OT Anthem Politics

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So no comment fellas? Y'all HAMMER Kap for the socks but not ONE comment on this racist ass?

As you've said before.
You gotta be kidding me. This has gone viral.

I'll comment, but due to some wanting a divide it doesn't matter.
I find the tattoo offensive and at the very least he should be forced to cover it up at all times while on the job.
As well as being confined to a desk at all times where he can't hurt anyone. He also should be allowed no weapons while on the job/in uniform.
If he refuses a pink slip should be waiting.
Law enforcement is expected to serve and protect all, as this is clearly an example of someone who wants a divide.. there should be repercussions.

Edit - I personally believe he shouldn't be allowed to purchase weapons legally at all. But that's another topic
 
I personally don't watch sports to hear about political statements.
If someone was sitting during the national anthem I would pay them no attention as they don't matter to me at that event.
I'm there to watch a game and turnoff from the world. Not someone force a political view down my throat.
Just like I paid no attention to Starbucks baristas trying to create a race conversation with me(when they were encouraged to do that). I was there for one thing coffee.

More power to them, if they wish to sit or kneel during though. But that's between their employer and them.
 
Forcing the anthem and flag salute down our collective throats at every single sporting event is nothing more than an exercise in indoctrination and forced conformity. I am glad as fuck to be an American, and to live in the United States of America. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else or be a citizen of any other country. I am lucky beyond words to have been born here and to have the life I have. But I have always resented the forced national anthem and flag salute and the rote indoctrination it represents shoved down my throat every time I try to watch a basketball game. The sheer hatred and vitriol than any individual has to endure if they don't submit to it ensures that this political/religious ceremony is inescapable, and it's not going to end.
 
Forcing the anthem and flag salute down our collective throats at every single sporting event is nothing more than an exercise in indoctrination and forced conformity. I am glad as fuck to be an American, and to live in the United States of America. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else or be a citizen of any other country. I am lucky beyond words to have been born here and to have the life I have. But I have always resented the forced national anthem and flag salute and the rote indoctrination it represents shoved down my throat every time I try to watch a basketball game. The sheer hatred and vitriol than any individual has to endure if they don't submit to it ensures that this political/religious ceremony is inescapable, and it's not going to end.

Well said!
 
I think the whole point of playing the anthem before sporting events is something like this.

"Hey we're about to have a lot of fun, and watch the best athletes in the world play an awesome game, that all of us love. We have all been afforded the freedom to do this, because of the sacrifices made by the men and women of this country. Many of whom, will never get the chance to enjoy this freedom, because they are no longer with us. So let's take a minute and pay some respect to those men and women, and appreciate the fact that all of this is possible."

They started playing the national anthem at baseball games (shortly after WWI I believe) and it went from there.

But I really don't see the correlation between the national anthem, and oppression. What does the national anthem have to do with it?

It has nothing to do with it. He chose to sit during the national anthem because he knew it would be seen as disrespectful, and it would get attention. But I don't know why a man with millions of followers, and millions of dollars couldn't get some attention on the subject of oppression, without disrespecting so many people in the process. I think he really shot himself in the foot here, because now there's two conversations; one negative, and one positive.

That being said, I am not offended by him sitting. At all. But there was clearly a better way to "start the conversation".
 
What are we arguing over? And he didn't kneel. He sat quietly in Protest and the media blew it up. They asked him questions and he answered them articulately with an informed mind. If he didn't create discussion why is this happening:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...ins-seahawks-column-0912-20160911-column.html

After they stood by kneeling, after they spoke loudly saying nothing, long after four Miami Dolphins players became a national story by their protest during the national anthem, they were joined by a fifth Dolphin.

Steve Ross, the team owner, went up to safety Michael Thomas in the locker room and shook his hand. "Let's get ready to do something about this," he said, even in the emotionally crushing aftermath of the Dolphins' season-opening loss to Seattle, 12-10.

"We're ready," Thomas said. And so this national sports protest for change and more racial awareness got its biggest recruit to date. Ross isn't some disposable player. He didn't have to back off from joining the protest because he's a small-name reserve who feared for his job, as Thomas initially did. Ross is in the elite club of NFL owners. He's a multi-billionaire. He's a game-changer, too. And if players face some fans' wrath for kneeling down – as they know they do – Ross presents a bigger name and bigger target for those to grow angry about.

"I don't think there was any lack of respect," Ross said. "Everyone in this team and whole organization respects the flag and what it stands for. These guys are making a conversation about something that's very important topic in this country. I'm 100 percent in support of them."

Good for him. Good for this cause for social awareness. Good that someone rich and powerful wants to make a stand in a sports era where everyone thinks more of image or its potential effect on business.
Ross' stand will, no doubt, offend some paying customers. That just puts Ross on the same footing as Thomas, running backArian Foster, linebacker Jelani Jenkins and receiver Kenny Stills. They stood during a ceremony for the 9/11 victims on the 15th anniversary, then knelt during the anthem.

"Very nervous," Thomas said of how he felt. "But I know where my heart is in it. It's not to be disrespectful, anti-blue, anti-partriotic. It's to raise awareness and equality for all."

"It was pulling on my heart to stand up and not act like everything is OK, not act like I haven't seen [problems]," Jenkins said. "I chose to get involved to see if I could create change. Raise awareness."

"I want it be clear that there's no disrespect to the military or the police officers. It's not about that. I love everyone. To me love is progress, hate is expensive."

Foster spoke to the team about organizing something for the national anthem in the way that began with San Francisco quarterback Colin Kaepernick kneeling down in protest. He initially said he supported Kaepernick, but probably wouldn't do it.

"I felt the need to speak out," he said Sunday.

So what now? Where does it go? This is where Ross helps. Because let's be honest: This is not a protest with great clarity. It started with Kaepernick, who criticized America's oppressive side while wearing a T-shirt of Fidel Castro, one of the world's most oppressive leaders. Huh?

Ross, though, can help to organize all this. He started a non-profit organization a few years ago exactly with this premise. The mission statement of the Ross Initiative for Sports for Equality (RISE) is to, "advance race relations and drive social progress."

The right to free speech works both ways, of course. And those upset with these players and Ross for taking this stance have an equal and opposite right to be heard.

"Too worried about kneeling during the anthem #karma," Marlins outfielder Christian Yelich tweeted out with a video of Stills dropping a sure touchdown pass.

This is what a democracy sounds like - loud and combative and even sloppy as ideas get discussed. Some will like this protest. Some won't at all. That's America. Everyone gets heard.

"I don't think there's anyone in the organization, all the players included, that want to create any disrespect for this country, for this flag, for the soldiers or anything else. I think they know we're 100 percent behind them," Ross said.

"I think today, what has been brought up, is a conversation that needs to be had. I think they're doing, in their way. I applaud them.

Ross stood there in the post-game locker room, dozens of media around him, airing his thoughts. There was some attempt later by Dolphins officials to control his message, to say he was just talking about the players' "right" to protest rather than agreeing with their stance. But there was no doubt what he was saying.

"This is a country you're allowed to indicate say where your preferences are and your feelings are," he said. "That's what makes it so great. And I think it's great [what the players did] I applaud them for doing it."

Seattle players stood together Sunday by all locking arms during the national anthem. They wanted to show a unified front in a call for social change. As receiver Doug Baldwinsaid, "There is a message that needs to be heard. You heard us, now listen to us."

All these players pushing for progress is newsworthy. But Ross has the ability to make it happen. He has the money and means and direction. Four Dolphins knelt on Sunday. It's the fifth one who joined them afterward that is Sunday's biggest news.
I think Seattle got it right.
 
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Bruce Miller was cut because of that..... there was plenty said about him. What is that guy even talking about?
 
I vote that we officially change the national anthem to "We will rock you" by Queen.

They already play it at all sporting events anyway.
 
I vote that we officially change the national anthem to "We will rock you" by Queen.

They already play it at all sporting events anyway.

Yep, "We Will Rock You" before the games and "Uprising" by Muse to replace "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" during the 7th inning stretch in baseball and during 4th quarter timeouts at all football and basketball games.

BNM
 
Yep, "We Will Rock You" before the games and "Uprising" by Muse to replace "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" during the 7th inning stretch in baseball and during 4th quarter timeouts at all football and basketball games.

BNM

Oh man... Uprising is so good. That would be AMAZING.
 
What I find amusing is the "rawr! nobody talks about THAT thing! rawr!"

We are basically at the mercy of the national media. They give us the news and they only seem to push stuff that they know will REALLY piss people off. A football player punching someone is not news. It's not the first time and it won't be the last. A football player not standing for the national anthem WAS news. Now it's getting old.
 
Well I do see his agenda but it doesn't belong in sports or toward our flag. I am a veteran and I have 2 boys went to combat to fight for this country and for the flag. If a military man or woman would do that they would be punish because they have no choices. What happening in this country has nothing to do with the flag it as something to do with some people that don't use there head. So kneeling down or holding arms together it not the answer. But it is there right to do it you can think the men and women in the uniform so you got that freedom. But me it is a slap in the face to everyone that ever put on the uniform.
 
And you're looking at the math....

Now don't get butt hurt about the words in the meme. It's the picture that's worth 1000 words.

jzc9TbW.jpg

So we both agree slavery in America (not our current corporate form of slavery which is colorblind) has never existed in your lifetime. You have not been Officially discriminated against by your Federal government.

Affirmative Action, which gives all residents of the US who are not white males a guaranteed cut-ahead-in-line for any of the 3,000,000 civilian jobs in Federal Government, has existed for your entire lifetime, and a majority of mine. It forced me to abandon my chosen career of public service after 17 years, spend time and money on night school and completely change careers, change my family's lifestyle and place of residence, take on a second job for most of my life, and have 17 less years to rise and prosper in my new career. It's like starting up a 2 flight stairway to your goal and getting up one flight only to be moved to the bottom of a different 2 flight stairway with no goal at the top which you'll never reach anyway due to our limited lifespans. I have about a dozen close friends in the same boat. It destroyed some lives. They've been actually harmed far, far worse by discrimination than you ever have. My sons face the same discrimination every day and so will my grandson and granddaughter when they seek admittance to the college of their choice and when they choose a career of their liking.

Obviously, all members of my race are owed financial reparations for the catastrophic damage this un-Constitutional discrimination has inflicted on our lives and loved ones.

But that's okay, I'm not asking for my "fair share" from The Collective. I'm a resourceful person who was raised with a decent work ethic and a sense of personal responsibility. I'm living the dream here in Beautiful Central Oregon. Neither of us has to look very far to find people/countries in worse shape.
 
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I think the whole point of playing the anthem before sporting events is something like this.

"Hey we're about to have a lot of fun, and watch the best athletes in the world play an awesome game, that all of us love. We have all been afforded the freedom to do this, because of the sacrifices made by the men and women of this country. Many of whom, will never get the chance to enjoy this freedom, because they are no longer with us. So let's take a minute and pay some respect to those men and women, and appreciate the fact that all of this is possible."

They started playing the national anthem at baseball games (shortly after WWI I believe) and it went from there.

But I really don't see the correlation between the national anthem, and oppression. What does the national anthem have to do with it?

It has nothing to do with it. He chose to sit during the national anthem because he knew it would be seen as disrespectful, and it would get attention. But I don't know why a man with millions of followers, and millions of dollars couldn't get some attention on the subject of oppression, without disrespecting so many people in the process. I think he really shot himself in the foot here, because now there's two conversations; one negative, and one positive.

That being said, I am not offended by him sitting. At all. But there was clearly a better way to "start the conversation".


Love it! That's what it's all about.
 
Forcing the anthem and flag salute down our collective throats at every single sporting event is nothing more than an exercise in indoctrination and forced conformity. I am glad as fuck to be an American, and to live in the United States of America. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else or be a citizen of any other country. I am lucky beyond words to have been born here and to have the life I have. But I have always resented the forced national anthem and flag salute and the rote indoctrination it represents shoved down my throat every time I try to watch a basketball game. The sheer hatred and vitriol than any individual has to endure if they don't submit to it ensures that this political/religious ceremony is inescapable, and it's not going to end.
This. Exactly.

Well said.
 
Forcing the anthem and flag salute down our collective throats at every single sporting event is nothing more than an exercise in indoctrination and forced conformity. I am glad as fuck to be an American, and to live in the United States of America. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else or be a citizen of any other country. I am lucky beyond words to have been born here and to have the life I have. But I have always resented the forced national anthem and flag salute and the rote indoctrination it represents shoved down my throat every time I try to watch a basketball game. The sheer hatred and vitriol than any individual has to endure if they don't submit to it ensures that this political/religious ceremony is inescapable, and it's not going to end.
Agreed. It seems like artificial patriotism.
 
There are many ways to make public ones' opinions about how they feel about the current race equalities/innequalities and to try to start a positive movement.

This is not one of them. You don't need to disgrace those who have fought and died for the flag and for this country to try to bring to light the issues in today's USA.

Think about this. The very country he is dissing is the same one that GIVES him the freedom to diss without repercussions. How many countries in this world would lop your head off for speaking in opposition of the government and or how society is run?

In my opinion this was not very well thought out.

Now lets take a look at this. How many conversations are going on about whether a protest should be during the national anthem or not?
How many conversations are being had about the problems he is trying top bring to light and provide solutions for?

All I see are conversations about whether its okay to protest... not WHAT he is protesting. So did it work?
No.

Just because we have the right to Freedom of speech doesn't mean it should always be used or excersized. Some people don't have the ability to use common sense and know when to shut their trap. Some people do.

This protest is the same thing.

You know who else died for this country?

Over 5 million black slaves and 80+ million natives.

But #alllivesmatter...

Bullshit. All lives have never mattered...
 
Forcing the anthem and flag salute down our collective throats at every single sporting event is nothing more than an exercise in indoctrination and forced conformity. I am glad as fuck to be an American, and to live in the United States of America. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else or be a citizen of any other country. I am lucky beyond words to have been born here and to have the life I have. But I have always resented the forced national anthem and flag salute and the rote indoctrination it represents shoved down my throat every time I try to watch a basketball game. The sheer hatred and vitriol than any individual has to endure if they don't submit to it ensures that this political/religious ceremony is inescapable, and it's not going to end.

Perfect. Great post.
 
You know who else died for this country?

Over 5 million black slaves and 80+ million natives.

But #alllivesmatter...

Bullshit. All lives have never mattered...
I think I finally see the disconnect with some of the race discussion. Tell me if I'm off base.

People who say all lives matter aren't thinking about what happened before a lot of them were born. They feel every life is equal.

On the other side, some call that bs because of the complete injustice that happened before they were born.

Now, there are still injustices going on that both the blacklivesmatter and the alllivesmatter crowd both agree needs to change, but cant get on the same page because of things that happened before most were born
 
There is just no way these discussions go that far ever. It's like politics. Nobody ever agrees. Too much hate in the world. Once people stop living in the past and learn to love instead of hate then maybe we can get somewhere but we have too many 18-22 year olds thinking they know everything about the world. I don't care that he did what he did, all I say is, put your money where your mouth is, you wanna change the world? Okay then go and actually attempt to, don't just kneel and tell me you're making a difference. No, you aren't. Good thing I stay away from nonsense discussions like this in life because it pretty much goes no where 100 percent of the time. I don't give a fuck what color you are, if you're a cool person then fuck it lets chill and share some damn stories. Shits not difficult
 
You know who else died for this country?

Over 5 million black slaves and 80+ million natives.

But #alllivesmatter...

Bullshit. All lives have never mattered...

I think I finally see the disconnect with some of the race discussion. Tell me if I'm off base.

People who say all lives matter aren't thinking about what happened before a lot of them were born. They feel every life is equal.

On the other side, some call that bs because of the complete injustice that happened before they were born.

Now, there are still injustices going on that both the blacklivesmatter and the alllivesmatter crowd both agree needs to change, but cant get on the same page because of things that happened before most were born

I somewhat disagree.

All lives do matter.

But you know who else died? 500,000 white Americans trying to end slavery.
Slavery has been around since the beginning of time. It isn't something Americans invented.
America should not be held to this.... "we owned slaves, so we suck" type of spot.
There have been slaves since the Ancient Egyptian days and almost every race/culture has experienced it.

I am not saying it is good or right. Not at all.

What I AM saying is this country is sometimes unjustly accused of being the main slavery country in this world's history and it isn't.

Furthermore, I have zero control of anyone from previous generations and so I shouldn't be punished or tossed into the same conversation. (I/Me is not literal)

In fact, we are the FIRST country to actively oppose and put laws in place stating slavery is illegal.

Did it make everything okay? Hello no... but this country has done more than any other in trying to rectify its mistakes and to end slavery here and across the globe. Shit doesn't change overnight as everyone knows. Things take time and Kaperprick is acting as if nothing has improved and nobody is doing anything. As a matter of fact, in one interview he sounded as if he thinks the average american doesn't know there even is a race problem.

Pretty ridiculous.

In the end it really comes down to this and i'm not religious, but if following the bible or god makes you a better person then I am all for it. but it comes down to this.
Treat others as you would like to be treated. Do not to others of which you would not do to yourself.
Simple.
If everyone lived by this standard this world would be a much happier peaceful place.
 
The British outlawed slave trading in 1811 and Slavery in its empire in 1834.

We weren't the first.

What about Australian and New Guinea provinces though? I thought they had slavery into the 1900's? I could be wrong on that. Either way I think my point is pretty valid, that its been throughout hidstory and we are not the only country who has had issues.
 
You know who else died for this country?

Over 5 million black slaves and 80+ million natives.

But #alllivesmatter...

Bullshit. All lives have never mattered...

80+ million natives didn't just die for this country.... they died for Canada and Mexico and Guatemala and Brazil and Argentina and Chile and Peru and I can go on and on.

You are so consumed with your hatred, you'll believe anything to justify it.
 
I somewhat disagree.

All lives do matter.

But you know who else died? 500,000 white Americans trying to end slavery.
Slavery has been around since the beginning of time. It isn't something Americans invented.
America should not be held to this.... "we owned slaves, so we suck" type of spot.
There have been slaves since the Ancient Egyptian days and almost every race/culture has experienced it.

I am not saying it is good or right. Not at all.

What I AM saying is this country is sometimes unjustly accused of being the main slavery country in this world's history and it isn't.

Furthermore, I have zero control of anyone from previous generations and so I shouldn't be punished or tossed into the same conversation. (I/Me is not literal)

In fact, we are the FIRST country to actively oppose and put laws in place stating slavery is illegal.

Did it make everything okay? Hello no... but this country has done more than any other in trying to rectify its mistakes and to end slavery here and across the globe. Shit doesn't change overnight as everyone knows. Things take time and Kaperprick is acting as if nothing has improved and nobody is doing anything. As a matter of fact, in one interview he sounded as if he thinks the average american doesn't know there even is a race problem.

Pretty ridiculous.

In the end it really comes down to this and i'm not religious, but if following the bible or god makes you a better person then I am all for it. but it comes down to this.
Treat others as you would like to be treated. Do not to others of which you would not do to yourself.
Simple.
If everyone lived by this standard this world would be a much happier peaceful place.

I disagree that the all lives matter croud wants to end the status quo. How many survivors (and their families) do we tell to get over the holocaust? That's right. Not one. Yet we're told everyday to get over slavery, Jim Crow, mass incarceration, and killing of unarmed blacks. Every day we're told this. Not only did America commit slavery she also committed genocide. Yet Hitler still sucks and Germans still has that as a stain on their past but America

"should not be held to this.... "we owned slaves, so we suck" type of spot."

Must be nice....
 
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