Batum trade revisited

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
Orion Bailey said:
Listen you may very well think Nic is LOYAL to us for whatever reason, but the facts of history prove otherwise.
If he was, he wouldn't have played for France last summer, knowing full well it fatigues him. Portland has never been his #1 priority while here. What makes you think he is loyal other than his departing message? He played us for more money. He played summer league knowing it would affect his game for the team that actually PAYS him. He was never loyal.
Click to expand...

Please don't knock on him because he played for France.
Sincerly, a French guy.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I get that, but I don't think we can be sure that the trade will be a long term gain, and I'm one of the people who thinks being better should always be the goal.
Click to expand...
my gut reaction at the time of the trade was not good, but I consoled myself on the potential of adding a lotto front court player. Unfortunately Vonleh has proven to be a major project on offense, so any long term gain (where he's better then say Ed Davis) is many years away. Well before that happens his contract will be up and he either will walk via FA or Portland will have to pay the market rate that posters are complaining about.

Add Batum to this roster and Portland would have home court advantage in round 1 and I'd be a hell of a lot more enthusiastic about their overall chances.

STOMP
 
craigehlo said:
I've seen plenty of the Hornets on League Pass this year and Batum is the same guy that totally frustrated Blazer fans. Passes up wide open shots and pulls the ball back on the break.
Click to expand...
Nic is the reason the Hornets are so much worse this year compared to last right? Well having Al Jefferson out most of the season hasn't helped either, but Batum and his balanced all around game is the real culprit here right?

STOMP
 
jlprk said:
When McCollum dribbles, his defender must defend against both his shot and pass. When Batum dribbles out there looking to pass, his defender must look only for the pass. And the pass is less likely to succeed, since McCollum can dribble right into the action while Batum must pass in from a distance or he'll clumsily lose the ball.

Last season, Lillard would look frustrated as Batum would bring it downcourt, half-speed because he had to bend over to his knees to avoid the steal, missing possibilities that Lillard beckoned to him were opening and closing, then finally tossing it to a real playmaker out at the 3-point line with most of the 24 seconds used up.

Other than Magic and LeBron, there just haven't been many really good dribbling playmakers at 6 foot 9.
Click to expand...

But now he's over in Charlotte averaging nearly 6 assists a game taking that team to the playoffs... :dunno:
 
jlprk said:
When McCollum dribbles, his defender must defend against both his shot and pass. When Batum dribbles out there looking to pass, his defender must look only for the pass. And the pass is less likely to succeed, since McCollum can dribble right into the action while Batum must pass in from a distance or he'll clumsily lose the ball.

Last season, Lillard would look frustrated as Batum would bring it downcourt, half-speed because he had to bend over to his knees to avoid the steal, missing possibilities that Lillard beckoned to him were opening and closing, then finally tossing it to a real playmaker out at the 3-point line with most of the 24 seconds used up.

Other than Magic and LeBron, there just haven't been many really good dribbling playmakers at 6 foot 9.
Click to expand...

If you hadn't said "last season" or "batum" I'd of thought you were talking about Mo Williams.
 
dviss1 said:
What? We traded Nic for Henderson and Vonleh.
Click to expand...

Right, but the point of contention is whether Aminu has filled the vacancy. So even though Aminu wasn't part of the trade, we don't need Nic, because we have Aminu at a much cheaper salary, so the trade was good. We basically got Vonleh and Henderson for free.

SIeepwalker said:
Please don't knock on him because he played for France.
Sincerly, a French guy.
Click to expand...

If he played for Taiwan I would still think it were wrong.

Not knocking him. I think what he did was wrong is all. Not the first time, but to continually do it when it was visibly affecting his regular season. I'm in the minority on this and that's fine. I think he was wrong to continue to do it when he signed a contract with us. If it didn't have affects on his NBA season, then Id say do it every year, but that wasn't the case... at all...
 
Orion Bailey said:
If he played for Taiwan I would still think it were wrong.

Not knocking him. I think what he did was wrong is all. Not the first time, but to continually do it when it was visibly affecting his regular season. I'm in the minority on this and that's fine. I think he was wrong to continue to do it when he signed a contract with us. If it didn't have affects on his NBA season, then Id say do it every year, but that wasn't the case... at all...
Click to expand...
I honestly don't really think you are in the minority on that. The effect it had on his game cost him his career here in Portland no question. Like i said above, If he was playing for the US then his minutes and the load he was carrying might not have been so great. But playing as a leader on a much less deep French national team that also competes every year in the Euro Championships is the back breaker. I certainly would not tell him to skip National play but for the Blazers to be the ones paying for it was too much in my book also.
 
kjironman1 said:
I honestly don't really think you are in the minority on that. The effect it had on his game cost him his career here in Portland no question. Like i said above, If he was playing for the US then his minutes and the load he was carrying might not have been so great. But playing as a leader on a much less deep French national team that also competes every year in the Euro Championships is the back breaker. I certainly would not tell him to skip National play but for the Blazers to be the ones paying for it was too much in my book also.
Click to expand...

Some people like to be loyal to a country than their workplace. Oh well, who cares?
 
We live in a country where people obsess over their families pre-USA heritage and put a lot of emphasis on being proud of their roots. Collectively we don't have the same national pride that most other countries have. Kids grow up in France and Italy and Spain dreaming of playing in the Olympics for their country. Our kids view turning pro as their goal with Baseball and Basketball.
 
Schilly said:
We live in a country where people obsess over their families pre-USA heritage and put a lot of emphasis on being proud of their roots. Collectively we don't have the same national pride that most other countries have. Kids grow up in France and Italy and Spain dreaming of playing in the Olympics for their country. Our kids view turning pro as their goal with Baseball and Basketball.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Work ain't the end-all be all. Portland probably knew this about Batum (and most countrymen overseas), so maybe it's their fault?
 
On paper Batum would excel on this roster. Especially when teams trap the pick & roll.
- Have Batum set the pick.
- Lillard or CJ gets trapped.
- Batum becomes the outlet man creating a 4 on 3 situation.
However trusting Batum to not make flat foot, one armed passes is a huge risk. Especially after watching him last year...
But nonetheless Batum in that position would be far better than any current forward on the roster.
Though Plumlee would prolly be the odd-man-out if Batum was still here.

But personally? I never liked Batum. His weak attempts inside letting someone like Tim Frazier cause him to miss a wide open layup(that should be a dunk) bothered me greatly. I appreciate Aminu's ability to attack the rim with both hands. It's enjoyable to see someone using their body to their advantage, rather than playing smaller than their height suggests.

As far as getting fleeced in the trade. Don't know yet. Have to see if hendo leaves(& isn't playing better due to contract year). As well as what improvements Vonleh can show.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Right, but the point of contention is whether Aminu has filled the vacancy. So even though Aminu wasn't part of the trade, we don't need Nic, because we have Aminu at a much cheaper salary, so the trade was good. We basically got Vonleh and Henderson for free.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no. I don't agree with this notion. My point of contention was not whether Aminu has filled the production. It's whether Henderson or Vonleh has. That's who we traded Nic for.
 
dviss1 said:
Yeah, no. I don't agree with this notion. My point of contention was not whether Aminu has filled the production. It's whether Henderson or Vonleh has. That's who we traded Nic for.
Click to expand...

But you weren't in the conversation earlier. Scroll up? :)
 
Orion Bailey said:
But you weren't in the conversation earlier. Scroll up? :)
Click to expand...

You're right. I came in at the end of it and made an attempt to dispel that silly notion of including Aminu's production.

Orion Bailey said:
Where are Aminu's stats?

AMINU
GP MPG FG% RPG APG BLKPG STPG PFPG PPG
10 30.2 .470 7.2 1.9 1.0 1.2 1.7 13.9

NIC
GP MPG FG% RPG APG BLKPG STPG PFPG PPG
8 31.6 .442 5.3 6.4 0.1 0.8 1.8 15.6

So your right, he hasn't outperformed Nic, but is pretty much on par. So Vonleh was basically a freebie. This was a great trade.
Click to expand...

dviss1 said:
What? We traded Nic for Henderson and Vonleh.
Click to expand...
 
dviss1 said:
You're right. I came in at the end of it and made an attempt to dispel that silly notion of including Aminu's preduction.



What? We traded Nic for Henderson and Vonleh.
Click to expand...

My point is this.

Regardless of who was traded for who, Aminu is the person who has filled Nic's position form last year and has done so in similiar fashion to what Nic's prodcution was last year, but we got Aminu for much less. Does that not make Hendo and Vonleh basically freebies?

Maybe some are comparing numbers across the board, but IM evaluating NO's moves and I think he did great. I think the Aminu signing made Nic leaving a wash and so we got Vonleh and Hendo for free. Hope that makes more sense.
 
Orion Bailey said:
My point is this.

Regardless of who was traded for who, Aminu is the person who has filled Nic's position form last year and has done so in similiar fashion to what Nic's prodcution was last year, but we got Aminu for much less. Does that not make Hendo and Vonleh basically freebies?

Maybe some are comparing numbers across the board, but IM evaluating NO's moves and I think he did great. I think the Aminu signing made Nic leaving a wash and so we got Vonleh and Hendo for free. Hope that makes more sense.
Click to expand...

Understand your notion, I simply don't agree with it. And I think that this team would be better with Nic Batum at SF instead of Aminu.
 
See I think we should've kept Batum and STILL brought in Aminu. At that point we could start Nic or CJ depending on who won the spot. We'd be MUCH better defensively with a lineup of

Dame
Batum
Harkless
Aminu
Plumlee (or Davis who I really feel should start)
 
dviss1 said:
See I think we should've kept Batum and STILL brought in Aminu. At that point we could start Nic or CJ depending on who won the spot. We'd be MUCH better defensively with a lineup of

Dame
Batum
Harkless
Aminu
Plumlee (or Davis who I really feel should start)
Click to expand...

If we want the best defensive lineup I'd go;

CJ
Batum
Harkless
Aminu
Davis

If we put Hendo in Batum's spot; its fairly comparable.
 
Strenuus said:
Talk about CJ carrying the load lol.
Click to expand...

Yeah I enjoyed watching the games Lillard was out; we see a whole different element of CJ's game when he has the chance to run the whole show.

The team's consistently been better with just CJ than just Dame; and plus/minus reflects that. Of course we're best with both of them in.
 
Draco said:
If we want the best defensive lineup I'd go;

CJ
Batum
Harkless
Aminu
Davis

If we put Hendo in Batum's spot; its fairly comparable.
Click to expand...

I like to keep Dame in the game. I'm saying CJ off the bench at the 1-2 spots with Batum and Dame is a hell of a guard rotation.
 
Draco said:
Yeah I enjoyed watching the games Lillard was out; we see a whole different element of CJ's game when he has the chance to run the whole show.

The team's consistently been better with just CJ than just Dame; and plus/minus reflects that. Of course we're best with both of them in.
Click to expand...

We have had multiple games where the offense sucks when Dame is off the floor, as well. +/- doesn't reflect that.

Sources: all the games I've watched and the game threads relaying as such.
 
Strenuus said:
We have had multiple games where the offense sucks when Dame is off the floor, as well. +/- doesn't reflect that.

Sources: all the games I've watched and the game threads relaying as such.
Click to expand...

Actually it does.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Cippy91
The Batum trade
2 3
Replies
65
Views
3K
illmatic99
illmatic99
Rastapopoulos
  • Poll Poll
Would you trade for Batum?
2
Replies
59
Views
3K
stampedehero
stampedehero
B
Trade Batum
2 3
Replies
65
Views
5K
Minstrel
Minstrel
SlyPokerDog
  • Poll Poll
Vonleh or Batum?
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
blue9
blue9
Rastapopoulos
Rubio revisited
2
Replies
58
Views
5K
Nikolokolus
Nikolokolus

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top