Bayless DNP's

[Jayps15]

No, he was hurt after or at the tail end of summer league. Look it up. Apology accepted.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague2009/players/index.jsp?player=patrick_mills

NBA Las Vegas Summer League, Patrick Mills, 0 games played

From the Oregonian-http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2009/10/trail_blazers_sign_guard_patty.html

Relevant Part- "Mills, who fractured the fifth metatarsal in his right foot during an NBA Summer League practice session on July 9, underwent successful surgery on July 13 and is continuing his rehabilitation on schedule."

The Blazers 1st Summer League game was on July 13.

I'll accept your apology in the form 'I'm a little teapot', typed out for my amusement.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Haha, way to delete your post to keep from looking like an ass.

I deleted it because it was wrong.

However, if I can be serious for a moment. Mills is a PG and when he played against Oregon those last two years, he was clearly the best player on the court. He did well in the Olympics and is a natural PG. Bayless is a SG we're trying to convert to PG. Very few can make the transition and he doesn't seem to be making it.

I think the team is trying to commit to Mills as a future PG. I think what Bayless will end up doing for us is up in the air. In 2 or 3 more years I could potentially see Bayless as a reserve player if Rudy leaves, but otherwise, he probably should be traded to a team where he can get some minutes like Channing. I still don't see much of a career for Bayless, but really don't see one for him here.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

http://www.nba.com/summerleague2009/players/index.jsp?player=patrick_mills

NBA Las Vegas Summer League, Patrick Mills, 0 games played

From the Oregonian-http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2009/10/trail_blazers_sign_guard_patty.html

Relevant Part- "Mills, who fractured the fifth metatarsal in his right foot during an NBA Summer League practice session on July 9, underwent successful surgery on July 13 and is continuing his rehabilitation on schedule."

The Blazers 1st Summer League game was on July 13.

I'll accept your apology in the form 'I'm a little teapot', typed out for my amusement.

Yes, I humbly apologize.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

I'll accept your apology in the form 'I'm a little teapot', typed out for my amusement.

That sounds fair to me.

 

[mook]

THAT is a much more fair similarity

Ed O.

Fairer, at least. Telfair was considered a reach by many in the draft, and never really dominated a Summer League, as far as I can recall. Bayless probably surprised a few people that he dropped so far, and was clearly the best player in SL.

Still, though, yeah...Telfair is probably the closest comparable player I can think of.

God, I would've killed to have had either Bayless or Rudy back when Telfair was a starter.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Well, I did watch Mills play and he's a darn good player. He clearly outplayed Bayless in Vegas and is a better PG. Bayless is a SG in a PG's body.

That must have been some kind of neat trick, since he broke his foot the first practice and didn't play in Vegas Summer League.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I deleted it because it was wrong.

However, if I can be serious for a moment. Mills is a PG and when he played against Oregon those last two years, he was clearly the best player on the court. He did well in the Olympics and is a natural PG. Bayless is a SG we're trying to convert to PG. Very few can make the transition and he doesn't seem to be making it.

I think the team is trying to commit to Mills as a future PG. I think what Bayless will end up doing for us is up in the air. In 2 or 3 more years I could potentially see Bayless as a reserve player if Rudy leaves, but otherwise, he probably should be traded to a team where he can get some minutes like Channing. I still don't see much of a career for Bayless, but really don't see one for him here.

He is absolutely a scoring point guard ... I can't believe you think he's a natural point guard.

 

[maxiep]

This team is built to win now; player development is secondary. Three years ago, I'd be bitching and moaning like others in here for Jerryd to get some floor time, but we're in a different stage. If and when we have a game with garbage time, then I'm fine with Bayless getting some run. If we have injuries, then he can play. If we have foul trouble at the point, then bring him on. Until then, however, he sits until he shows he's more productive than Blake, Miller or Fernandez.

For the record, I expect his talent to force Nate to change the rotation. Perhaps some time next year.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Mills is not anymore a natural PG than Bayless is.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Mills is not anymore a natural PG than Bayless is.

He sure looks like it to me when he plays. I guess the bottom line is that I'd be very surprised if Bayless ends up our #2 PG (barring some injuries) and also surprised if he remains with the team past next season.

But, he is a hard worker and Terry Porter becam a PG, so maybe he will- I just don't see it.

 

[Minstrel]

Telfair is a closer comparison that Erick Barkley for sure. The difference is, Telfair got plenty of minutes before being dealt. I thought he had more potential, but he had been disappointing to that point. He was a much more known quantity than Bayless is. As far as I'm concerned, the better recent comparison to Telfair is Sergio Rodriguez...a very young point guard with flashy passing and ball-handling skills who proved unable to shoot or defend. Rodriguez also got enough time to show those traits before he was traded.

So far, Bayless is still closest to Jermaine O'Neal in terms of potential and chances to show his ability. O'Neal was younger, so had more potential but Bayless was considered one of the best talents in his high school class and was considered a blue-chip talent through his one college season. He was/is a big-time prospect and hasn't had much chance at all to show what he can do in the NBA. That's a pretty good basis for comparison to O'Neal.

That doesn't mean he'll pan out like O'Neal did, but I think it would be a big mistake to draft a pretty high-level talent, bury him on the bench and then trade him for pennies on the dollar after all the bench time has dulled his luster.

 

[LOTBfan]

We needed to utilize bayless for a ball punch on mello last week, his fouls are his biggest asset at this point.

Seriously though, we should put him in late in the third to get some fouls on the opponent's bigs to set us up for the fourth quarter.

 

[Minstrel]

He sure looks like it to me when he plays. I guess the bottom line is that I'd be very surprised if Bayless ends up our #2 PG (barring some injuries)

I think it would take several miracles for Mills to end up our #2 point guard. There's a reason why he was drafted at the end of the second-round. Even the Blazers, the team that selected him, clearly didn't rate him higher because they could have taken him with an earlier second-round pick and would have if they considered him an exciting point guard prospect...you don't risk the possibility of someone else stealing an impact prospect from you just to try and maximize your second-round picks.

The Blazers thought he was an intriguing flier at the end of the draft process. That means that they don't think he'll become anything, but he, at least, has a tiny chance whereas most late second-round picks really have no chance.

Mills is not a high-caliber prospect, or even a good prospect. Maybe he'll surprise and overperform that prospect status. Obviously, the odds are (massively) against it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Mills is not a high-caliber prospect, or even a good prospect.

Why not? Because he went to a small school? (Like Courtney Lee, Kevin Martin, Chris Kaman, et al., et al.) Because he's small? (although bigger than DJ Augustin, Aaron Brooks and TJ Ford, and by some measures, Mike Conley and Jameer Nelson)? Because he's more of a shooter than a distributor (like Aaron Brooks, Jameer Nelson, et al.)? Or just because he was taken in the second round?

Let me guess: all of the above.

Remember also, he was projected higher, and that was in a draft THICK with PGs, where which was better was largely a matter of taste (he was projected by many people ahead of Darren Collison and/or Rodrigue Beaubois) but only so many teams were targeting PGs, so if you fell past one of them, you could fall a looooooooong way.

I just don't see why you can know that he's "not a high calibre prospect", let alone "or even a good" one, particularly if you think Bayless is.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think it would take several miracles for Mills to end up our #2 point guard. There's a reason why he was drafted at the end of the second-round. Even the Blazers, the team that selected him, clearly didn't rate him higher because they could have taken him with an earlier second-round pick and would have if they considered him an exciting point guard prospect...you don't risk the possibility of someone else stealing an impact prospect from you just to try and maximize your second-round picks.

The Blazers thought he was an intriguing flier at the end of the draft process. That means that they don't think he'll become anything, but he, at least, has a tiny chance whereas most late second-round picks really have no chance.

Mills is not a high-caliber prospect, or even a good prospect. Maybe he'll surprise and overperform that prospect status. Obviously, the odds are (massively) against it.

Then why did we sign him?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Then why did we sign him?

Paul Allen ... This was not a Nate or KP move.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Paul Allen ... This was not a Nate or KP move.

Ya know, I like everything about Bayless. I really do. I'm just concerned he won't be able to learn the PG position.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Ya know, I like everything about Bayless. I really do. I'm just concerned he won't be able to learn the PG position.

Which is a perfectly valid concern, but then you come on here and start talking up Mills ... who is basically just a 3 inch shorter version of Jerryd without as much strength and athleticism. Patty's one bankable skill when he was at St. Marys was his quickness, his pull up jumper and occasionally his shot.

admittedly I maybe only watched him play five or six times between the Olympics the year before and last year at St. Marys, but everything I saw was pretty much confirmed by the general scouting report on him that he's got more AI in him than CP3.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Patrick-Mills-1362/

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Which is a perfectly valid concern, but then you come on here and start talking up Mills ... who is basically just a 3 inch shorter version of Jerryd without as much strength and athleticism. Patty's one bankable skill when he was at St. Marys was his quickness, his pull up jumper and occasionally his shot.

admittedly I maybe only watched him play five or six times between the Olympics the year before and last year at St. Marys, but everything I saw was pretty much confirmed by the general scouting report on him that he's got more AI in him than CP3.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Patrick-Mills-1362/

And here's why I like Mills at this point in time.

I just cannot recall who said this, but very recently an ex NBA player stated that PG's are born and not made. Mills is a born PG. All he has to do is to learn the offense and his role in it- if he will accept it. Bayless has to be first made into a PG. The, he has to learn the rest with respect to what we expect of him.

For Mills, it's really a downhill process. For Bayless, it's uphill.

As for why we took Mills... this was one of the most PG heavy drafts I can recall. Teams usually are not in the market to use a 1st round pick on a PG, but this year there were many. Mills slipped as most teams looking for a PG found theirs. So he sank while people scooped up other position players that had even a remote prayer of making the NBA. I think if this draft was a PG weak one, Mills may have risen to the very late first round to top of the second- in other words, he may not be a world beater, but I think he's much better than where he was taken.

 

[RR7]

As for why we took Mills... this was one of the most PG heavy drafts I can recall. Teams usually are not in the market to use a 1st round pick on a PG, but this year there were many. Mills slipped as most teams looking for a PG found theirs. So he sank while people scooped up other position players that had even a remote prayer of making the NBA. I think if this draft was a PG weak one, Mills may have risen to the very late first round to top of the second- in other words, he may not be a world beater, but I think he's much better than where he was taken.

That doesn't really sound like strong support for Mills, though. Usually teams do not owant to draft a PG in the first round? Ok. Fine. This year, 10 teams did. 10 teams found a PG better than him in the first round. 5 more in the second round. 15 PGs better than him in the draft? Strong or not, this wasn't just people filling holes elsewhere.
And if it was a weak PG draft, he would be first round, again, just not high praise. If there were no other 7 footers in the draft, the only 7 footer would be a lottery pick. Doesn't make him good. Just means teams might reach stupidly. Also, more than one team took two PGs over him. So not only was he not valuable enough for them to draft, he wasn't valuable enough to take a long flyer on, when they already grabbed a better PG prospect.

Look, i hope for the best from Mills, now that he is a Blazer. I don't see what makes him a natural PG anymore than Bayless does. He had more 1 assist games last year than he did games with over 7 assists. Really, put up similar numbers to Bayless in college. Where are you seeing the natural PG play out of him?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

That doesn't really sound like strong support for Mills, though. Usually teams do not owant to draft a PG in the first round? Ok. Fine. This year, 10 teams did. 10 teams found a PG better than him in the first round. 5 more in the second round. 15 PGs better than him in the draft? Strong or not, this wasn't just people filling holes elsewhere.
And if it was a weak PG draft, he would be first round, again, just not high praise. If there were no other 7 footers in the draft, the only 7 footer would be a lottery pick. Doesn't make him good. Just means teams might reach stupidly. Also, more than one team took two PGs over him. So not only was he not valuable enough for them to draft, he wasn't valuable enough to take a long flyer on, when they already grabbed a better PG prospect.

Look, i hope for the best from Mills, now that he is a Blazer. I don't see what makes him a natural PG anymore than Bayless does. He had more 1 assist games last year than he did games with over 7 assists. Really, put up similar numbers to Bayless in college. Where are you seeing the natural PG play out of him?

And that's a very astute point you make.

But I loved his game in college (for all of the 5 or 6 games I saw him play) and think that as a natural PG he may just make it.

At least if he doesn't we're not losing much money on him. If Bayless doesn't pan out, we wasted a high draft pick and plenty of time & money.

 

[B-Roy]

And that's a very astute point you make.

But I loved his game in college (for all of the 5 or 6 games I saw him play) and think that as a natural PG he may just make it.

At least if he doesn't we're not losing much money on him. If Bayless doesn't pan out, we wasted a high draft pick and plenty of time & money.

All the more reason to play Bayless over Mills...

 

[RR7]

His game in college was the same as Bayless' game in college. 18.4 PPG. 15.6 FGA per game. 3.9 assists per game. 2.9 TOs per game. 40% from the field, 34% from 3. 2.4 RPG. 3.8 FTA per game.

Bayless was 19.7 PPG, 12.6 FGA per game. 4.0 assiste per game. 3.0 TOs per game. 46% from the field. 41% from 3. 2.7 RPG. 7.4 FTA per game.

Where are you seeing this vast difference in their game/ Other than Bayless being a lot better at drawing contact. Mills was a shoot first PG, with an identical A/TO ratio as Bayless. Where do these differences lie?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Where are you seeing this vast difference in their game/ Other than Bayless being a lot better at drawing contact. Mills was a shoot first PG, with an identical A/TO ratio as Bayless. Where do these differences lie?

The biggest difference is that one is a PG and the other is not.

 

[BBert]

How much of these will he take before he blows?

He went from 12 MPG last season to not even getting in during garbage time.

He's a wasted talent. I can see his agent pushing for a trade by the deadline.

I don't think so. Last year's Bayless, sure. This year though it appears he has been counseled and has gained the maturity to understand the process and where he is developmentally.

Bayless is just a Rudy Fernandez injury away from getting some SG minutes. Or a Blake injury from some PG minutes. Even if neither of those happen, the writing is on the wall. By next season the Blazers will either have a new PG or Bayless will be taking minutes from Blake or Miller, if they are even here. Or maybe he won't be here either. Either way he can't control it so he needs to just focus on his game, improve, and be ready to step in when he gets the opportunity. I think he understands that. Which is giving him a lot of credit I know for someone his age, especially someone so competitive.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

The Blazer organization has taken so many shots at finding a long term PG, I've lost count.

The fact the Blazers signed Mills doesn't mean that much given their history with PGs over the last three years.

I swear the Blazers keep swinging for the fences on these PGs. One is bound to work out . . .

 

[RR7]

The biggest difference is that one is a PG and the other is not.

Based on what? Their identical college games? What has Mills done to be considered a PG? I think the only thing separating him from the tweener label is that he's 6', instead of 6'3" At 6'3", you can be considered a short SG, at 6', you just get to be called a point, regardless. What part of his identical a/to numbers makes him more of a point?

 

[Nikolokolus]

The biggest difference is that one is a PG and the other is not.

I have to ask too, what is it about Mills that makes you think he's a "natural" point guard? Take Bayless out of the equation for a second as a point of comparison, what did Mills do at St. Marys to make you so sure he's "born" to play the position?

 

[B-Roy]

The biggest difference is that one is a PG and the other is not.

Wow, great insight you have there.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Wow, great insight you have there.

Thank you. That's why I 99% right over time.