OT Anthem Politics

[Natebishop3]

I only read the last page of this thread. Smallpox blankets were used as a weapon of war in Roman Empire times, so it's untrue that the method is recent. Knowledge of modern biology isn't necessary to use them.

What I want from you is to stop feeling so proud in American Exceptionalism that you continue to start wars exactly like the Indian Wars, against cultures which don't threaten you, in order to ruthlessly destroy them to replace them with European economic, legal, and value systems. You seem to think it's all in the past, when it's still happening all over the world. Its name is "American foreign policy."

Smallpox blankets weren't used in the Americas until much later...... which is what I'm referring to. Not that the method didn't exist earlier in history.

 

[Natebishop3]

The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

You keep using that phrase.

I don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[dviss1]

I am asking because I don't know. How do those pictures affect you? How does slavery affect you? I ask because as a Christian, I am not affected by the pursection of Christians that has happened.

 

[riverman]

When waiting for a Blazer game to start, does anyone here stand for the National Anthem, while watching on TV at home? If not, why the hell not?

I'll be the first to admit I never explode fireworks on the fourth of July....celebrating the end of war with gunfire and bombs always seemed to send the wrong msg about peace to me. When a war ends....celebrate the silence for a change

 

[Natebishop3]

I hardly ever hear "Merry Christmas" anymore anyway. It's all "Happy Holidays" these days, which is the equivalent of "All Holidays Matter."

 

[dviss1]

Not really. All I see is people arguing, there is no actual conversation at all. Once again, it takes action. Kneeling isn't action.

What are we arguing over? And he didn't kneel. He sat quietly in Protest and the media blew it up. They asked him questions and he answered them articulately with an informed mind. If he didn't create discussion why is this happening:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...ins-seahawks-column-0912-20160911-column.html

After they stood by kneeling, after they spoke loudly saying nothing, long after four Miami Dolphins players became a national story by their protest during the national anthem, they were joined by a fifth Dolphin.

Steve Ross, the team owner, went up to safety Michael Thomas in the locker room and shook his hand. "Let's get ready to do something about this," he said, even in the emotionally crushing aftermath of the Dolphins' season-opening loss to Seattle, 12-10.

"We're ready," Thomas said. And so this national sports protest for change and more racial awareness got its biggest recruit to date. Ross isn't some disposable player. He didn't have to back off from joining the protest because he's a small-name reserve who feared for his job, as Thomas initially did. Ross is in the elite club of NFL owners. He's a multi-billionaire. He's a game-changer, too. And if players face some fans' wrath for kneeling down – as they know they do – Ross presents a bigger name and bigger target for those to grow angry about.

"I don't think there was any lack of respect," Ross said. "Everyone in this team and whole organization respects the flag and what it stands for. These guys are making a conversation about something that's very important topic in this country. I'm 100 percent in support of them."

Good for him. Good for this cause for social awareness. Good that someone rich and powerful wants to make a stand in a sports era where everyone thinks more of image or its potential effect on business.
Ross' stand will, no doubt, offend some paying customers. That just puts Ross on the same footing as Thomas, running backArian Foster, linebacker Jelani Jenkins and receiver Kenny Stills. They stood during a ceremony for the 9/11 victims on the 15th anniversary, then knelt during the anthem.

"Very nervous," Thomas said of how he felt. "But I know where my heart is in it. It's not to be disrespectful, anti-blue, anti-partriotic. It's to raise awareness and equality for all."

"It was pulling on my heart to stand up and not act like everything is OK, not act like I haven't seen [problems]," Jenkins said. "I chose to get involved to see if I could create change. Raise awareness."

"I want it be clear that there's no disrespect to the military or the police officers. It's not about that. I love everyone. To me love is progress, hate is expensive."

Foster spoke to the team about organizing something for the national anthem in the way that began with San Francisco quarterback Colin Kaepernick kneeling down in protest. He initially said he supported Kaepernick, but probably wouldn't do it.

"I felt the need to speak out," he said Sunday.

So what now? Where does it go? This is where Ross helps. Because let's be honest: This is not a protest with great clarity. It started with Kaepernick, who criticized America's oppressive side while wearing a T-shirt of Fidel Castro, one of the world's most oppressive leaders. Huh?

Ross, though, can help to organize all this. He started a non-profit organization a few years ago exactly with this premise. The mission statement of the Ross Initiative for Sports for Equality (RISE) is to, "advance race relations and drive social progress."

The right to free speech works both ways, of course. And those upset with these players and Ross for taking this stance have an equal and opposite right to be heard.

"Too worried about kneeling during the anthem #karma," Marlins outfielder Christian Yelich tweeted out with a video of Stills dropping a sure touchdown pass.

This is what a democracy sounds like - loud and combative and even sloppy as ideas get discussed. Some will like this protest. Some won't at all. That's America. Everyone gets heard.

"I don't think there's anyone in the organization, all the players included, that want to create any disrespect for this country, for this flag, for the soldiers or anything else. I think they know we're 100 percent behind them," Ross said.

"I think today, what has been brought up, is a conversation that needs to be had. I think they're doing, in their way. I applaud them.

Ross stood there in the post-game locker room, dozens of media around him, airing his thoughts. There was some attempt later by Dolphins officials to control his message, to say he was just talking about the players' "right" to protest rather than agreeing with their stance. But there was no doubt what he was saying.

"This is a country you're allowed to indicate say where your preferences are and your feelings are," he said. "That's what makes it so great. And I think it's great [what the players did] I applaud them for doing it."

Seattle players stood together Sunday by all locking arms during the national anthem. They wanted to show a unified front in a call for social change. As receiver Doug Baldwinsaid, "There is a message that needs to be heard. You heard us, now listen to us."

All these players pushing for progress is newsworthy. But Ross has the ability to make it happen. He has the money and means and direction. Four Dolphins knelt on Sunday. It's the fifth one who joined them afterward that is Sunday's biggest news.

 

[dviss1]

That looks like discussion to me.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

When waiting for a Blazer game to start, does anyone here stand for the National Anthem, while watching on TV at home? If not, why the hell not?

Because I don't want to spill my beer, scotch, nachos, sandwich, or nutter butters.

 

[Orion Bailey]

There are many ways to make public ones' opinions about how they feel about the current race equalities/innequalities and to try to start a positive movement.

This is not one of them. You don't need to disgrace those who have fought and died for the flag and for this country to try to bring to light the issues in today's USA.

Think about this. The very country he is dissing is the same one that GIVES him the freedom to diss without repercussions. How many countries in this world would lop your head off for speaking in opposition of the government and or how society is run?

In my opinion this was not very well thought out.

Now lets take a look at this. How many conversations are going on about whether a protest should be during the national anthem or not?
How many conversations are being had about the problems he is trying top bring to light and provide solutions for?

All I see are conversations about whether its okay to protest... not WHAT he is protesting. So did it work?
No.

Just because we have the right to Freedom of speech doesn't mean it should always be used or excersized. Some people don't have the ability to use common sense and know when to shut their trap. Some people do.

This protest is the same thing.

 

[jlprk]

This is a matter of morality. We should have a poll thread asking whether you stand at home for the Anthem. No one will admit sitting because the CIA watches these threads, and don't forget to always capitalize the Anthem.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Darn, should have capitalized Nutter Butters.

 

[jlprk]

We need a new fad, a national craze, of patriotism. It will have to start with young people, in the schools. While they pledge allegiance every morning, they should all hold red, white, and blue drums and bang them. After school while walking to the candy store, the new fad would be to bang their drums while shouting, "I love my country." Voters will need to pass school bond measures to fund the drums. Students will be assigned homework to practice on them. At home in the evenings, this will capture the parents' idealism and make them whoop hosannahs of patriotic joy. It will catch on if drum factories can keep up and kill enough cowskins.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Drum heads were calf skin. Modern heads are mylar and some high-tension heads are woven kevlar, which are bullet proof and could come in handy while marching down some streets.

 

[Strenuus]

There are many ways to make public ones' opinions about how they feel about the current race equalities/innequalities and to try to start a positive movement.

This is not one of them. You don't need to disgrace those who have fought and died for the flag and for this country to try to bring to light the issues in today's USA.

Think about this. The very country he is dissing is the same one that GIVES him the freedom to diss without repercussions. How many countries in this world would lop your head off for speaking in opposition of the government and or how society is run?

In my opinion this was not very well thought out.

Now lets take a look at this. How many conversations are going on about whether a protest should be during the national anthem or not?
How many conversations are being had about the problems he is trying top bring to light and provide solutions for?

All I see are conversations about whether its okay to protest... not WHAT he is protesting. So did it work?
No.

Just because we have the right to Freedom of speech doesn't mean it should always be used or excersized. Some people don't have the ability to use common sense and know when to shut their trap. Some people do.

This protest is the same thing.

My argument to that is - people use the freedom of speech to push agendas that are uncomftorable all the time... so where is the line? People want that freedom of speech as a cop-out, but only when its comftorable for them and aligned with their views.

The problem is knowing where the line is... and we are nowhere near an answer to that, because people hide behind it all the time.

 

[blue32]

What about the Dolphins' owner?

My opinions of people doing what Kap are doing are the same, doesn't matter who they are. I publicly shame them equally

 

[Orion Bailey]

My argument to that is - people use the freedom of speech to push agendas that are uncomftorable all the time... so where is the line? People want that freedom of speech as a cop-out, but only when its comftorable for them and aligned with their views.

The problem is knowing where the line is... and we are nowhere near an answer to that, because people hide behind it all the time.

I don't follow you. Seems your more inline with what I'm thinking. I don't get your arguement. Or even see it?

My point is the same Kaperprick used his freedom of speech abilities to push his agenda. I agree with his agenda. I don't agree with how he pushed it.

 

[Strenuus]

I don't follow you. Seems your more inline with what I'm thinking. I don't get your arguement. Or even see it?

My point is the same Kaperprick used his freedom of speech abilities to push his agenda. I agree with his agenda. I don't agree with how he pushed it.

In the end freedom of speech is also by how you present that speech. I dunno.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

America loves posers.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

America loves posers.

*insert photo of swimsuit model posing here*

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If the anthem was good, I'd respect it more. F'rinstance:

 

[Orion Bailey]

America loves possums.

I don't. I think they are ugly nasty inflated rats.
One time one made me tinkle in my pants on the way to school....

 

[dviss1]

This is a matter of morality. We should have a poll thread asking whether you stand at home for the Anthem. No one will admit sitting because the CIA watches these threads, and don't forget to always capitalize the Anthem.

Every Varsity/College game I referee the anthem is played. I've always put my hand over my heart. Many times I've witnessed my white counterparts bowing their heads, hands behind their backs and not covering their hearts. Ialways wondered how it would play out if I didn't. From now on I will stand but I won't put my hand there because my heart is no longer in it. True story:

About 10 or so years ago I'm doing a JV boys game at Liberty HS. For some odd reason the Varsity game was about to start in about the middle of the 4th quarter of my game. The away team was down 5 or 7 points when I heard the Introductions. I thought to myself "oh shit" as I quickly realized the anthem was going to be played. In the middle of the opposing team's fast break I blew my whistle and stopped play. I advised the whole gym that the anthem was about to start and that we would resume play once it was over. The away coach and their fans were livid... Loudly complaining because I stopped play. I basically told him to calm his fans, STFU, and get over it (obviously not in those words). While the anthem played NOT ONE of the opposing team's fans stood up; all of them were pissed at the fact that I stopped play mid fast break. Funny, because the team on the floor all stood at attention with their hands over their hearts. I remember feeling vindicated and thinking "look at the example your kids are showing. There is hope. They're better than you." Only after the anthem played about halfway and with their kids standing at attention did their parents reciprocate. After the anthem played those away kids came back and won by like 6 points.

After the game (the ref usually runs right off the floor) I was stopped by a Liberty parent. I'll never forget his words. He said "hey ref, win or lose what you did was a great thing. Even though they don't have to stand, it's a good thing those kids got to set an example."

 

[Cippy91]

I don't get how anybody can say it created a discussion. All it did was make people that are for it and people that are against it argue, if you didn't check social media after he did it. It's completely stupid. I don't care that he did it, that's not the point. Point is, it's not actually doing anything. He is literally just kneeling, I am saying why doesn't he visit communities and put up his money if he is all about it. Welcome to 2016 where people think kneeling during thenational anthem makes you MLK for fuck sakes

 

[Natebishop3]

I feel like if you're going to protest or exert energy for change, you really need to have some kind of deliverable goal.

What's the goal here?

I mean, if it's a straight up "fuck the US government," I guess that's totally your prerogative. I'm not really a huge fan of our government, so I could understand that sentiment. But if you're actually saying that you're doing something to send a message, shouldn't there be like....... some time of end goal?

 

[PDXFonz]

The NBA has a rule that every player must stand for the Anthem. So in that sense, they are more strict.

Unless you are D Wade and it's the Canadian anthem

 

[oldfisherman]

Keep in mind. People in other countries do not understand our internal long running race problems, but they watch our behavior carefully.

People in other countries watch on TV many of our sporting events, including our National Anthem before the events. What they see during our Anthem is a much divided country. They see weak people disrespecting the symbol of their own country.

The action of the players is considered disrespectful in every other culture in the world. Even the fans talking in the stadium while our Anthem is playing is considered disrespectful and weak by other nations. That bad behavior has been going on for years, and needs to stop. People around the world do not consider us strong when we voice an opinion through actions during the Anthem, or ignore the anthem by talking during it.

There is a time and a place for everything. The National Anthem is NOT THE TIME OR PLACE TO DIVIDE OUR PEOPLE, especially in front of the rest of the world.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Who fucking cares? They're socks. My socks are more offensive and they are plain old socks.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

If there was a way to dislike this post i would. I just had someone send this to me too.

Everyone agrees those guys are shitheads. The nfl is backing kaep. The nfl cant control what the public uproars over. People are stupid. The nfl shit all over ap, ray rice, greg hardy.

Come on now.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If there was a way to dislike this post i would. I just had someone send this to me too.

Everyone agrees those guys are shitheads. The nfl is backing kaep. The nfl cant control what the public uproars over. People are stupid. The nfl shit all over ap, ray rice, greg hardy.

Come on now.