Batum for MIP? (1 Viewer)

[SantaDora]

Wallace is a better player than Varejao - you only do this if the season is done and you have no chance of getting Oden back - and you better get a pick with that trade.

 

[magnifier661]

Is "True Value" some new stat I haven't heard of before?

Regardless I'm talking about about roles and wins added. Of course Varejao isn't a volume scorer and the focal point of his team's offense, but given what he does and and just how well he does it (plus factoring age and likely rates of decline in the next 3 or 4 years) I think Varejao would probably fill a greater hole in Portland than the one Wallace would create with his departure ... and the sheer gap in "production" isn't nearly as wide as you portray it -- especially since PER mostly measures offensive output and is highly influenced by usage rate. I'm not even saying Varejao is a better player than GW, I'm only saying that their value on the basketball court is roughly equal, all things considered.

Okay sounds more understandable... You talked like they were equal value without question, but in actuallity, it has more to do with the direction of the ball club. Personally, Side Show would be a great addition, but not for Wallace IMO. Like his hustle. Him and Noah are of the same cloth, and years back Najera or Foster.

So don't get me wrong. I am not negating Side Show hold "0" value. I'm just saying between the two players; I would pick Wallace hands down.

 

[Nikolokolus]

You busted out the "LMAO" comment off of Rasta's proposal, my only point was that the trade isn't exactly worthy of derisive laughter.

 

[magnifier661]

It still is a LMAO for me. But I am conceding you made a decent argument. I still wouldn't do it, even if we were in a lossing free-fall. Now Camby for Side show would make more sense.

 

[Nikolokolus]

It still is a LMAO for me. But I am conceding you made a decent argument. I still wouldn't do it, even if we were in a lossing free-fall. Now Camby for Side show would make more sense.

And maybe that's something the Cavs would consider because Camby does represent a fairly attractice expiring contract, but Cleveland would still want a promising player in return. Maybe that's the rights to Freeland, possibly Batum or maybe they'd settle for Eliot Williams?

 

[Draco]

How about we trade Batum for Varejao?

 

[magnifier661]

And maybe that's something the Cavs would consider because Camby does represent a fairly attractice expiring contract, but Cleveland would still want a promising player in return. Maybe that's the rights to Freeland, possibly Batum or maybe they'd settle for Eliot Williams?

Batum, i would think twice about, but not out of the question. I would totally give up Freeland and E.Will for him. It's crazy, but with a line of Felton, Matthews, Wallace, Side Show Bob, Aldridge; would be beasty (Side Show, Wallace and Matthews would be a nightmare on the defensive end). I would still love for Batum and Crawford to come off the bench.

 

[Nikolokolus]

How about we trade Batum for Varejao?

I guess I'd think about it ... I do think Wallace is pretty close to hitting the proverbial wall as a 30 year old (formerly) hyper-athletic wing, so that's something that could potentially really bit us in the ass a year or two from now.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Uncle Vodka (mikerice6) was really in favor of that Orl/Por/Njn trade to open up time for Batum.

It'll be interesting if Batum can get the minutes and the touches to continue to develop.

 

[Draco]

I guess I'd think about it ... I do think Wallace is pretty close to hitting the proverbial wall as a 30 year old (formerly) hyper-athletic wing, so that's something that could potentially really bit us in the ass a year or two from now.

It's definetely something we should be concerned about, but its not an absolute certainty that his game will regress much in the next 5 years. Some players that rely on athleticism have a sharp decline starting at 26 or 27, others maintain their elite play past the age of 35.

 

[Draco]

Uncle Vodka (mikerice6) was really in favor of that Orl/Por/Njn trade to open up time for Batum.

It'll be interesting if Batum can get the minutes and the touches to continue to develop.

Didn't he want Van Exel to leave so Telaif could get more playing time?

 

[Nikolokolus]

It's definetely something we should be concerned about, but its not an absolute certainty that his game will regress much in the next 5 years. Some players that rely on athleticism have a sharp decline starting at 26 or 27, others maintain their elite play past the age of 35.

Not an absolute certainty, but probably a near certainty. High flyers without much of a jumper have not historically aged really well. There's always exceptions, but GW hasn't exactly been the picture of durability over his 11 years in the league and he's take a ton of spills to the floor ... and to the ER.

 

[Sinobas]

Uncle Vodka (mikerice6) was really in favor of that Orl/Por/Njn trade to open up time for Batum.

It'll be interesting if Batum can get the minutes and the touches to continue to develop.

Our bench has sucked so far this season, and Batum has had a chance (and failed) to make an impact off the bench. He looks passive and weak on both ends.

 

[MickZagger]

Our bench has sucked so far this season, and Batum has had a chance (and failed) to make an impact off the bench. He looks passive and weak on both ends.

Let the season breathe a little bit. Sheesh.

 

[Sinobas]

Let the season breathe a little bit. Sheesh.

The problem is, it's a continuation from last year, when he came off the bench for Wallace. He'd only assert himself every few games, and then be invisible.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I dunno ... aside from his piddly shooting percentage I thought Nic looked OK tonight

 

[Sinobas]

I dunno ... aside from his piddly shooting percentage I thought Nic looked OK tonight

He played very well in the 2nd half tonight. I just wish we'd see that more often.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Its seems like each year Batum spends part of the season finding exactly how his role with the team is going to work. When you factor in our ever changing line-ups the last few years and Batum's improvement overseas this summer Im not surprised that it will take him a little bit to get going. His 2nd half was much better.

 

[craigehlo]

I do think Wallace is pretty close to hitting the proverbial wall as a 30 year old (formerly) hyper-athletic wing, so that's something that could potentially really bit us in the ass a year or two from now.

I think Wallace in 2 years still projects better than Batum in 2 years.

 

[Boise Blazer]

I think Wallace in 2 years still projects better than Batum in 2 years.

Ironically though, when Batum plays aggressively like he did last night posting up Jimmer for example and when he is aggressive on the defensive end he reminds me a lot of Wallace. I cant help but wonder if Batum played major minutes with that intensity would he have the same impact on the game that Wallace does?

 

[craigehlo]

Ironically though, when Batum plays aggressively like he did last night posting up Jimmer for example and when he is aggressive on the defensive end he reminds me a lot of Wallace. I cant help but wonder if Batum played major minutes with that intensity would he have the same impact on the game that Wallace does?

He can't take over a game like Wallace without attacking the boards harder and pushing the ball. I think he's got it in him, but I'd like to see him emulate Wallace in that aspect of his game.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Personally I think some of us have unrealistic expectation for guys coming off the bench. Very few are "micro waves" . It takes most longer to warm up. Thats why those who are used to starting HATE coming off the bench. As long as Batum does he is going to be inconsistent. He will disappear for times. Batum will defer to others who may be warmed up.

Crawford is used to it. He needs to continue to come off the bench. The question in my mind is who to start between Batum and Wes. Who is better coming off the bench? Right now I am leaning to starting Batum at the SG spot and hoping Wes is better suited to coming off the bench. I think we need Batum's to be more of an offensive force and I think he may have to start in order to do so.

 

[Draco]

Ironically though, when Batum plays aggressively like he did last night posting up Jimmer for example and when he is aggressive on the defensive end he reminds me a lot of Wallace. I cant help but wonder if Batum played major minutes with that intensity would he have the same impact on the game that Wallace does?

Thats like saying if Rasheed had the drive of Michael Jordan I wonder how good he would've been?

It's irrelevant because thats not the player Batum is. People comparing Batum's struggles to "Lamarshmello" is laughable, LMA was scoring 20ppg in the playoffs and the second best player on this team since his sophmore season. Batums best playoff series he scored 8ppg. Batum has been no where close to the level of an underachieving Lamarcus. I thought Batum looked solid last night, and I love having him off the bench, but he still looks like a role player to me and not a possible cornerstone of a franchise.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Thats like saying if Rasheed had the drive of Michael Jordan I wonder how good he would've been?

It's irrelevant because thats not the player Batum is. People comparing Batum's struggles to "Lamarshmello" is laughable, LMA was scoring 20ppg in the playoffs and the second best player on this team since his sophmore season. Batums best playoff series he scored 8ppg. Batum has been no where close to the level of an underachieving Lamarcus. I thought Batum looked solid last night, and I love having him off the bench, but he still looks like a role player to me and not a possible cornerstone of a franchise.

He doesnt remind of LMA, he reminds me of Wallace, at times. And I agree he has a long way to go to be that player. His flashes simply show me that he has the tools to do it.

 

[magnifier661]

As much as I would love for us to start Batum at sg, I doubt it will happen. Just not nate's style. The only time you will see any major shake up is when we have a series of let down, like losing 4 or 5 in a row. What I do expect is seeing more of that Crawford, Batum, Wallace, lma, camby line-up. I think that will be used more.

 

[illmatic99]

It doesn't really matter if he starts or not, but he HAS to play at least 30 mpg. Watching Kurt, JCross, and even Chris Johnson coming in before him was criminal. Nate needs to realize that Nic can play multiple positions, and just because GW has it going, doesn't mean Nic can't play.

 

[BBert]

I love having Nico and Crash on the court together. I'm not so sure how well Crawchuck and Weschuck will coexist though. Teasing aside, they both are suited to come off the bench and look for their own shots, IMO. And since neither are SFs, Crawchuck becomes the point guard, which is not ideal.