AROUND THE NBA THREAD. OCT 2021 edition

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Honestly, I can't see Simons as ever being more than a useful bench player. A team wedged up against the Luxury tax has to cut corners somewhere and an undersized SG with limited ceiling is as good a place as any to start.
 
Honestly, I can't see Simons as ever being more than a useful bench player. A team wedged up against the Luxury tax has to cut corners somewhere and an undersized SG with limited ceiling is as good a place as any to start.
Limited ceiling? Can't see him ever being more than a bench player? You're really selling his ceiling short.
 
Question that I’d like opinions on:
With the rookie extension coming up, would you give Simons a rookie extension? Imo, 4 years at an average of $14-16m + maybe $2-5m in possible incentives a year where the fourth year is a team option is not a crazy overpay. $14m + $5m incentives would be slightly under 12% higher than Robert Williams’ extension of 4 years at $11m + $6m incentives.

I think Chauncey’s influence on Simons’ playmaking development will be huge. Assuming he improves at getting to the rim and continues to improve at playing NBA defense—if he develops his playmaking to be a backup PG (CJ-level I’d say), he’s essentially a CJ replacement at the starting SG, meaning CJ and eventually Norman can bring back better quality wings/bigs. With Billups as his coach and his natural athletic ability, I see no reason why he can’t get to the CJ-level. Locking him up now at a cheaper-than-Norman price would mean we have him until he is 25 and we don’t have to make a team option decision until he’s 26.

Hell no. Simons hasn't shown he's worth the MLE. This is as stupid as paying Meyers Leonard or Evan Turner.

Robert Williams is a superior player that contributes on offense and defense.

Ant is only a 3pt specialist that sucks on other areas of offense and sucks on defense. He's a slightly worse PG version of Tony Snell, who makes the vet minimum.

It would be great if he develops to more, but you don't pay 14 million per year for something that could but most likely won't happen.
 
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Question that I’d like opinions on:
With the rookie extension coming up, would you give Simons a rookie extension? Imo, 4 years at an average of $14-16m + maybe $2-5m in possible incentives a year where the fourth year is a team option is not a crazy overpay. $14m + $5m incentives would be slightly under 12% higher than Robert Williams’ extension of 4 years at $11m + $6m incentives.

I think Chauncey’s influence on Simons’ playmaking development will be huge. Assuming he improves at getting to the rim and continues to improve at playing NBA defense—if he develops his playmaking to be a backup PG (CJ-level I’d say), he’s essentially a CJ replacement at the starting SG, meaning CJ and eventually Norman can bring back better quality wings/bigs. With Billups as his coach and his natural athletic ability, I see no reason why he can’t get to the CJ-level. Locking him up now at a cheaper-than-Norman price would mean we have him until he is 25 and we don’t have to make a team option decision until he’s 26.

If there is any team that should know better than to bank on a one-dimensional player ascending to some imagined ceiling it's Portland. For chrissakes, they are still paying for the Allen Crabbe idiocy and Crabbe wasn't an undersized SG like Simons

the NBA average for PER is 15.0 and Simons has a career 10.5. The NBA average for TS% is in the .560 range and Simons has a career mark of .536. The NBA average for winshare/48 is .100 and Simons is at .o36. His career BPM is -3.2. His career assist rate is 10%; Lou Wiliams is at 23%, Nurkic 14%, Kent Bazemore at 13%. Yeah, his marks were quite a bit better better last year, at least they were in shooting. But before Portland pays him they should see if he can build on last season or regress like so many players have. Allen Crabbe had a career year, got paid, and regressed significantly after that.
 
If there is any team that should know better than to bank on a one-dimensional player ascending to some imagined ceiling it's Portland. For chrissakes, they are still paying for the Allen Crabbe idiocy and Crabbe wasn't an undersized SG like Simons

the NBA average for PER is 15.0 and Simons has a career 10.5. The NBA average for TS% is in the .560 range and Simons has a career mark of .536. The NBA average for winshare/48 is .100 and Simons is at .o36. His career BPM is -3.2. His career assist rate is 10%; Lou Wiliams is at 23%, Nurkic 14%, Kent Bazemore at 13%. Yeah, his marks were quite a bit better better last year, at least they were in shooting. But before Portland pays him they should see if he can build on last season or regress like so many players have. Allen Crabbe had a career year, got paid, and regressed significantly after that.
But Neil Olshey says he's the most gifted athlete he has ever drafted.
 
OT

The Phoenix Mercury Are going to do what the Suns could not and win their respective championship.

Even if you don’t follow the Women’s league, you probably still know the name “Diana Tourassi” whom had an absolutely sensational 4th quarter vs Las Vegas to get PHX into the finals last night.

You probably also Know the name Brittney Griner (Also PHX)
 
If there is any team that should know better than to bank on a one-dimensional player ascending to some imagined ceiling it's Portland. For chrissakes, they are still paying for the Allen Crabbe idiocy and Crabbe wasn't an undersized SG like Simons

the NBA average for PER is 15.0 and Simons has a career 10.5. The NBA average for TS% is in the .560 range and Simons has a career mark of .536. The NBA average for winshare/48 is .100 and Simons is at .o36. His career BPM is -3.2. His career assist rate is 10%; Lou Wiliams is at 23%, Nurkic 14%, Kent Bazemore at 13%. Yeah, his marks were quite a bit better better last year, at least they were in shooting. But before Portland pays him they should see if he can build on last season or regress like so many players have. Allen Crabbe had a career year, got paid, and regressed significantly after that.

Let’s compare Ant and Crabbe real quick if you’re going to go there. Crabbe got that 4 year/$75m contract after averaging barely 10pts on 45%/39% in a time when the salary cap was lower. Anfernee getting $14m today would really be more like getting $10-11m back in 2015. Anfernee has at least shown by the end of year 3 that he is a considerably better shooter than Crabbe was through year 3. Crabbe can catch and shoot like Ant, but that was the extent if his shooting ability. Ant shoots off the dribble and often makes difficult ones. To me, that alone makes Ant a better player than Crabbe was when he was ending year 3. Crabbe was also never a good defender either and was never going to be a threat off the drivble. Anfernee is already at least as good on offense given his limited playing time compared to Crabbes 26mpg in year 3.

Not sure if I’m the only one who shares the opinion that Ant through year 3 was better than Crabbe through year 3. Maybe it’s debatable, but if there’s no doubt to you that Ant was better than Crabbe, then $14m a year ($10-11m back in 2015-16ish) isn’t a bad deal at all. If he earned all $5m of his incentives, more power to him. All things considered, even though I wouldn’t offer Anfernee this much, $17.5m/year for Ant now would be a better deal than Crabbe for $17.5m/year back in 2015. So $14m/year right now would probably be the sweet spot for me.

Just to remind everyone, Ant’s most recent playoff performance in limited playing time through 6 games: 6.5ppg/2.7rpg/.8apg on 56%/61%/0. Crabbe through 11 playoff games in 2015: 9.5ppg/2.9rpg/1.4apg on 52%/43%/74%. If I’m not mistaken, Crabbe was also 24 when he got than extension whereas Anfernee is 22 right now. Team option in year 4 limits the risk even more.
 
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OT

The Phoenix Mercury Are going to do what the Suns could not and win their respective championship.

Even if you don’t follow the Women’s league, you probably still know the name “Diana Tourassi” whom had an absolutely sensational 4th quarter vs Las Vegas to get PHX into the finals last night.

You probably also Know the name Brittney Griner (Also PHX)
Speaking of this, Wednesday's game against the Suns in PHX has changed and will tip off at 2PM our time! Thought you guys might want to set your DVRs. Hope the people who have me on IGNORE don't see this and miss the game.
 
Honestly, I can't see Simons as ever being more than a useful bench player. A team wedged up against the Luxury tax has to cut corners somewhere and an undersized SG with limited ceiling is as good a place as any to start.

That is…ludicrous. A more confident Ant is already a useful bench player right now. Even 12ppg/4apg in 2 years at $14m/year would be a good deal for someone who might be considered a premiere backup PG in the league.

Of course that is also just my own assessment of Ant’s ceiling. If I’m wrong in a couple years and you live in the Portland area I’ll buy you a beer lol.
 
Ant is going into a season where he's has to establish himself as a lethal off the bench guy as he wont get to be a starter as long as CJ is here.
 
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Sorry, can anyone tell me what @THE HCP said here?
 
This is Simons best chance to show he's worth a contract. If he has another HCPesque year in him, it's off to journeyman status for him.

I think he'll have a solid year this year.
 
Let’s compare Ant and Crabbe real quick if you’re going to go there. Crabbe got that 4 year/$75m contract after averaging barely 10pts on 45%/39% in a time when the salary cap was lower. Anfernee getting $14m today would really be more like getting $10-11m back in 2015. Anfernee has at least shown by the end of year 3 that he is a considerably better shooter than Crabbe was through year 3. Crabbe can catch and shoot like Ant, but that was the extent if his shooting ability. Ant shoots off the dribble and often makes difficult ones. To me, that alone makes Ant a better player than Crabbe was when he was ending year 3. Crabbe was also never a good defender either and was never going to be a threat off the drivble. Anfernee is already at least as good on offense given his limited playing time compared to Crabbes 26mpg in year 3.

Not sure if I’m the only one who shares the opinion that Ant through year 3 was better than Crabbe through year 3. Maybe it’s debatable, but if there’s no doubt to you that Ant was better than Crabbe, then $14m a year ($10-11m back in 2015-16ish) isn’t a bad deal at all. If he earned all $5m of his incentives, more power to him. All things considered, even though I wouldn’t offer Anfernee this much, $17.5m/year for Ant now would be a better deal than Crabbe for $17.5m/year back in 2015. So $14m/year right now would probably be the sweet spot for me.

Just to remind everyone, Ant’s most recent playoff performance in limited playing time through 6 games: 6.5ppg/2.7rpg/.8apg on 56%/61%/0. Crabbe through 11 playoff games in 2015: 9.5ppg/2.9rpg/1.4apg on 52%/43%/74%. If I’m not mistaken, Crabbe was also 24 when he got than extension whereas Anfernee is 22 right now. Team option in year 4 limits the risk even more.

So Ant on this possible contract is similar or potentially slightly better than Crabbe.

You believe that justifies giving Ant that type of contract?

The Crabbe contract was horrific, so if a Ant deal is similar the Blazers would be idiots to try and sign a player to such!
 
This Ant extension talk reminds me of delusional Blazer fans who said we needed to max Meyers because he was the next Dirk lite 50/40/90.

Ant has not established that he is a rotational NBA player. The Blazers are up against the tax and may have to let one of Roco Nurk walk or be traded in a year. They may not have room to use the MLE. They may not be able to sign NAS if he becomes a starter. With those constraints you don't give out 8 figure contracts out on the maybe chance a player could develope into a role player.

If Ant becomes a role player deserving of such contract then pay him that next summer. Right now he is nowhere close and paying over the MLE is ludicrous.
 
Limited ceiling? Can't see him ever being more than a bench player? You're really selling his ceiling short.

"Ever" seems a bit of a stretch, but for the forseeable future as long as Dame is here, bench is what he will likely be. If Dame/CJ are here, he is a bench player. If CJ were somehow traded for someone like Simmons, then Powell becomes the starting SG and Ant is still on the bench.

So unless there is an injury, Ant could very well be a bench player for the next 4 years at least if he is in Portland.
 
Let’s compare Ant and Crabbe real quick if you’re going to go there. Crabbe got that 4 year/$75m contract after averaging barely 10pts on 45%/39% in a time when the salary cap was lower. Anfernee getting $14m today would really be more like getting $10-11m back in 2015. Anfernee has at least shown by the end of year 3 that he is a considerably better shooter than Crabbe was through year 3. Crabbe can catch and shoot like Ant, but that was the extent if his shooting ability. Ant shoots off the dribble and often makes difficult ones. To me, that alone makes Ant a better player than Crabbe was when he was ending year 3. Crabbe was also never a good defender either and was never going to be a threat off the drivble. Anfernee is already at least as good on offense given his limited playing time compared to Crabbes 26mpg in year 3.

Not sure if I’m the only one who shares the opinion that Ant through year 3 was better than Crabbe through year 3. Maybe it’s debatable, but if there’s no doubt to you that Ant was better than Crabbe, then $14m a year ($10-11m back in 2015-16ish) isn’t a bad deal at all. If he earned all $5m of his incentives, more power to him. All things considered, even though I wouldn’t offer Anfernee this much, $17.5m/year for Ant now would be a better deal than Crabbe for $17.5m/year back in 2015. So $14m/year right now would probably be the sweet spot for me.

Just to remind everyone, Ant’s most recent playoff performance in limited playing time through 6 games: 6.5ppg/2.7rpg/.8apg on 56%/61%/0. Crabbe through 11 playoff games in 2015: 9.5ppg/2.9rpg/1.4apg on 52%/43%/74%. If I’m not mistaken, Crabbe was also 24 when he got than extension whereas Anfernee is 22 right now. Team option in year 4 limits the risk even more.

I replied to you proposing a 4 year extension for 14-16M/year. Are you still working on justifying that number because I can't tell

when I brought up Crabbe, I specifically talked about one-dimensional players...which he was and Simons is. When Crabbe was extended, it was because of 'potential'...some perceived upside. That was a mirage making his contract an albatross Maybe, Simons actually has some potential. Maybe, he'll develop some skill past 3 point shooting. If he does, Portland will have the right of first refusal and can match any offer he gets. But 14-16M a year is kind of crazy until he actually starts proving that upside. This is his 4th season after all. Right now, he's not even an average NBA player and the average salary is in the 8-9M range

there's also this: Portland is paying Dame-CJ-Powell 95M/year. Giving Ant your 15M/year would have Portland paying 110M/year for guards, not counting any others they carry. Yeah, I know Powell will be playing out of position at SF a lot but he's still a guard. Further, Portland would be investing 110M a year in 4 players 6'3 and under. The basket is still 10' off the floor

something else: considering Dame-CJ-Powell, does it make any sense at all to nearly double the average salary for a player like Ant when the Blazers have to re-sign Nurkic and RoCo next summer and Nance the year after?
 
"Ever" seems a bit of a stretch, but for the forseeable future as long as Dame is here, bench is what he will likely be. If Dame/CJ are here, he is a bench player. If CJ were somehow traded for someone like Simmons, then Powell becomes the starting SG and Ant is still on the bench.

So unless there is an injury, Ant could very well be a bench player for the next 4 years at least if he is in Portland.
His statement was talent-based, not role-based. Some starting-caliber players come off the bench.
 
And the Bulls have won their 2 preseason games by a total of 75 points. Carry on FAMS.....nothing to see here.
I kinda like the way the Bulls are assembled. They won't win a Championship this year but they will compete for sure.
 
https://sports.yahoo.com/billups-says-don-t-expect-210037999.html



Blazers Coach Chauncey Billups was on Sirius XM NBA radio and said Dame is all in for this season, but if that changes after this season, and Dame wants to be traded, he won't be trying to talk Dame out of it.

“I came here to coach you, but it’s your career, it’s your life, and it’s your family. I’ve been there before, and I’m not going to be the guy preaching, ‘Stay here, go there, do this.’ I got a job to do; I want to do it with you, obviously. But if at some point you deem ‘Hey, another place is another place for me,’ that’s not going to be an indictment on myself. That’s going to be you making a decision for you and your family.”
 
OT

The Phoenix Mercury Are going to do what the Suns could not and win their respective championship.

Even if you don’t follow the Women’s league, you probably still know the name “Diana Tourassi” whom had an absolutely sensational 4th quarter vs Las Vegas to get PHX into the finals last night.

You probably also Know the name Brittney Griner (Also PHX)
Sky are no joke though. Taurasi v Parker on more (final?) time in their storied careers is pretty awesome.
 
If I’m the Lakers, I will offer Westbrook plus picks for Simmons
 

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