Rumor Batum for Taj Gibson

[Denny Crane]

Only if LA were to bounce.

It would have to be more though... Taj+Snell+22 for Batum.

Asking a lot for a guy you guys don't like and who didn't perform all that great last year and who makes a BIG paycheck.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Asking a lot for a guy you guys don't like and who didn't perform all that great last year and who makes a BIG paycheck.

I like him. I wasn't happy with his play last season but there are only a handful of small forwards that are clearly better than him.

Batum would help the Bulls a ton, him and Noah are great passers at their positions. Ball movement wouldn't be an issue for the Bulls anymore. Taj, Snell and the draft pick are a good swap. Taj's minutes will decrease next season likely, Snell is a role player who will fight for spot backup minutes with McDermott and the draft pick is just that... A draft pick.

 

[Denny Crane]

I like him. I wasn't happy with his play last season but there are only a handful of small forwards that are clearly better than him.

Batum would help the Bulls a ton, him and Noah are great passers at their positions. Ball movement wouldn't be an issue for the Bulls anymore. Taj, Snell and the draft pick are a good swap. Taj's minutes will decrease next season likely, Snell is a role player who will fight for spot backup minutes with McDermott and the draft pick is just that... A draft pick.

Assuming Taj doesn't start for you, he's a 6th man of the year candidate kind of player off your bench. Something it seems the Blazers really have needed for the past few seasons. I think he'd play starter's minutes for you whether he starts or not. Coaches do tend to play their best players the most minutes.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

FWIW

Batum shot .400 and .324 from 3pt with a PER of 13.1 and is being paid $12M.

Gibson shot .502, had a 16.1 PER, and is being paid $8M.

That's why PER sucks balls.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Batum had an off year, and still had the second most assists of all small forwards (behind LeBron James). Last year Batum was one of single-digit players in NBA history to have a five-by-five. Gibson is... a solid backup PF, good defender, good rebounder, below average scorer. Those really aren't that hard to find. Like him or hate him, Batum has a pretty unique skillset.

 

[Denny Crane]

Batum had an off year, and still had the second most assists of all small forwards (behind LeBron James). Last year Batum was one of single-digit players in NBA history to have a five-by-five. Gibson is... a solid backup PF, good defender, good rebounder, below average scorer. Those really aren't that hard to find. Like him or hate him, Batum has a pretty unique skillset.

I think he does have a good skill set, no doubt.

I don't think that wing players shooting .400 and .324 from 3pt are helping _that_ much over the long haul.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I feel like a broken record here: don't trade Batum just because he's our only tradeable asset. Are people really so senile that they forget
(a) he had a torn ligament in his wrist
(b) our starting five was one of the best in the league, it was our BENCH that was the problem
(c) in the first half of the season we had a top five offense AND defense
(d) Lillard thinks Batum is the most underrated player in the league.

EVERY FUCKING YEAR people fall in love with the draft. Unless you're the GM of the Spurs, trading a starter for a pick outside the top 3 is likely to be a big mistake, and even if it isn't, is likely not to pay off for years. Trading Batum is something you do if Aldridge leaves and you're blowing up and starting massive rebuild. If that happens, I don't know if I can take it.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Assuming Taj doesn't start for you, he's a 6th man of the year candidate kind of player off your bench. Something it seems the Blazers really have needed for the past few seasons. I think he'd play starter's minutes for you whether he starts or not. Coaches do tend to play their best players the most minutes.

I agree with Taj playing a lot of minutes here if a trade happened. It's in Chicago where he will be sitting, thus his value decreases.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think he does have a good skill set, no doubt.

I don't think that wing players shooting .400 and .324 from 3pt are helping _that_ much over the long haul.

So you should be glad that this trade has zero chance of happening.

 

[Denny Crane]

I agree with Taj playing a lot of minutes here if a trade happened. It's in Chicago where he will be sitting, thus his value decreases.

I think it's Noah who's going to be sitting and Taj will play plenty.

For the same reason: you play your best players the most minutes

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I agree with Taj playing a lot of minutes here if a trade happened. It's in Chicago where he will be sitting, thus his value decreases.

Yeah, because if that trade happens either Olshey already knows Aldridge is gone, or Aldridge sees that trade and says "fuck this, I'm out of here".

 

[Denny Crane]

So you should be glad that this trade has zero chance of happening.

I think it's an interesting trade because it helps both teams. You get your sixth man, we get the missing starting SF.

How hard is it to find a SF who shoots .400 from the field?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think it's Noah who's going to be sitting and Taj will play plenty.
For the same reason: you play your best players the most minutes

If you don't realize how important Noah has been to your team, then you're not a true Bulls fan. Unless you just mean that he's so banged up now his game has dropped off irreparably.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

I think it's Noah who's going to be sitting and Taj will play plenty.

For the same reason: you play your best players the most minutes

Idk, we'll see. I think the Bulls are going to draft a Center this year to give Noah more rest. Mirotic is gonna get more minutes than Taj next season, right? If so, that means Noah, Pau and Mirotic will get more floor time. Factor in the rookie center, how much time will Gibson actually get?

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Uhhhhh no. Not in a million years. I'd rather play Leonard 48 mpg than trade batum for Gibson.

Pf is one of the easiest positions to fill. I think it's obvious Portland pursues Greg Monroe, Paul millsap, and Kevin love if lma leaves

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think it's an interesting trade because it helps both teams. You get your sixth man, we get the missing starting SF.
How hard is it to find a SF who shoots .400 from the field?

Yes focus on that one stat and ignore everything else Batum does, why dontcha.

It doesn't help both teams. Which is why the Blazers won't do it.

 

[Denny Crane]

Idk, we'll see. I think the Bulls are going to draft a Center this year to give Noah more rest. Mirotic is gonna get more minutes than Taj next season, right? If so, that means Noah, Pau and Mirotic will get more floor time. Factor in the rookie center, how much time will Gibson actually get?

Take a look at Noah's stats and get back to me

 

[Denny Crane]

Yes focus on that one stat and ignore everything else Batum does, why dontcha.

It doesn't help both teams. Which is why the Blazers won't do it.

.324 from 3pt.

There's a second stat for you

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Yeah, because if that trade happens either Olshey already knows Aldridge is gone, or Aldridge sees that trade and says "fuck this, I'm out of here".

I agree, that's why I said "only if LA bounces"

 

[PtldPlatypus]

FWIW

Batum shot .400 and .324 from 3pt with a PER of 13.1 and is being paid $12M.

Gibson shot .502, had a 16.1 PER, and is being paid $8M.

The $4M difference and the Bulls being already over the LT (maybe without Dunleavy they're not), I don't see the Bulls doing it anyway.

Of course, Gibson's usage rate was 3 points higher than Batum's, which basically accounts for the entire PER disparity. Looking at other advanced stats, however, Batum (who's 3 years younger, by the way), had significantly higher BPM and VORP.

Even in the worst season of his career, Batum has a more positive impact on his team than Gibson.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Take a look at Noah's stats and get back to me

Yeah, they weren't good. Play him less minutes though (say 25-26) and let him focus on help defense and moving the ball effectively and you'll have a great Marcus Camby type player... Also decreasing his value so you don't have to pay him elite money next year

 

[Denny Crane]

Of course, Gibson's usage rate was 3 points higher than Batum's, which basically accounts for the entire PER disparity. Looking at other advanced stats, however, Batum (who's 3 years younger, by the way), had significantly higher BPM and VORP.

Even in the worst season of his career, Batum has a more positive impact on his team than Gibson.

So you're saying it's better to have the guy who doesn't shoot or score as much, when comparing shooting and scoring?

OK. If you say so.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah, they weren't good. Play him less minutes though (say 25-26) and let him focus on help defense and moving the ball effectively and you'll have a great Marcus Camby type player... Also decreasing his value so you don't have to pay him elite money next year

I think the Bulls would love to dump him and his salary at this point. Or maybe not if they think he puts butts in the seats.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So you're saying it's better to have the guy who doesn't shoot or score as much, when comparing shooting and scoring?

OK. If you say so.

If he makes up for that by the way he defends and distributes, thereby improving his team's overall performance, then yes.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

I think the Bulls would love to dump him and his salary at this point. Or maybe not if they think he puts butts in the seats.

As much as I hate Noah and his attitude and general not being able to shut the fuck up about the team he is playing against in the media... If a gun were pointed to my head I'd trade Batum and Kaman for him easily.

 

[Denny Crane]

If he makes up for that by the way he defends and distributes, thereby improving his team's overall performance, then yes.

If improving the team's overall performance and chance to win is a concern, Taj's WS/48 was .137 while Batum's was .105.

 

[Denny Crane]

As much as I hate Noah and his attitude and general not being able to shut the fuck up about the team he is playing against in the media... If a gun were pointed to my head I'd trade Batum and Kaman for him easily.

Get Olshey on the phone. I think the Bulls might actually do this.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If improving the team's overall performance and chance to win is a concern, Taj's WS/48 was .137 while Batum's was .105.

Ugh. If you know how win shares are calculated, you should know that the PER disparity and the WS/48 disparity are both explained by the higher usage. BPM (box plus/minus) and VORP (value over replacement player) actually reflect non-scoring contributions.

 

[Denny Crane]

Ugh. If you know how win shares are calculated, you should know that the PER disparity and the WS/48 disparity are both explained by the higher usage. BPM (box plus/minus) and VORP (value over replacement player) actually reflect non-scoring contributions.

What's wrong with higher usage? I take that as an indicator that he's a better player on offense, and he's really known for being a great defensive player.

 

[RR7]

I think it's an interesting trade because it helps both teams. You get your sixth man, we get the missing starting SF.

How hard is it to find a SF who shoots .400 from the field?

Keep trying to sell us. Sounds similar when you were trying to convince me that Deng and Boozer for Aldridge was a good trade. Or one Chicago wouldn't do.

So you say Chicago lands their missing SF, and then for Portland, say how easy he'll be to replace. If he's that easy to replace, why does Chicago having a hole there?