Around the NBA: February 2020

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Minstrel said:
That's because +/- based statistics are inherently noisy. Adjusted versions of +/- try to employ some clever methods to reduce that noise but even if they're better than raw +/-, it's still built on an indirect measure of value. That's not to say they're useless--some method of on-court/off-court impact is necessary for teasing out effects that aren't captured in direct statistics, like screen-setting, passes that don't immediately result in a bucket but wrong-foot the defense leading to an eventually successful possession, blocking out so a teammate gets a rebound and almost all of the defensive side of the ball.
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Right. It's a measure of "being a good teammate" so of course it's going to be relative to the role one is put in on one's team (and also one's teammates). But that's okay, because IT'S A FUCKING TEAM SPORT.
 
GDiama said:
It feels like something is totally wrong with this stat. Schroder 7th, Divincenzo better than Middleton, Duncan Robinson better than Butler or Adebayo etc it looks total BS
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Sometimes stats can be deceiving.
 
tester551 said:
Or more accurately, there are stats that are CRAP & some that hold more value. The ones used in this analysis are not that great & have lots of noise in them...
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my thinking is that no single type of stat will convey a consistently accurate story. If BPM, RPM, & RAPM all show the same thing about a player, and that is supported by PER, TS%, winshare, VORP, and other metrics, as a whole those numbers have some solid meaning. Even then, there could be noise. When one stat shows a player is near the top, and everything else shows he's mediocre, you have to distrust the single stat. This is why if I post some stat comparisons here, I usually post a large range of numbers

and it needs to be more apples to apples too. There is going to be skew when you try and gauge a player that averages less than 20 minutes to a player that averages over 30 minutes. And more skew when it's a 2nd unit player compared to a starter
 
wizenheimer said:
When one stat shows a player is near the top, and everything else shows he's mediocre, you have to distrust the single stat.
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You don't have to distrust the single stat, but you have to at least take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes a stat like RPM is telling you something real that other stats, that measure things differently, aren't telling you. That was the point of the famous Shane Batter "no-stats All Star" article that (in the mainstream basketball consciousness) kicked off the awareness of "Moneyball"-like advanced numbers that capture things not recorded as points, assists, rebounds, blocks or steals (or even scoring efficiency).

Of course, sometimes the single stat is just giving you a nonsense result. You do always have to keep both possibilities in mind.
 
I’m just here waiting for the Clippers to sign another player
 
Minstrel said:
You don't have to distrust the single stat, but you have to at least take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes a stat like RPM is telling you something real that other stats, that measure things differently, aren't telling you. That was the point of the famous Shane Batter "no-stats All Star" article that (in the mainstream basketball consciousness) kicked off the awareness of "Moneyball"-like advanced numbers that capture things not recorded as points, assists, rebounds, blocks or steals (or even scoring efficiency).

Of course, sometimes the single stat is just giving you a nonsense result. You do always have to keep both possibilities in mind.
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Right again. Funny that last year we got rid of +/- stars with weak other stats in Aminu and Curry (and to a lesser extent Harkless) and acquired a PER God in Whiteside, and yet we're considerably worse.
 
Talking of which - isn't Harkless about to be waived by the Knicks? I wonder if Dame would root for him to come back.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Right again. Funny that last year we got rid of +/- stars with weak other stats in Aminu and Curry (and to a lesser extent Harkless) and acquired a PER God in Whiteside, and yet we're considerably worse.
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there are a lot of variables that go into the records of last year's and this year's teams, not just +/- or PER. Like injuries for instance. And there's little doubt this year's supporting cast is worse than last year's, maybe by a mile or two. And keep in mind that with Aminu, Harkless, and Meyers, there had been at least 4 years of developing mesh and chemistry
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we were having a discussion in another thread about rebuilds, retools, and core players

I do believe that PER, winshares/48, and BPM can give a decent indication of who should be considered a core player. They aren't the only gauges but if they consistently show the same thing they are revealing
 
Thank you Kings, now Grizzlies next two games on the road against the Lakers and Clippers. If we lose our 3 games without Dame, we’re still even with 4 games back.
 
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