Science Ant is legit and we need to really wrap our minds around what that means

[blazerkor]

Ant is so legit and I think the rest of the league knows that and would give up a lot to have the rights to lock him up for a long time. Ant is not a legit match in the back court with Dame, if you think he is you are kidding yourself and I wonder how closely you've been watching the last seven years of Blazers basketball.

If your argument is that you want to keep Ant and trade Dame even if that means doing it in the off season or next season before the deadline then you have a logical point of view that I just disagree with. If you think that Ant is the answer next to Dame in the back court...

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Don't rebuild around a guy who has a good month. If he does good the rest of the year then taking the risk is meh at best. But after a month. No. Foolish.

It's like Dame gets surgery and people are like "LEAVE HIM. HES DONE. FINISHED. MOVE ON".

like bro, we have a top 15 player coming back from an injury he played with for years and BEASTED until this year with, and who still has 3 prime years left AFTER the injury.

Like seriously. Think for a second how foolish that sounds. Ant is doing a GREAT job but to rebuild around him after one month is asinine at best.

Dame is 30-something AND wants a two year extension that will pay him over $50,000,000. a year! One guy don’t win you a ring! It’s a team sport. Once we pay Dame that kind of money, and combined with the fact that Allen won’t go over the caps (like will LA or Golden State) we will forever be a team in purgatory.

Face it, it’s time to rebuild. We have some young talent in Ant and Nas and Watford and perhaps Brown…even Smith. Maybe we go after Haliburton and other young players that are looking good.

The draft is a tough way to rebuild. Use CJ, RoCo, Nurkic and yes….unfortunately, Dame, and start rebuilding this very big mess Olshey created. This is not foolish. Its fun to speculate what may or may not go down. I simply think that moving Ant is the foolish move. It’s my main viewpoint. I do believe that Dame / Ant duo would be more successful than the Dame / CJ duo ever was. My focus for the deadline would be moving CJ, RoCo and Nurkic. McLemore would be a great addition to a playoff contender and there may be increased odds of getting our pick back from Chicago if we packaged RoCo with McLemore. And use CJ and a pick to get is wing or PF

Nothing foolish nor asinine about my views. But then again, I wish we still had Kanter and Carmelo on the team! Hmmm, instead we have Zeller and Nance and Snell and McLemore? Wow!

 

[damianlillard]

I will say this, I think Simon has the potential to be better than Damian. However in order for him to do that we can’t train him to be like dame. Simon doesn’t have the strength and the explosiveness that dame has. What Simon need to do it look at Steph curry and his off ball movement specifically. Like how curry has green I think Simmons would be a great fit for simons. Simon may not necessarily reach curry level but I think he can be better than dame with his all around game.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Fun fact:
Ant has 325 3-pointers. He'll likely move into Blazers top 10 all time THIS season:

 

[HailBlazers]

Fun fact:
Ant has 325 3-pointers. He'll likely move into Blazers top 10 all time THIS season:
View attachment 44632

Wow!! Remember when people were ready to give up on him?

 

[1 Eye Jack]

I just watched the Hawks game and two things came to mind, the Hawks broadcasters are Classy AF. Dominique Wilkins is a surprisingly good analyst and super fair to the other team.

Also my second and more important thought was, I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Simons. Like I'm getting worse than Jermaine O'Neal-type vibes. Ant looks like he could be top 5 in scoring in a few years if we give him the green light. I think we have to keep him now. He's Dame's Protege and I am terrified of what he might become on another team and giddy at the prospect of him taking over for Dame someday.

He has the absolute perfect mentality for this game. Ant is somehow even cooler than Dame. He also has a deadly snake kinda vibe that's a bit different from Lillard who is cool until he's not. Ant is almost passionless it's wild he just feels like an Assassin. He's been insanely good in this recent streak and he has seemingly no-ego right now. He's a super willing passer and clearly listens to Billups. His court vision and playmaking is way, WAY better than I realized/saw and he's only 22. This kid looks straight-up legit to me and has the right vibe/mindset to be supremely deadly. I don't think I want to trade him anymore. I think he's closing in on untouchable status. I know it doesn't make sense to keep him when we have Dame but this kid is the real deal.

I can't, I just can't countenance trading Dame he's the heart and soul of this franchise and the perfect face of the team. He's a living Legend of a Blazer and I just can't trade him. Just ask him if he'd consider a deal structured in such as way as to maximally benefit the team while making sure Lillard Gets Paid (TM). I am no cap wizard and not sure how we could do that, but I think there are ways we could do it.

The problem isn't Lillard's Cap impact it's CJ's. Lillard is in contention for the title of best PG in the league. He's only overshadowed (when healthy) by the transcendent generational talent of Steph Curry. CJ on the other hand is a talented player but grossly overpaid for his production/impact. We need to trade him and other potential/current cap space hogs. We need to keep Simons I really believe that. I'm thinking it would have to be an almost 1-1 with cap filler for a Star in their prime and nothing short of that. I'm even ever so slightly leery of trading him for Simmons now which is a testament to what I'm seeing in Ant.

Someone else linked this first and I can't remember who, but feel free to let us know in the comments and I will give you props it's a great find. Forget for a minute that this Sixers fan wants to steal Simons from us and how mad we all are at Morey (those of us who want Simmons I mean). Instead, just listen to his breakdown of Ant. Even if you turned this off after a few minutes before because of these sorts of reasons, I'd recommend giving it another chance. This guy Sixers fan or not really understands basketball and his breakdown and admiration for Ant are really quite awesome. If you haven't watched this you should.

I listened to that guy and then watched the Atlanta game which I had missed and I was like damn! Simons is so freaking composed in the game. He controls the tempo and I felt absolutely comfortable every time he had the ball in his hands. The minute it left his hands I felt nervous. I know this was a career night for Ant (so far and he's only 22!), but it was just an incredible game and he did a lot to answer Trae Young who also had a career night. If you can find it or have it recorded it's such a great game, one of the best of the season for sure. Ant and Trae both having career nights.

Anyways, listen to this guy's analysis of Ant. We can't trade this guy, we just can't. I think we might even want him next to Dame and trade CJ and Powell for a star and have McLemore off the bench for cheap. Imagine if/when he learns how to defend with that speed and wingspan. He looks like a future All-Star and threat for scoring title-level guy. Just watch all the January games and it's not like he's not getting defensive attention. He got doubled a lot recently and still played extremely well.

Tremendous video break down

 

[1 Eye Jack]

I will say this, I think Simon has the potential to be better than Damian. However in order for him to do that we can’t train him to be like dame. Simon doesn’t have the strength and the explosiveness that dame has. What Simon need to do it look at Steph curry and his off ball movement specifically. Like how curry has green I think Simmons would be a great fit for simons. Simon may not necessarily reach curry level but I think he can be better than dame with his all around game.

I think the biggest separation between Dame and Curry is ball handling. I think Simons already has ball handling than Dame, kid is going to be special

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not if it helped you get a Pascal Siakam or Jrue Holiday, etc...it could be a mistake or a case of very good timing...we won't know how long Ant keeps this up...short sample size..depends on the trade and depends on whether we want a small backcourt.Ant will get paid but we have his bird rights which won't matter unless we move another guard. Somebody will offer Ant 20 mill in the off season and we may not be in a position to match without opening some cap space

salaries wont match. Trade cj and norm for siakim or something. Keep Dame and Ant.

 

[AldoTrapani]

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Wow!! Remember when people were ready to give up on him?

Like now where people want us to trade him?

Move CJ and Norm. Don't move Ant.

 

[theprunetang]

Check out my tag line, and know it has been up there for 3 years. Reality just took time to catch up.

 

[Strenuus]

Like now where people want us to trade him?

Move CJ and Norm. Don't move Ant.

Gotta move CJ. Have to. He's the odd man out.

 

[mook]

I just watched the Hawks game and two things came to mind, the Hawks broadcasters are Classy AF. Dominique Wilkins is a surprisingly good analyst and super fair to the other team.

Also my second and more important thought was, I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Simons. Like I'm getting worse than Jermaine O'Neal-type vibes. Ant looks like he could be top 5 in scoring in a few years if we give him the green light. I think we have to keep him now. He's Dame's Protege and I am terrified of what he might become on another team and giddy at the prospect of him taking over for Dame someday.

He has the absolute perfect mentality for this game. Ant is somehow even cooler than Dame. He also has a deadly snake kinda vibe that's a bit different from Lillard who is cool until he's not. Ant is almost passionless it's wild he just feels like an Assassin. He's been insanely good in this recent streak and he has seemingly no-ego right now. He's a super willing passer and clearly listens to Billups. His court vision and playmaking is way, WAY better than I realized/saw and he's only 22. This kid looks straight-up legit to me and has the right vibe/mindset to be supremely deadly. I don't think I want to trade him anymore. I think he's closing in on untouchable status. I know it doesn't make sense to keep him when we have Dame but this kid is the real deal.

I can't, I just can't countenance trading Dame he's the heart and soul of this franchise and the perfect face of the team. He's a living Legend of a Blazer and I just can't trade him. Just ask him if he'd consider a deal structured in such as way as to maximally benefit the team while making sure Lillard Gets Paid (TM). I am no cap wizard and not sure how we could do that, but I think there are ways we could do it.

The problem isn't Lillard's Cap impact it's CJ's. Lillard is in contention for the title of best PG in the league. He's only overshadowed (when healthy) by the transcendent generational talent of Steph Curry. CJ on the other hand is a talented player but grossly overpaid for his production/impact. We need to trade him and other potential/current cap space hogs. We need to keep Simons I really believe that. I'm thinking it would have to be an almost 1-1 with cap filler for a Star in their prime and nothing short of that. I'm even ever so slightly leery of trading him for Simmons now which is a testament to what I'm seeing in Ant.

Someone else linked this first and I can't remember who, but feel free to let us know in the comments and I will give you props it's a great find. Forget for a minute that this Sixers fan wants to steal Simons from us and how mad we all are at Morey (those of us who want Simmons I mean). Instead, just listen to his breakdown of Ant. Even if you turned this off after a few minutes before because of these sorts of reasons, I'd recommend giving it another chance. This guy Sixers fan or not really understands basketball and his breakdown and admiration for Ant are really quite awesome. If you haven't watched this you should.

I listened to that guy and then watched the Atlanta game which I had missed and I was like damn! Simons is so freaking composed in the game. He controls the tempo and I felt absolutely comfortable every time he had the ball in his hands. The minute it left his hands I felt nervous. I know this was a career night for Ant (so far and he's only 22!), but it was just an incredible game and he did a lot to answer Trae Young who also had a career night. If you can find it or have it recorded it's such a great game, one of the best of the season for sure. Ant and Trae both having career nights.

Anyways, listen to this guy's analysis of Ant. We can't trade this guy, we just can't. I think we might even want him next to Dame and trade CJ and Powell for a star and have McLemore off the bench for cheap. Imagine if/when he learns how to defend with that speed and wingspan. He looks like a future All-Star and threat for scoring title-level guy. Just watch all the January games and it's not like he's not getting defensive attention. He got doubled a lot recently and still played extremely well.

Thanks for posting that video. Really enjoyed watching him break down Ant's game.

 

[Idog1976]

Thanks for posting that video. Really enjoyed watching him break down Ant's game.

You're welcome I haven't been on for a few days so I hadn't seen this until now.

 

[illmatic99]

i think this is a sufficient sample size

 

[blazerkor]

i think this is a sufficient sample size

View attachment 44657

Yeah Ant is definitely really good when he's the lead guard and one of the focal points of the offense with a huge usage %. So those who are saying to trade Dame and start a rebuild adding what you get for him with Ant and Nas aren't saying anything illogical but given the fact that Ant is even worse on defense than CJ and has only shown this very good output when he's playing Dame's role, the idea that the two can coexist without being less than the sum of their parts on offense and keeping our defense at the bottom of the league is laughable.

I've wrapped my mind around the fact that Ant is really good and has all star potential and I'm sure GMs all around the league have too. I've also wrapped my mind around the fact that he's just about as good of a fit in a back court with Dame as CJ has been. I just choose Dame and don't think that's any less logical than choosing Ant and by this time next year it would be foolish for the team not to have chosen and moved one of them for the best value possible... it might be foolish not to do that by the off season because I think Ant's value will go down considerably playing with Dame. If there are really great offers for Ant right now as part of a deal to add an all nba player than it's foolish not to move him right now... if your in the keep Dame camp and not the keep Ant camp.

 

[illmatic99]

Yeah Ant is definitely really good when he's the lead guard and one of the focal points of the offense with a huge usage %. So those who are saying to trade Dame and start a rebuild adding what you get for him with Ant and Nas aren't saying anything illogical but given the fact that Ant is even worse on defense than CJ and has only shown this very good output when he's playing Dame's role, the idea that the two can coexist without being less than the sum of their parts on offense and keeping our defense at the bottom of the league is laughable.

I've wrapped my mind around the fact that Ant is really good and has all star potential and I'm sure GMs all around the league have too. I've also wrapped my mind around the fact that he's just about as good of a fit in a back court with Dame as CJ has been. I just choose Dame and don't think that's any less logical than choosing Ant and by this time next year it would be foolish for the team not to have chosen and moved one of them for the best value possible... it might be foolish not to do that by the off season because I think Ant's value will go down considerably playing with Dame. If there are really great offers for Ant right now as part of a deal to add an all nba player than it's foolish not to move him right now... if your in the keep Dame camp and not the keep Ant camp.

You are among the group that think this choice is binary. It's not.

 

[blazerkor]

You are among the group that think this choice is binary. It's not.

I am among the group that thinks the only logical way to look at it is as a binary decision; after watching Dame and CJ squander so much of their careers together, having so many of the same redundant positives and negatives that Dame and Ant share.

 

[Hoopguru]

Yeah Ant is definitely really good when he's the lead guard and one of the focal points of the offense with a huge usage %. So those who are saying to trade Dame and start a rebuild adding what you get for him with Ant and Nas aren't saying anything illogical but given the fact that Ant is even worse on defense than CJ and has only shown this very good output when he's playing Dame's role, the idea that the two can coexist without being less than the sum of their parts on offense and keeping our defense at the bottom of the league is laughable.

I've wrapped my mind around the fact that Ant is really good and has all star potential and I'm sure GMs all around the league have too. I've also wrapped my mind around the fact that he's just about as good of a fit in a back court with Dame as CJ has been. I just choose Dame and don't think that's any less logical than choosing Ant and by this time next year it would be foolish for the team not to have chosen and moved one of them for the best value possible... it might be foolish not to do that by the off season because I think Ant's value will go down considerably playing with Dame. If there are really great offers for Ant right now as part of a deal to add an all nba player than it's foolish not to move him right now... if your in the keep Dame camp and not the keep Ant camp.

Agree & it will take adding Ant to a pkg to retrieve an all star front court player.

 

[illmatic99]

I am among the group that thinks the only logical way to look at it is as a binary decision; after watching Dame and CJ squander so much of their careers together, having so many of the same redundant positives and negatives that Dame and Ant share.

ant is not cj

 

[Idog1976]

ant is not cj

Ant not only CAN pass, he's borderline elite at it at 22. He will be top 10 in the Blazers All-Time 3pt shots made by the end of the season.

I'd much rather trade CJ and Norm and try and sign him for $20ish this summer. Let's stack the 3-5 with defensive beasts. Let's try and get Simmons with CJ, Norm, Roco picks etc. With Simmons having Dame and Simons to pass to especially if Nas is kept and can get better at 3 we are good to go especially with McLemore coming off bench. We can also trade for other veterans who can hit the 3 at the 3-5.

 

[Hoopguru]

Hope Ant can keep up his consistent play over next half of season, even though it may not be with us. His demeanor reminds me of Nic Batum, the silent assassin.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

I am among the group that thinks the only logical way to look at it is as a binary decision; after watching Dame and CJ squander so much of their careers together, having so many of the same redundant positives and negatives that Dame and Ant share.

I don’t think being in the playoffs all the time, winning exciting games, going to WCF is “squandering.” Only thing they didn’t do was go to the Finals. They’ve had a great career together nonetheless and I, as a fan, have enjoyed. Only 1 team wins the title every year.

 

[blazerkor]

I don’t think being in the playoffs all the time, winning exciting games, going to WCF is “squandering.” Only thing they didn’t do was go to the Finals. They’ve had a great career together nonetheless and I, as a fan, have enjoyed. Only 1 team wins the title every year.

I know you know this but they didn't win a conference finals game. They haven't won a game past the second round and during this league leading playoff streak, 5 out of the 8 playoffs we've made have resulted in just 4 wins. Getting our asses handed to us in the first round is not fun and that has been the result 4 out of the 6 seasons of the Dame/CJ era.

Watching basketball is great. Watching Blazers basketball for me is a lot better than just great because even in a game like tonight I get to pay attention to little things like where every individual player's game is compared to where it's been. That being said I want a team really in the mix for the title or I want a young team that has a lot to pay attention to when it comes to individual and team progress. Right now we have a guy (he's injured) that can be a big part of the reason we're a title team, we also have a bunch of guys that do not fit together but are players that can be meaningful role playing contributors on a championship team most of them need to be traded. We have two other guys who could be a big part of a championship team but they're fucking redundant not just when paired together but also with Dame, three redundant stars. That's what we've got.

I can't think of one title team that had redundancy in their big two or three main stars. There are some that had redundancy in role playing positions but not the stars. We have too much redundancy and people want to try to move forward exchanging one redundant piece for another. People have actually watched us not come close to a championship (and no being swept out of the conference finals after squeaking into them is not close) for six years because our two best players are so incredibly redundant. Two small guards who are big time outside shooters and can score inside, who are best with the ball in their hands and can make great passes and are shitty defenders. Tell me that Ant doesn't fit that description to a tee.

Anyway I don't want a repeat of the last six seasons even if others do. Dame and Ant can't be part of our big two or three if we want to win it all, they're too damn redundant. If you think Ant is only good enough to be a role player then keep him and pay him like a role player but I think he's a star and a potential superstar, so we should trade him for a star with superstar potential that isn't so fucking redundant with our sole superstar... and for the love of god we have to trade CJ.

 

[Orion Bailey]

How long were lowry and derozen together before being split?

curry and elie?

how long before wall and beal were split up?

most teams realize within a few years a duo isn't working…

 

[Idog1976]

I know you know this but they didn't win a conference finals game. They haven't won a game past the second round and during this league leading playoff streak, 5 out of the 8 playoffs we've made have resulted in just 4 wins. Getting our asses handed to us in the first round is not fun and that has been the result 4 out of the 6 seasons of the Dame/CJ era.

Watching basketball is great. Watching Blazers basketball for me is a lot better than just great because even in a game like tonight I get to pay attention to little things like where every individual player's game is compared to where it's been. That being said I want a team really in the mix for the title or I want a young team that has a lot to pay attention to when it comes to individual and team progress. Right now we have a guy (he's injured) that can be a big part of the reason we're a title team, we also have a bunch of guys that do not fit together but are players that can be meaningful role playing contributors on a championship team most of them need to be traded. We have two other guys who could be a big part of a championship team but they're fucking redundant not just when paired together but also with Dame, three redundant stars. That's what we've got.

I can't think of one title team that had redundancy in their big two or three main stars. There are some that had redundancy in role playing positions but not the stars. We have too much redundancy and people want to try to move forward exchanging one redundant piece for another. People have actually watched us not come close to a championship (and no being swept out of the conference finals after squeaking into them is not close) for six years because our two best players are so incredibly redundant. Two small guards who are big time outside shooters and can score inside, who are best with the ball in their hands and can make great passes and are shitty defenders. Tell me that Ant doesn't fit that description to a tee.

Anyway I don't want a repeat of the last six seasons even if others do. Dame and Ant can't be part of our big two or three if we want to win it all, they're too damn redundant. If you think Ant is only good enough to be a role player then keep him and pay him like a role player but I think he's a star and a potential superstar, so we should trade him for a star with superstar potential that isn't so fucking redundant with our sole superstar... and for the love of god we have to trade CJ.

Ant isn’t CJ. Of course, we MUST trade CJ. I hope Dame, Cronin, and the Vulcans all understand that. If we don’t trade CJ nothing else will matter. Ant is better than CJ already IMO simply because of his passing. His trajectory is much, MUCH higher and his contract won’t be even close to CJ’s albatross. If we have the right personnel 3-5 we can absolutely roll with two elite assassins in the backcourt. I would only trade Ant as a centerpiece for a true star and even then I would hesitate. Ant has a kobe-esque vibe to him. He needs to take it to the rack and he needs to defend. I believe he will do both in the future especially under Billups. CJ and Norm are who they are and Ant will be better than either and can be on a reasonable contract. It's a pity Olshey didn't lock him down.

 

[Hoopguru]

Ant isn’t CJ. Of course we MUST trade CJ. I hope Dame, Cronin and the Vulcans all understand that. If we don’t trade CJ nothing else will matter. Ant is better than CJ already IMO simply because of his passing. His trajectory much, MUCH higher and his contract won’t be even close to CJ’s albatross. If we have the right personnel 3-5 we can absolutely roll with two elite assassins in the back court. I would only trade Ant as a centerpiece for a true star and even then I would hesitate. Ant has a kobe-esque vibe to him. He needs to take it to the rack and he needs to defend. I believe he will so both in the future especially under Billups. CJ and Norm are who they are and Ant will be better than either and can be on a reasonable contract. Its a pity Olshey didn't lock him down.

I disagree that Ant has Kobe-esque vibe to him. He;s super talented but to me he has more of a Batum-esque vibe to him. Kobe after 4 years in the league would have dominated last night and Ant was more Batum last night.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I have to say @Idog1976 i just love that you made this a science thread!

i can literally picture half a dozen posters up at a chalk board working up calculus formulas as to what all of this means. .
Haven't gotten that picture out of my head since you made this thread and it cracks me up every time!

 

[Hoopguru]

I have to say @Idog1976 i just love that you made this a science thread!

i can literally picture half a dozen posters up at a chalk board working up calculus formulas as to what all of this means. .
Haven't gotten that picture out of my head since you made this thread and it cracks me up every time!

Still considering a boat to enjoy your backyard river? Are there any good boat landings in the Canby area?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Still considering a boat to enjoy your backyard river? Are there any good boat landings in the Canby area?

aww man. There is one just down the street at mollala state park, but i pulled out of the boat i was going to buy.
Im concerned i wont use it. Ever since i got covid i have not had any energy beyond working and music. Maybe things will change this year but until i can get back to 40 hour work weeks instead of 50. Im just soo drained.

i feel like a total puss ass typing that out, but my fatigue is for real with this covid shit.