Around the NBA: February 2019 edition!

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Because the hard and fast rule is that one must have control of the ball to travel. This prevents calling traveling in situations where there is no control like a scrum for the ball. There are lots of situations in which you would not call traveling due to not having control.

That rule will never change.

If he had picked the ball up and fumbled it (therefore he has lost control over the ball) and then dribbles isn't that still double dribble? I get that in a "scrum" or some situations where you never had possession of the ball, to begin with you have to be allowed "steps", I'm having a little trouble with the idea that a player has possession of the ball goes to make a play, realizes it's a super bad idea then loses control of the ball all on his own, no one touched him or the ball, that he can basically continue to walk.
I guess the rules are what they are, but it certainly looks ugly and seems like enough wiggle room that an incredibly crafty player could "act" like they are fumbling the ball as they are basically just giving themselves more steps. Seems like there should be more to something has to cause that fumble outside of your own coordination problems...

 

[riverman]

Sucks he is stuck on the cavs but at least he has a team. Baldwin not so lucky huh

read his Tweet somewhere and he had pictures of himself as a kid going to Cavs games...he was a childhood Cavs fan...got tickets to their games for birthday presents from his dad....and that's coming from Canada...happy for Nik and they need what he does

 

[dviss1]

Seems very easy to do this on purpose and make it look accidental and take advantage of the rule then. It wouldn't fly in pick up ball at all.

Referee a bunch of games (thousands) and natural basketball movement is easy to tell.

It just is.

 

[dviss1]

If he had picked the ball up and fumbled it (therefore he has lost control over the ball) and then dribbles isn't that still double dribble? I get that in a "scrum" or some situations where you never had possession of the ball, to begin with you have to be allowed "steps", I'm having a little trouble with the idea that a player has possession of the ball goes to make a play, realizes it's a super bad idea then loses control of the ball all on his own, no one touched him or the ball, that he can basically continue to walk.
I guess the rules are what they are, but it certainly looks ugly and seems like enough wiggle room that an incredibly crafty player could "act" like they are fumbling the ball as they are basically just giving themselves more steps. Seems like there should be more to something has to cause that fumble outside of your own coordination problems...

Illegal dribble is a MUCH different call than traveling.

Don't conflate the two.

 

[dviss1]

Let it be known that there is not one player on the planet that could do this purposely.

First off neither players nor coaches know the rule well enough. Secondly, it'd be so easy to tell if it was purposely attempted.

It'd be some Shaqtin' a fool type stuff.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Illegal dribble is a MUCH different call than traveling.

Don't conflate the two.

I understand that completely, but one of the pretty easy things to do vs a slow defender if you pick up your dribble is let them hit it out of your hands, because you lose control of the ball you get your dribble back.
Yes they are different, but the idea of I can just lose the ball all by my self and that gives me more steps seems really strange to me, like I said I understand what you’re saying but it still feels off...

 

[dviss1]

I understand that completely, but one of the pretty easy things to do vs a slow defender if you pick up your dribble is let them hit it out of your hands, because you lose control of the ball you get your dribble back.

This is not illegal. Control was lost because while in possession of the ball, it contacted your opponent. You can even dribble afterward.

but the idea of I can just lose the ball all by my self and that gives me more steps seems really strange to me, like I said I understand what you’re saying but it still feels off...

You don't get "more steps". You get to establish a pivot foot.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Let it be known that there is not one player on the planet that could do this purposely.

First off neither players nor coaches know the rule well enough. Secondly, it'd be so easy to tell if it was purposely attempted.

It'd be some Shaqtin' a fool type stuff.

I bet the Players and the coaches after the Beal play are a lot more educated on the rule now then a week ago.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

So we now have the NBA’s version of the tuck rule.

idk the tuck rule, but it feels a lot like the old "Raider Rule."

 

[dviss1]

let them hit it out of your hands,

There isn't one NBA player that would do this. Not one. I've actually never seen this. I've seen players try to throw it off of their opponent but not LET them hit it.

 

[dviss1]

I bet the Players and the coaches after the Beal play are a lot more educated on the rule now then a week ago.

It just doesn't make sense though. Let me almost lose the ball in an effort to regain my pivot foot.

It just doesn't happen at any level of basketball.

I'm glad traveling wasn't called on this instance.

 

[dviss1]

Seems very easy to do this on purpose and make it look accidental and take advantage of the rule then. It wouldn't fly in pick up ball at all.

If it's "really easy" why isn't it a rampant problem?

It's silly to think a player would risk possession of the ball to gain an extra step in a league that allows you to take three steps all the time.

 

[dviss1]

I bet the Players and the coaches after the Beal play are a lot more educated on the rule now then a week ago.

And I guarantee you no one will attempt it for fear of:

Losing possession of the ball.

A referee calling traveling and then, losing possession of the ball.

Next to NFL football, NBA basketball is the sport that values possession the most.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

So what constitutes “fumbling” it? He didnt drop the ball, the ball was basically in his hands the whole time in fact it seems strange that he can do that but if he really fumbles the ball and it bounces on the floor he cant pick it up because he already picked up his dribble.

Also watch James harden, when he picks up his dribble early he will pretty frequently get the defender to go after the ball and when he knows the defender makes contact with the ball he’ll use that to regain his dribble, Chris Paul too.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

@dviss1 Here's what I don't understand:
Every couple of games or so a player stops dribbling, "loses control" of the ball, and has to yell at his teammates to get because he can't touch it, lest double dribble be called. Sometimes, these players touch the ball again and get called. Why?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

And I guarantee you no one will attempt it for fear of:

Losing possession of the ball.

A referee calling traveling and then, losing possession of the ball.

Next to NFL football, NBA basketball is the sport that values possession the most.

For the record Im not just trying to argue with you for the kicks, just think the rule seems really strange and honestly this happens so infrequently I guess it doesnt matter.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

@dviss1 Here's what I don't understand:
Every couple of games or so a player stops dribbling, "loses control" of the ball, and has to yell at his teammates to get because he can't touch it, lest double dribble be called. Sometimes, these players touch the ball again and get called. Why?

Thats where I see the rule as weird too, if you terminate your dribble and lose control of it to the point it hits the floor you cant pick it up. If you just kind of fumble it you can still grab and re-establish a pivot foot, which probably only looks weird here because he’s moving while all of this is happening.
I mean I get what dviss is saying and if thats the rule than thats the rule, just think its kind of a quirky one.

 

[trailblazer18]

They mentioned during the game tonight that some refs came out and now said it was a travel...

 

[dviss1]

@dviss1 Here's what I don't understand:
Every couple of games or so a player stops dribbling, "loses control" of the ball, and has to yell at his teammates to get because he can't touch it, lest double dribble be called. Sometimes, these players touch the ball again and get called. Why?

They're not getting called for illegal dribble. The situation you're describing sounds like a player passing the ball and not being able to repossess it. That is Traveling because one may not pass to themselves.

That's a completely different situation than losing control.

 

[dviss1]

Thats where I see the rule as weird too, if you terminate your dribble and lose control of it to the point it hits the floor you cant pick it up.

Not true. You may repossess the ball in this situation.

If I completely terminate my dribble and due to momentum (jab step, rip through) I lose the ball, It is completely legal to repossess it.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Not true. You may repossess the ball in this situation.

If I completely terminate my dribble and due to momentum (jab step, rip through) I lose the ball, It is completely legal to repossess it.

I have had that called a double dribble, and Ive always seen it called that way too.

 

[THE HCP]

It's not traveling. It's ugly as shit, but not traveling.

He takes 2 steps and loses control of the ball. By rule a player may regain control of the ball and establish a pivot foot. In addition, said pivot foot may be lifted to pass or shoot.

From someone who's refereed over 7000 games, it's easy to tell if a player has control of the ball or not.

"Fumbling" the ball isn't a natural act and control is easily determined by simply knowing natural basketball movement.

The NBA's interpretation of the play is correct.

You sir have NO damn idea what you are talking about! I don't care if you have 200 white and black striped shirts in your closet..... you can't tell me thats not a travel! In my opinion, thats damn near a first down!

 

[jlprk]

You sir have NO damn idea what you are talking about! I don't care if you have 200 white and black striped shirts in your closet..... you can't tell me thats not a travel! In my opinion, thats damn near a first down!

The former Hispanic Raising Panic raises a good question. Dviss, how many black-and-white striped shirts have they issued you? I mean after you got out.

 

[BonesJones]

Referee a bunch of games (thousands) and natural basketball movement is easy to tell.

It just is.

Yet refs get calls wrong all the time.

 

[dviss1]

Yet refs get calls wrong all the time.

That's not a good argument. They're still better equipped than anyone else. You're also changing the narrative. Getting a call wrong occasionally is going to happen.

You sir have NO damn idea what you are talking about! I don't care if you have 200 white and black striped shirts in your closet..... you can't tell me thats not a travel! In my opinion, thats damn near a first down!

By letter of the law, it's not traveling.

Whether or not it should have been called is a different story that one could argue both sides of.

 

[dviss1]

I have had that called a double dribble, and Ive always seen it called that way too.

You had a sorry ref. Those exist.

 

[dviss1]

I have had that called a double dribble, and Ive always seen it called that way too.

No you haven't. Only if the player dribbles again. If they don't...

 

[trailblazer18]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...putes-nbra-says-wizards-bradley-beal-traveled

"While in some cases a fumble at the end of a dribble on the gather can be retrieved, that is not what happened on this play," McCutchen told ESPN. "Bradley Beal gathers the ball and takes two steps, but then loses control of the ball. Once he has lost control after taking the two steps, he must regain control and pass or shoot before taking another step in order to be legal. Since he does not regain control until another step, the play is a travel."

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

No you haven't. Only if the player dribbles again. If they don't...

Well, I have but if this is just going to divulge into questioning what my experiences are vs your's I don't think that's going to get either of us very far.

Anyways thanks for your explanations, always good to get your perspective on these sort of things.

 

[trailblazer18]

http://www.nba.com/article/2019/02/14/oklahoma-city-thunder-markieff-morris

They got better!