a portion of us here who felt CJ was not able to fully realize his abilities because he was paired with Dame. And I've long maintained the two never had synergy to produce more than the sum of their individual talents, so that we could actually win big. I placed a lot of this blame on Terry-- but the primary problem was still roster construction.

Even with a CJ/Norm trade, I don't simply want a repeat of what we saw the past six years with Ant replacing CJ in the Dame pairing this time around.
 
IMO, there were two major problems with the Dame/CJ pairing. One was that they never developed any synergy. The best they built was an 'it's-my-turn-it's-your-turn-it's-my-turn-again' rapport that only looked great the few times both were hitting all their shots and seeing the floor well. They were too redundant in style and usage demand. I think Dame developed a better synergy with Matthews in his first season than he ever has with CJ in 7 seasons...

...the other problem was that the Dame/CJ pairing really needed an all-star level 2-way player at one of the forward positions. Going from Aminu/Harkless to RoCo/Powell was 7 years of a flawed front-courts. Powell is obviously the best offensive player they had at forward, but he's not 2-way and he's playing out of position

just rebooting from Dame/CJ to Dame/Simons doesn't seem to address the first big issue about fit and synergy, while leaving in place the defensive holes. And unless Blazer management can somehow land an all-star level wing/forward in trade, they won't be fixing the 2nd issue
 
Cant imagine the noise when he becomes inconsistent again.

Trade Ant at his highest.
 
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