Ayton

[julius]

I think keon+nas+nurkic works. could throw in a couple of gp2nds.

Zombie Rotation until a trade:

Dame / Scoot / Mays

Ant / Tisse /

Sharpe / Murray / Rupert

Grant / Walker / Knox

Ayton / Reath / Brown

Not that I think that trade would happen, but honestly, that lineup isn't significantly worse than the Heat's lineup.

 

[Samuel]

Not that I think that trade would happen, but honestly, that lineup isn't significantly worse than the Heat's lineup.

I don't think this trade would have kept dame pre-draft or pre-free agency, though. It's something in the middle.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I still think OG would be a fine compliment to Scoot/Sharpe/Grant.

He's not that old. If we could somehow swing a trade that sends out Dame/Nurk/filler and get OG/Ayton, that's legit a team that could make some noise.

Scoot
Sharpe
OG
Grant
Ayton

That's a better team than anything we've had in YEARS in terms of balance and length. It would suck that Dame wouldn't get to experience it, but that team is pretty young. There would be time to gel. Who even cares if you have to pay OG. We have Scoot/Sharpe on rookie deals for another 3-4 years.

My issue with OG has nothing to do with his level of play or age.

1. Injury history and future risk
2. Pending Supermax
3. Chance he leaves for nothing

I just don't see trading for him as being beneficial for building a winner in 3-5 years from now as Sharpe/Scoot/etc are in their prime. Much better to get assets such as picks instead. OG will either have left in free agency, be a hobbled injured vet, or be so overpaid we have no flexibility to build out the starting lineup.

If we were trying to win now with Dame or something perhaps those risks are mitigated by his level of play today. But we don't need any of that play this season, we need it when Scoot/Sharpe are entering their prime.

It parallels many of the same reasons I never liked the idea of acquiring Jaylen Brown for Dame. Those players make sense to pair with Dame - not replace him.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I think keon+nas+nurkic works. could throw in a couple of gp2nds.

Zombie Rotation until a trade:

Dame / Scoot / Mays

Ant / Tisse /

Sharpe / Murray / Rupert

Grant / Walker / Knox

Ayton / Reath / Brown

Sharpe can't play SF now. When he is in his mid to late 20's yes; but you don't risk injury or worse with a very young player being undersized in the physical NBA. Kevin Durant played SG his rookie year.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Kevin Durant played SG his rookie year.

Ah, the genius of PJ Carlesimo. Famously, ALL his shooting guards just wanted to throw their arms around him.

 

[BonesJones]

Is there anyone that would be available for Herro that anyone can be excited about?

I personally think Ayton has a chance to turn it around. And even if he didn’t his contract will be expiring or already expired, so it’s not really a salary issue. Does Ayton improving massively guarantee we win more games? I still think there’s a high chance we’re around the top 5 even with Ayton.

I’m just hurt that Mitchell got Lauri, Sexton, and Ogbaji and we’re going to be stuck with a dude that barely played and a dude who has yet to play a game.

Yeah it'd be nice to get a Lauri type player on top of picks, but that type of player isn't available for Herro and I don't see a team willing to trade for Dame that has picks and a player like that. The market is worse this off-season than it was last summer, partially because of the aggressive moves last off-season.

I've admittedly been out on Ayton for a while now. Don't like his attitude or mental makeup for a guy on that contract. Maybe he could turn it around, but I would rather use future cap space to accumulate assets so that we can trade for sure things instead of maybes once this core is ready to compete at the highest level. I'm just worried about "not having enough assets" to build around a star point guard.

For Herro, Portland should probably go after a first round pick. Can always flip that down the line for a player that fits once they have a better feel for what the next iteration of the roster is going to look like. Or, of course, they can draft when the pick comes around. And at this point, it's time for the Mike Schmitz hire to shine through.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Yeah it'd be nice to get a Lauri type player on top of picks, but that type of player isn't available for Herro and I don't see a team willing to trade for Dame that has picks and a player like that. The market is worse this off-season than it was last summer, partially because of the aggressive moves last off-season.

All the more reason to hold off on a Dame trade until the market changes in December or possibly the deadline.

 

[BonesJones]

My grandpa used to say, wish in one hand and shit in the other. See which one fills up first.

Luckily (or unluckily), Joe Cronin is in control of what he gets back from trades after he trades Dame... Or at least I think he is.

 

[BonesJones]

All the more reason to hold off on a Dame trade until the market changes in December or possibly the deadline.

I don't see the market changing a whole lot. Going through team by team and trying to dream up a realistic Dame package is depressing. A ton of teams don't have tradeable picks.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

A ton of teams don't have tradeable picks.

Yeah, that's what happens when OKC owns like half of them.

 

[Idog1976]

At this point, just give me Ayton, I’ve already talked myself into the idea. Here are some reasons Ayton and Scoot might both be good for each other:

1. Things looked grim for Scoot after the ping pong balls were announced, and he strangely would end up in the best situation for him. Scoot gets CP3’s PnR partner for the last 3 years, a Finals MVP coach, and a former AS vet(
View attachment 57468). Ayton is a reliable finisher and someone that can bail out Scoot on a lot of possessions when he is amongst the trees.

2. Ayton is much more talented than Nurk, but comes with the same mental lapses. He’s going to be a guy who wants touches. It’s going to take a balance of Scoot and Chauncey stroking Ayton’s ego with PnRs, dump-off passes, paint touches, etc. In theory, Scoot could hunt for switches with Ayton as the screen setter any night Scoot plays someone his size or smaller. Then it’s Scoot’s pick between calling his number or giving Ayton a paint touch. If I was coach, I’d put it in Scoots ear to help him get to 20+ppg.

Schematically, this is the year we need to implement a defensive system. No one should need switching, everyone should be required to guard their man. Grant will look so much better on defense simply because he isn’t asked to do the one thing he is terrible at on defense.

Man Lowry has really been working on his lower body strength. I bet he does real damage backing a guy down and "creating space down low".

 

[Idog1976]

He only wants to be a Heat period.

If he had a no trade clause, he can stop Joe from trading him to Toronto.

Right, so it's meaningless. He's not taking a salary penalty by not reporting to camp, this is Damian Fucking Lillard, that guy eats, sleeps and breathes basketball.

 

[riverman]

I don't see the market changing a whole lot. Going through team by team and trying to dream up a realistic Dame package is depressing. A ton of teams don't have tradeable picks.

I see the market changing a whole lot in December when many more players can be traded or at the deadline when teams have underachieved and overpaid for a mediocre team and want to either bust it up or tank. Also teams who overachieve and feel they have a shot at a chip will be wanting to add a Dame to their push for the finals. You can send Dame to an actual contender at the deadline and increase his chances at a ring. Injuries changed our team last season to the point of tanking. Shit happens. If the injury bug hits Miami early and OKC is tearing it up, you might move Dame for picks and youth in a heartbeat for example.

 

[Whyachi]

I don't see the market changing a whole lot. Going through team by team and trying to dream up a realistic Dame package is depressing. A ton of teams don't have tradeable picks.

Was this a bad year to squeeze a trade request out of Lillard? Maybe Portland should have put more thought into Lillard's contract extension, before recklessly guessing Damian's loyalty = training a new generation of young Blazers to take over when he retires.

 

[BonesJones]

I see the market changing a whole lot in December when many more players can be traded or at the deadline when teams have underachieved and overpaid for a mediocre team and want to either bust it up or tank. Also teams who overachieve and feel they have a shot at a chip will be wanting to add a Dame to their push for the finals. You can send Dame to an actual contender at the deadline and increase his chances at a ring. Injuries changed our team last season to the point of tanking. Shit happens. If the injury bug hits Miami early and OKC is tearing it up, you might move Dame for picks and youth in a heartbeat for example.

I'm just approaching it from a "what's available?" standpoint. The problem is many teams lack the assets to get a trade done or outdo Miami's package. I agree that teams may decide to risk it for Dame if there season is going poorly and they want to win, but if they don't have the assets to trade for him, that doesn't matter.

 

[andalusian]

I'm just approaching it from a "what's available?" standpoint. The problem is many teams lack the assets to get a trade done or outdo Miami's package. I agree that teams may decide to risk it for Dame if there season is going poorly and they want to win, but if they don't have the assets to trade for him, that doesn't matter.

I suspect that this means that the Blazers are aware that a shit sandwich will be available later, so why commit to it early? They might still have to accept it, but they should at least see if something better becomes available.

 

[Idog1976]

I suspect that this means that the Blazers are aware that a shit sandwich will be available later, so why commit to it early? They might still have to accept it, but they should at least see if something better becomes available.

Exactly this. Unless we get the Max MIA package I still see him coming back to start the season despite what supposed insiders claim to know (e.g. DroppingDimes20).

 

[Hoopguru]

I'm just approaching it from a "what's available?" standpoint. The problem is many teams lack the assets to get a trade done or outdo Miami's package. I agree that teams may decide to risk it for Dame if there season is going poorly and they want to win, but if they don't have the assets to trade for him, that doesn't matter.

Dont the nets have assets that would best what Miami could offer? Not sure why Miami seems to have a package that can't be beat?

 

[andalusian]

Dont the nets have assets that would best what Miami could offer? Not sure why Miami seems to have a package that can't be beat?

I suspect the Nets are not that interested. They had their fill of disgruntled superstars with Kyrie, KD and Harden recently. Unless Dame opens them as a potential place - I would imagine they would rather see if Simmons can get back to form now that he is, supposedly, healthy.

 

[BonesJones]

Was this a bad year to squeeze a trade request out of Lillard? Maybe Portland should have put more thought into Lillard's contract extension, before recklessly guessing Damian's loyalty = training a new generation of young Blazers to take over when he retires.

Yes.
- Toronto lacks future 1sts because they just traded one to SAS for Poeltl
- Minnesota traded all their future 1sts for Gobert
- Atlanta traded all their future 1sts for Murray
- Cleveland traded all their future 1sts for Mitchell
- Phoenix traded all their future 1sts for Durant
- Dallas traded the rest of their future 1sts for Kyrie.
- Milwaukee can only trade one 1st because they traded for Holiday and don't have a core group of meaningful young players.
- Philadelphia can only trade one 1st round pick right now because they owe 2025 to OKC and 2027 to BKN
- Chicago can only trade one of their own future 1sts right now because they owe one to SAS for DeRozan
- LA Clippers can only trade two first round picks right now and don't have a core group of meaningful young pieces
- LA Lakers can only trade one first round pick right now and doesn't have a core group of meaningful young pieces beyond Austin Reaves.
- Memphis has Ja Morant.
- Golden State has Stephen Curry.
- Indiana has Tyrese Haliburton.
- Sacramento has De'Aaron Fox.
- New York has Jalen Brunson and I think would prefer using their assets to add to their core instead of replacing Brunson with Lillard
- Denver just won a championship with Jamal Murray.
- Utah, Houston, Detroit, Washington and Charlotte are all rebuilding.

That leaves Boston, who can trade 3 of their own 1sts as well as a 2024 GSW 1st. That's four first round picks, which is equivalent with what Miami could produce if they worked to give their best offer. Boston would have to offer better pieces than Jovic & Jaquez on top of that.
And it also leaves Brooklyn, San Antonio New Orleans, Orlando, and Oklahoma City, who could all be wild cards. But I see all four teams being patient and waiting for a star to become available in the coming years that fits their timeline better.

 

[BonesJones]

Dont the nets have assets that would best what Miami could offer? Not sure why Miami seems to have a package that can't be beat?

Yeah, they're my favorite wild card but I feel like they would've made a play by now. Also, would they trade six future 1sts or the equilivant in value? Anything less doesn't beat Miami's best package.

 

[BonesJones]

I suspect that this means that the Blazers are aware that a shit sandwich will be available later, so why commit to it early? They might still have to accept it, but they should at least see if something better becomes available.

Because they're going to have to play Dame, he could get hurt, he could look a little worse than last year, it could be a bit of a problem in the locker room (I think he'd handle himself professionally but your best player and leader not wanting to be there is hard to gloss over), he could be problematic for the development of our other three guards (although I think that's overstated). There's definitely some downside in keeping him around. I don't feel like there's much upside in waiting either.

 

[BonesJones]

Exactly this. Unless we get the Max MIA package I still see him coming back to start the season despite what supposed insiders claim to know (e.g. DroppingDimes20).

Portland still has the leverage to demand as such, and they should. Dame makes Miami the best team in the East. He's a perfect fit for them. The opportunity to go from a team that barely made the playoffs last year (we forget this because of their cinderella run) to the favorite in the East is worth a TON, even if there's no other teams involved. Miami with Dame vs. Miami without Dame is enough of a difference to demand that package. If Miami is haggling over a 2030 1st and Nikola Jovic, then they don't value Dame as much as they should.

 

[andalusian]

Because they're going to have to play Dame, he could get hurt, he could look a little worse than last year, it could be a bit of a problem in the locker room (I think he'd handle himself professionally but your best player and leader not wanting to be there is hard to gloss over), he could be problematic for the development of our other three guards (although I think that's overstated). There's definitely some downside in keeping him around. I don't feel like there's much upside in waiting either.

Well, there is always a risk/reward in anything. Seems like getting a bigger shit sandwich risk is well worth the risk for the potential win of getting more than the current shit sandwich offer.

 

[Whyachi]

Yes.
- Toronto lacks future 1sts because they just traded one to SAS for Poeltl

one thing folks are missing with Toronto as Dame's "mystery team" trade partner... is their FRP used to get Poeltl is top 6 protected. The Raptors almost have to tank really bad to keep their pick. Lillard would screw the Raptors up by winning too many games.

 

[Whyachi]

And it also leaves Brooklyn, San Antonio New Orleans, Orlando, and Oklahoma City, who could all be wild cards. But I see all four teams being patient and waiting for a star to become available in the coming years that fits their timeline better.

Brooklyn just escaped their failed superteam and luxury tax. I think the Nets are perfectly happy with a decent team with lots of picks. Trading all those future assets for Lillard sounds cool, but I think Brooklyn needs a break from super duper win now mode.

Orlando just climbed out of the cellar. Banchero & company is a terrific start to a good team, but the franchise roster is very young and still developing, clearly not ready to go All-in to contend in the East.

OKC is laughing at everyone fighting over picks. The Thunder are set up for an amazing rebuild, and probably just want other GM's to stop nagging them.

Spurs are full rebuild, they need ping pong balls to create a great team around Wemby. Lillard is too good and has become an official anti-draft dilemma. HUGE fines for benching All-Stars and tanking.

The Pelicans have yet to see a full season with Zion healthy. When they were rolling with Williamson early last season, NOLA looked like a raging monster. I don't think they'd be willing to give all that up for a crack at Damian Lillard.

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah, that's what happens when OKC owns like half of them.

and Utah the other half

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I don't see the market changing a whole lot. Going through team by team and trying to dream up a realistic Dame package is depressing. A ton of teams don't have tradeable picks.

A lot of players will be available to trade in December that are not now. Even with Miami its easier to match salaries.

Plus possible a team we aren't thinking of like the Thunder/Spurs/Rockets/Nets/Magic/etc win enough to decide to make a move to win now with Dame.

Ideally we trade Dame before camp - but if the offers suck just wait it out.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

- Utah, Houston, Detroit, Washington and Charlotte are all rebuilding.

And it also leaves Brooklyn, San Antonio New Orleans, Orlando, and Oklahoma City, who could all be wild cards. But I see all four teams being patient and waiting for a star to become available in the coming years that fits their timeline better.

This is a good list - yes it only takes one of these deciding to make a move to win now with Dame. Probably unlikely any one of them does that, but its extremely unlikely none of these teams are overachieve next season.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Because they're going to have to play Dame, he could get hurt, he could look a little worse than last year, it could be a bit of a problem in the locker room (I think he'd handle himself professionally but your best player and leader not wanting to be there is hard to gloss over), he could be problematic for the development of our other three guards (although I think that's overstated). There's definitely some downside in keeping him around. I don't feel like there's much upside in waiting either.

It appears your assuming the Heat have offered everything they can. Many rumors they are not offering all their assets.