Ayton

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BonesJones said:
Yeah, that'd be an even bigger win. Just don't know if OKC would play ball. I don't know how Miami says no to that when they're getting Lillard and Hield. That's a perfect haul for them.
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We could send Presti a second rounder. He loves picks lol
 
BonesJones said:
I am more on board with Ayton than OG for numerous reasons. I think Scoot could have a good impact on Ayton. It'd cost less to get Ayton. He wouldn't get in the way of Scoot, Ant, or Sharpe. There wouldn't be the risk of him leaving for nothing next off-season.

I think the best deal is something along the lines of this.

POR Gets: Ayton, Lowry, Jovic, 2024 1st Round Pick (Least Favorable of OKC, LAC, HOU, or UTA [via IND]), 2028 & 2030 unprotected 1sts from MIA, 2027 & 2029 right to swap with MIA
IND Gets: Herro, Wainwright
PHX Gets: Nurkic, McConnell, Martin
MIA Gets: Lillard, Hield

Portland takes a chance on Ayton but still gets the upside of Jovic and future unprotected picks.
Indiana apparently wants Herro.
Phoenix apparently wants McConnell. Martin makes sense and could start. Nurk replaces Ayton.
Miami can be coaxed into giving up more because they get Hield too. Maybe they'd even give up Jaquez to Indiana.
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This shows how a multi-team deal makes more sense than just trading with one team. There's a lot more to work with. And it's not Riley vs Cronin.
 
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Ayton, OG, Grant, Scoot & Simons, Shae would be decent. We already have two young 4's why do we need Jovic?
 
Hoopguru said:
Ayton, OG, Grant, Scoot & Simons, Shae would be decent. We already have two young 4's why do we need Jovic?
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I think he has more upside than the other two. If they trade Grant they could conceivably play all three 16 minutes a game at PF and compare. Before then it'd probably be a training camp battle.
 
BonesJones said:
I think he has more upside than the other two. If they trade Grant they could conceivably play all three 16 minutes a game at PF and compare. Before then it'd probably be a training camp battle.
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What's wrong with adding OG as we haven't had a legit 3/D , he's only 25.
 
BonesJones said:
I think he has more upside than the other two. If they trade Grant they could conceivably play all three 16 minutes a game at PF and compare. Before then it'd probably be a training camp battle.
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I think he has a higher ceiling but far less lower ceiling on defense than the other two. Let's not just add talent to our guys without considering the fit. We want defensive minded players around Scoot and Shae. In almost no world does Jovic become a good defensive player. I'm not against taking him, but at this point he's a complete unknown as far as what he can become.
 
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BonesJones said:
I think he has more upside than the other two. If they trade Grant they could conceivably play all three 16 minutes a game at PF and compare. Before then it'd probably be a training camp battle.
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Jovic has the least upside in terms of being part of a contending rotation since he has by far the least defensive upside.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I am so unimpressed by Jovic though.
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I'm intrigued but in a bench sparkplug offense role. Sort of like Matt Bonner, or Andre Bargnani. It would be a good goal for him to strive to have one of their careers.

As a primary asset in a Dame haul? LMAO no
 
blazerfan11 said:
I think he meant Jovic has more upside that our other 2 young PFs, Murray and Walker.
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I realize he was, I just think it would be good to get a guy like OG and some instead of Jovic and some.
We need defensive minded dudes too. Not sure Jovic can be.
We'd have his bird rights too.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I am so unimpressed by Jovic though.
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100% agree.

blazerfan11 said:
I think he meant Jovic has more upside that our other 2 young PFs, Murray and Walker.
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Maybe? To be honest, if any one of the 3 manage to eek out a career as good as Trey Lyles (or better), I'll be impressed. I'll be shocked if any of them match Jeff Green / Thad Young type career arcs.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Only change I would propose is Miami unlocking their 2024 pick as well. I'd like to extract three picks out of Miami, in addition to whatever we got for Herro.
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Yeah, I would demand that ‘24 1st. They would have full bird rights on him, right? I could also see him taking a discount, he’s a perfect fit for them, a seasoned vet that offers something they desperately need.

Ayton, Lowry, Jovic, and 4 1sts would get an A from me.
 
Here is alternative scenario for those who keep wanting OG back for Dame. Consider this roster after a trade that gets 3 1sts from Miami and 1 1st from Indiana:

Scoot/Lowry/Mays
Ant/Thybulle/Keon/Rupert
Sharpe/Nas/Kris/Knox
Grant/Walker/Jovic
Ayton/Brown/Badji

Ant can be traded eventually, as well as Grant, for young players and/or even more picks. If Scoot really is that guy, it’ll be if he drags this team to an 8th seed or even if he can win one game in the play-in tournament. Theoretically, if Scoot shows he can lead a team early, we would have the pieces to make an all in move eventually.

Kris, Walker, Rupert, Jovic—not sure any of those guys play to a level where we would consider them untouchable, but they could show enough to be considered a ‘promising prospect’ to another team. Between everything we get from a Ant/Grant trade + Nas, there’s enough salary to match. And we would have a war-chest of picks, 4 1sts + all but 1 of our own, plus however many come back for Ant or Grant. There might also be a guy that we get from Ant/Grant trade that can can really say he is a core piece with Scoot/Shae/DA.

Although not a fair comparison, I’m going to use Dame’s fourth year as a goal for Scoot’s rookie year. Dame had an unproven CJ, and literally no one else. Who was their best vet, Henderson? I can’t even remember his first name off the top of my head right now. Scoot is going to have an even better prospect in Shae, and has vets like Grant and Kyle Lowry. Scoot will have Ayton, Dame had…Ed Davis.

I’m confident this team could challenge for an 8th seed before a Grant/Ant trade. After, probably not. But if Scoot even wins a play-in game, that’s when I would be confident that he can really lead this team, and I’d be very confident in having all the necessary pieces to trade for a star. If ‘23-‘24 or even ‘24-‘25, Scoot can get us into the playoffs, we can pretty much just wait for the next actual star to want out that fits the team.

If we want OG so bad, we can get expirings from the Grant/Ant trades to offer OG a contract next summer. Toronto isn’t going to want to pay OG what he wants imo, I think $35-40m gets us there. I’d love to have Scoot, Shae, OG, Ayton, AND the additional picks.
 
BankTeller said:
Because OG wouldn’t come here?
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Correct.

Portland can get him to re-sign a contract here, but there's no way they can get him to choose Portland over other destinations as a UFA.

It's much easier for people to accept and extend what they are familiar with versus choosing the unknown that has less-favorable reviews in NBA circles.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Correct.

Portland can get him to re-sign a contract here, but there's no way they can get him to choose Portland over other destinations as a UFA.

It's much easier for people to accept and extend what they are familiar with versus choosing the unknown that has less-favorable reviews in NBA circles.
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Sort of like Powell?
 
I love the idea of becoming a cap space team and absorbing bad salaries and collecting picks from other teams.

Is that really a sound strategy in year 3 (yes, 3) of a rebuild? That strikes me more as a year 1-2 type of thing.
 
Samuel said:
I love the idea of becoming a cap space team and absorbing bad salaries and collecting picks from other teams.

Is that really a sound strategy in year 3 (yes, 3) of a rebuild? That strikes me more as a year 1-2 type of thing.
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If we didn't have Scoot Sharpe it would be fine. We should try to get them better players, even if we still lose.
 
BonesJones said:
I am more on board with Ayton than OG for numerous reasons. I think Scoot could have a good impact on Ayton. It'd cost less to get Ayton. He wouldn't get in the way of Scoot, Ant, or Sharpe. There wouldn't be the risk of him leaving for nothing next off-season.

I think the best deal is something along the lines of this.

POR Gets: Ayton, Lowry, Jovic, 2024 1st Round Pick (Least Favorable of OKC, LAC, HOU, or UTA [via IND]), 2028 & 2030 unprotected 1sts from MIA, 2027 & 2029 right to swap with MIA
IND Gets: Herro, Wainwright
PHX Gets: Nurkic, McConnell, Martin
MIA Gets: Lillard, Hield

Portland takes a chance on Ayton but still gets the upside of Jovic and future unprotected picks.
Indiana apparently wants Herro.
Phoenix apparently wants McConnell. Martin makes sense and could start. Nurk replaces Ayton.
Miami can be coaxed into giving up more because they get Hield too. Maybe they'd even give up Jaquez to Indiana.
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Why reward villainy on the part of Goodwin and by extension Lillard? OG is far superior to Jovic and it's really not remotely close. Those picks are OK, but late in the rebuild for us with a year 8 Sharpe and a year 7 Scoot. We could reroute OG if necessary to get more picks and get Dick and picks from Toronto.

I mean that trade is actually pretty much garbage and lets Miami give us a really crap package for Lillard. Seems you just want to give Lillard his way and give us inferior assets? Why if the Toronto OG package is on the table? The only reason I can think is you want to do what Lillard wants which is, IMO an absolutely horrible idea with far reaching and devastating consequences for us and the rest of the undesirables in the NBA.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
If we didn't have Scoot Sharpe it would be fine. We should try to get them better players, even if we still lose.
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I think Joe wants to jump the line and slide next to Orlando in his team's rebuild vs. behind Houston/Detroit.
 
Samuel said:
I love the idea of becoming a cap space team and absorbing bad salaries and collecting picks from other teams.

Is that really a sound strategy in year 3 (yes, 3) of a rebuild? That strikes me more as a year 1-2 type of thing.
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the value of cap-space is limited anymore. The CBA changed the rules for minimum team salary (90% of cap) making it such that teams will be penalized if they are under the minimum team salary on opening night. And the amount a team is below the floor is added to the team salary as an exception.
Teams below the threshold will not be eligible for any luxury tax distributions (50% this year as the restriction is eased in)

meaning that the maximum cap-space a team can carry into a season is 10% of the cap. That would be 13.6M this year, but it will be a difficult needle to thread to create that maximum space

in other words, team can still use cap-space in the off-season, but they can't really defer much of it past the season opener
 
AmirIcon said:
Slow feet. Weak defense. Weak rebounder. Not things you want to have in your starting power forward. Off the bench? Perhaps.
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wizenheimer said:
the value of cap-space is limited anymore. The CBA changed the rules for minimum team salary (90% of cap) making it such that teams will be penalized if they are under the minimum team salary on opening night. And the amount a team is below the floor is added to the team salary as an exception.
Teams below the threshold will not be eligible for any luxury tax distributions (50% this year as the restriction is eased in)

meaning that the maximum cap-space a team can carry into a season is 10% of the cap. That would be 13.6M this year, but it will be a difficult needle to thread to create that maximum space

in other words, team can still use cap-space in the off-season, but they can't really defer much of it past the season opener
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well, yes and no.

i think it's more penalizing teams holding cap space in the medium and long term. teams can still spike into cap space at given times—it's just harder to plan for and harder to be perma-flexible.
 
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