Bayless needs to start

[B-Roy]

Before I begin, I'd like to clarify that I'm NOT trying to bash Sergio. I really despise his game but I would rather have him play well than play shitty. Inserting Bayless into the starting lineup is something Nate just needs to do at this point.

Firstly, Nate's logic on why he doesn't start Bayless is completely flawed. He doesn't want to start three rookies? Well, one of those rookies hardly ever logs over 20 mins (Batum) and the other one is often plagued by foul trouble. Plus, he ends up having three rookies in the game a lot of the time anyways, since Rudy, Jerryd, Greg, and Batum all play rotation minutes.

Secondly, he's just a better fit in the starting unit. Jerryd plays much better with Roy than with Rudy because he doesn't have to control the game as much. Also, Brandon won't have to share the ball half the time with Sergio.

Thirdly, Sergio can go back to the second unit. It's quite obvious he plays much better with Rudy, but with him in the lineup, Nate has to find a way to sneak minutes in for him and Rudy during the course of the game (Like at the beginning of the second quarter). He won't have Bayless starting.

Fourthly, I think Nate likes using him as a spark plug off the bench, but we already have two of those in Rudy and Outlaw. Plus I think Sergio and Rudy are a more potent combination anyways.

Obviously, people have used these arguments before, but I think it's time for Nate to finally listen. I guess he doesn't want to fix something that isn't broken, but think of it as oiling the machine, not breaking it apart, if you get what I mean.

 

[hasoos]

I completely agree. I also think that part of the reason he needs to start is because of the following:

* He is best teamed with Roy on the floor. You cannot leave either of them, and they both attack the paint. If one gets stopped, the other still is able to manufacture a shot if the shot clock is short on time.

*The best way for the bigs to not get in foul trouble is for them to not get fouls early. Bayless would help stop that.

*We need faster starts. Quit waiting until we are down by 12 points before you put Bayless in, and maybe we won't be down by that many in the first place.

Now I will throw this out there, and this is something I have been talking about since pre season. I think Nate needs to cut down the rotation. 3 guard rotation. Roy, Bayless and Rudy. Every time we are down, and we need to cut into a lead, lately its been those 3 on the floor with Outlaw and Aldridge. It's obvious who Nate trusts to finish a game. They should also be the ones he trusts to win the game from the start. There is not one combination of them out there in pairs, that would be incapable of playing together. Bayless/Roy. Bayless/Rudy. Roy/Rudy. Lots of ball handling, lots of shooting, lots of lane penetration. The other guys can sit on the pine and cry all they want. If were winning, I don't give a rats ass.

 

[craigehlo]

Sergio simply needs to go. He's the Blazer's worst defender and amongst the worst jump shooters on the team. Seeing him getting his pocket picked repeatedly tonight was embarrassing to say the least.

It's time to cut our losses with a marginal player like Sergio and throw him in a trade.

 

[The Professional Fan]

I was waiting for this thread.........I almost started it myself.

For the record, right now, Bayless is CLEARLY, at a MINIMUM, the #2 PG on our team. The question about him starting or not, I'm just not sure. He's a rookie, do not forget. And he will (and has) made rookie mistakes.

However, it's obvious to me that he's trying to fit the mold of an NBA PG. He's trying to pass more. He's looking to other people more, regardless of the outcome. He is trying. Obviously he's a spark plug. And obviously we ALL (except Maris) love the fact that Bayless attacks, attacks, attacks. He set's a tone for this team. He is one of the ONLY difference makers on this squad. Every thing changes when he steps on to the floor (for the good, Maris).

Bayless is special. He has all the tools and all the attitude to be a very, very good basketball player, regardless if he fits in to some role we think he's supposed to fit in to. He's good. And that is that.

Should he start? Not sure. Should he play? Fuck yes.

 

[B-Roy]

I was waiting for this thread.........I almost started it myself.

For the record, right now, Bayless is CLEARLY, at a MINIMUM, the #2 PG on our team. The question about him starting or not, I'm just not sure. He's a rookie, do not forget. And he will (and has) made rookie mistakes.

However, it's obvious to me that he's trying to fit the mold of an NBA PG. He's trying to pass more. He's looking to other people more, regardless of the outcome. He is trying. Obviously he's a spark plug. And obviously we ALL (except Maris) love the fact that Bayless attacks, attacks, attacks. He set's a tone for this team. He is one of the ONLY difference makers on this squad. Every thing changes when he steps on to the floor (for the good, Maris).

Bayless is special. He has all the tools and all the attitude to be a very, very good basketball player, regardless if he fits in to some role we think he's supposed to fit in to. He's good. And that is that.

Should he start? Not sure. Should he play? Fuck yes.

Well, I meant he should be starting over Sergio right now. I still think Blake starts when he returns. (But that will push Sergio out of the rotation)

 

[hasoos]

Well you know, if Sergio doesn't want pushed out of the rotation, maybe he should play better. That is the simple answer.

 

[KingSpeed]

I 100% agree. Start Bayless now and for the next 12 years. Bring Blake off the bench when he returns. We'll have one of the best backcourts in the league and Blake will be the best back up PG in the league. I know this means no time for Sergio, but if I have to choose, I choose Bayless and Blake and it's not too difficult a decision to make.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Man I really love Jerryd's potential, but I'm torn on starting him ... he clearly does something that neither Blake nor Sergio are able to do and that is "warp" the game to himself (to quote a Dave Deckard-ism). When he sets foot on the court I immediately start waiting for something good to happen (even if it doesn't materialize all the time). When Sergio is on the floor I'm more often than not waiting for something bad to happen (even if that doesn't materialize all the time). Blake on the other hand I pretty much know what to expect and we pretty much get it on a consistent basis (hit the open three, take care of the ball, get abused on defense a little bit, have trouble penetrating the defense).

I don't know that I'm ready for Bayless to run the show, but I can't imagine sending this kid back to the end of the bench racking up more DNPs ... that would be criminal.

 

[craigehlo]

Bayless and Roy need to learn how to coexist. That's reason enough to start him.

Oh and that Sergio isn't very good is another reason.

 

[hasoos]

One of the things I see is an opportunity. If Portland pushed him, I think Bayless is the type of player who would take the challenge. If you started him, maybe, just maybe by the playoffs you might have another weapon in your offensive arsenel that is ready to play playoff intensity basketball. If not, your waiting for next year for him to challenge to start. The thing is, I don't see this team as is, challenging the top level teams as is. So what is there to lose? Nothing.

 

[hasoos]

Bayless and Roy need to learn how to coexist. That's reason enough to start him.

Oh and that Sergio isn't very good is another reason.

I agree, there was several times you could tell they were not used to playing together, and the spacing got poor, both ways. Bayless zigged when Roy wanted him to Zag. Bayless drove, and Roy wasn't in a good spot to get a kick out. That comes with playing together, and talking.

Another point I wanted to make about Bayless and his defense. I noticed several times tonight where there was a defensive breakdown, and Bayless was the one talking to players telling them where they fucked up. Several times talking to Travis about the breakdown. A first year guy telling the 5th year guy where he fucked up. that is something right there.

 

[B-Roy]

Oh, and for the record, once Blake comes back, I think Portland needs to decide whether they want to keep Bayless or Sergio. To me, the answer is obvious. I've always been high on Bayless. However, Sergio has good games once in awhile, but I hope that doesn't fool the front office. (It fools the fans sometimes, as we are pretty bi-polar. I see people saying Blake should be the odd man out during nights when Sergio has a good game.)

 

[KingSpeed]

Blake is DEFINITELY a keeper.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Man I really love Jerryd's potential, but I'm torn on starting him ... he clearly does something that neither Blake nor Sergio are able to do and that is "warp" the game to himself (to quote a Dave Deckard-ism). When he sets foot on the court I immediately start waiting for something good to happen (even if it doesn't materialize all the time). When Sergio is on the floor I'm more often than not waiting for something bad to happen (even if that doesn't materialize all the time). Blake on the other hand I pretty much know what to expect and we pretty much get it on a consistent basis (hit the open three, take care of the ball, get abused on defense a little bit, have trouble penetrating the defense).

That was interesting. I agree. There is certainly a level of "feel" that goes on in any pro sport, and for me it's hard to quantify, or explain. That was well done.

 

[hasoos]

Oh, and for the record, once Blake comes back, I think Portland needs to decide whether they want to keep Bayless or Sergio. To me, the answer is obvious. I've always been high on Bayless. However, Sergio has good games once in awhile, but I hope that doesn't fool the front office. (It fools the fans sometimes, as we are pretty bi-polar. I see people saying Blake should be the odd man out during nights when Sergio has a good game.)

I can see some arguments for that, those being that Steve Blake basically has no upside, and the other being that Sergio has "chemistry" with Rudy, so playing backup that would be a plus. My counterpoint would be that Rudy needs to be effective with any guards he plays with, not just Sergio. If you have a problem producing except when only a certain guy is with you, you better pull your game together.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Bayless and Roy need to learn how to coexist. That's reason enough to start him.

I think they will benefit having each other on the court. How do you defend that back court? Either one can bring the ball up. Either one can attack the rim. And, despite what some of you think, either one can shoot (please, don't forget that Bayless is a god damn rookie....he has the chops to be an above average jump shooter....his jumper doesn't look ugly now.....god forbid we give him time to develop)

 

[hasoos]

A lot of folks seem to forget that Bayless was projected to go at #4 before he slid. He was as competitive and devastating weapon in college as guards such as OJ Mayo (Tearing it up in Memphis) and Westbrook(tearing it up in OKC). The difference is those guards are on bad teams and get the playing time, and the rock. Chances are if he was on a bad team and had the playing time they had, he would be in on the ROY race.

 

[MARIS61]

I completely agree. I also think that part of the reason he needs to start is because of the following:

* He is best teamed with Roy on the floor. You cannot leave either of them, and they both attack the paint. If one gets stopped, the other still is able to manufacture a shot if the shot clock is short on time.

*The best way for the bigs to not get in foul trouble is for them to not get fouls early. Bayless would help stop that.

*We need faster starts. Quit waiting until we are down by 12 points before you put Bayless in, and maybe we won't be down by that many in the first place.

Now I will throw this out there, and this is something I have been talking about since pre season. I think Nate needs to cut down the rotation. 3 guard rotation. Roy, Bayless and Rudy. Every time we are down, and we need to cut into a lead, lately its been those 3 on the floor with Outlaw and Aldridge. It's obvious who Nate trusts to finish a game. They should also be the ones he trusts to win the game from the start. There is not one combination of them out there in pairs, that would be incapable of playing together. Bayless/Roy. Bayless/Rudy. Roy/Rudy. Lots of ball handling, lots of shooting, lots of lane penetration. The other guys can sit on the pine and cry all they want. If were winning, I don't give a rats ass.

Uh yeah, that worked like a charm tonight, didn't it?

None of those 3 is a PG who can run a 5-man offense, which was painfully obvious tonight. Also, both Roy and Bayless seem to ignore Rudy constantly when he's open, which is always. Neither has shown much interest in feeding the bigs late in the game either, preferring to take jump shots or go 1 on 3. And Rudy is the only one of those 3 inclined to move without the ball.

I don't think it's obvious at all who Nate trusts to end the game.

I'd say he, at KP's direction, is developing players and trying combinations and testing players in different situations. I expect it to continue through the summer at the very least. If there's a trade, through another season.

 

[B-Roy]

Uh yeah, that worked like a charm tonight, didn't it?

There's a reason Sergio got yanked 3 minutes into the second quarter. Mike and Mike were even remarking that Nate wasn't going to wait until the 6 minute mark to bring in Bayless because we clearly need what Bayless brought more than what Sergio did.

None of those 3 is a PG who can run a 5-man offense, which was painfully obvious tonight. Also, both Roy and Bayless seem to ignore Rudy constantly when he's open, which is always. Neither has shown much interest in feeding the bigs late in the game either, preferring to take jump shots or go 1 on 3. And Rudy is the only one of those 3 inclined to move without the ball.

It's not even running the offense. As stagnant as our offense gets sometimes, once we get a single "spark" bucket it all seems to start flowing again. I don't know, our offense is just....wierd. By the way, Rudy took horrible shots down the stretch, they moved the ball to him multiple times and instead of taking the three, he stepped in and launched two point floaters. *clank* That's what Travis did a lot earlier in the season and it drove me wild.

I don't think it's obvious at all who Nate trusts to end the game.

Why does Bayless always end them then? It's obvious that he trusts Bayless right?

I don't understand how you can say "It's painfully obvious we were showcasing Jack" last year, and not acknowledge that Nate CLEARLY, trusts Bayless more than Sergio, even at this point.

I'd say he, at KP's direction, is developing players and trying combinations and testing players in different situations. I expect it to continue through the summer at the very least. If there's a trade, through another season.

Fair enough.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The question about him starting or not, I'm just not sure. He's a rookie, do not forget. And he will (and has) made rookie mistakes.

So? Right now we have a 3rd year player starting who also makes rookie mistakes. At least the rookie has enough upside and does enough other things to warrant his PT.

Our "starting" PG has a whopping 2 assists in the last two games. His "back-up" has 10. His "back-up" has also out scored him 33 to 11 and has out rebounded him 6 to 1. Bayless has a combined EFF of 39 for the last two games. Sergio's is 6. It's painfully obvious who the better player is. At least Nate got the PT division right tonight. Bayless should be starting next to Roy and Sergio coming off the bench next to Rudy - until Blake gets back.

Here's a comparison of their stats over the last two games. It's not even close. I'm not sure why there is any debate and why Nate has not acted sooner to get the right player in the starting line-up.

2/4/09 POR at DAL:

Sergio Rodriguez:
13:57 Minutes
2 - 5 FG
0 - 0 FT
0 - REB
1 AST
1 STL
1 TOV
5 PTS
EFF = 3
+/- = -4

Jerryd Bayless:
34:03 Minutes
6 - 9 FG
2 - 2 FT
4 REB
4 AST
0 STL
4 TOV
14 PTS
EFF = 15
+/- = 0

2/2/09 POR at NOH:

Sergio Rodriguez:
19:03 Minutes
3 - 6 FG
0 - 0 FT
1 REB
1 AST
0 STL
2 TOV
6 PTS
EFF = 3
+/- = -5

Jerryd Bayless:
24:04 Minutes
7 - 9 FG
5 - 7 FT
2 REB
6 AST
2 STL
1 TOV
19 PTS
EFF = 24
+/- = +16

BNM

 

[MARIS61]

Sergio simply needs to go. He's the Blazer's worst defender and amongst the worst jump shooters on the team. Seeing him getting his pocket picked repeatedly tonight was embarrassing to say the least.

Maybe you're confused.

Sergio is the white guy who had 1 TO, and a steal to offset it.

Bayless and Roy are the black guys who had 4 TO's and 5 TO's, and 0 steals combined.

Or maybe you're talking about some other game in some bizarro world.

 

[hasoos]

Maybe you're confused.

Sergio is the white guy who had 1 TO, and a steal to offset it.

Bayless and Roy are the black guys who had 4 TO's and 5 TO's, and 0 steals combined.

Or maybe you're talking about some other game in some bizarro world.

Oh a whole steal. Wow start that guy right away! Woohooo a whole steal!! That sure makes up for the multiple times he switched on to Dirk and got jacked.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Bayless' speed, strength and ability to get to the rim is a valuable piece to this Blazer puzzle. But if he wants to be a starting PG in the NBA, he has to first learn to dribble with his head up.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Uh yeah, that worked like a charm tonight, didn't it?

None of those 3 is a PG who can run a 5-man offense, which was painfully obvious tonight. Also, both Roy and Bayless seem to ignore Rudy constantly when he's open, which is always. Neither has shown much interest in feeding the bigs late in the game either, preferring to take jump shots or go 1 on 3. And Rudy is the only one of those 3 inclined to move without the ball.

I don't think it's obvious at all who Nate trusts to end the game.

I'd say he, at KP's direction, is developing players and trying combinations and testing players in different situations. I expect it to continue through the summer at the very least. If there's a trade, through another season.

Oh man, I think that is about as far opposite from what will happen as you could possibly get. Somebody is getting moved, there is NO WAY all three of our point guards can coexist ... talk about chemistry and good will evaporating in a puff.

 

[MARIS61]

So? Right now we have a 3rd year player starting who also makes rookie mistakes. At least the rookie has enough upside and does enough other things to warrant his PT.

Our "starting" PG has a whopping 2 assists in the last two games. His "back-up" has 10. His "back-up" has also out scored him 33 to 11 and has out rebounded him 6 to 1. Bayless has a combined EFF of 39 for the last two games. Sergio's is 6. It's painfully obvious who the better player is. At least Nate got the PT division right tonight. Bayless should be starting next to Roy and Sergio coming off the bench next to Rudy - until Blake gets back.

Here's a comparison of their stats over the last two games. It's not even close. I'm not sure why there is any debate and why Nate has not acted sooner to get the right player in the starting line-up.

2/4/09 POR at DAL:

Sergio Rodriguez:
13:57 Minutes
2 - 5 FG
0 - 0 FT
0 - REB
1 AST
1 STL
1 TOV
5 PTS
EFF = 3
+/- = -4

Jerryd Bayless:
34:03 Minutes
6 - 9 FG
2 - 2 FT
4 REB
4 AST
0 STL
4 TOV
14 PTS
EFF = 15
+/- = 0

2/2/09 POR at NOH:

Sergio Rodriguez:
19:03 Minutes
3 - 6 FG
0 - 0 FT
1 REB
1 AST
0 STL
2 TOV
6 PTS
EFF = 3
+/- = -5

Jerryd Bayless:
24:04 Minutes
7 - 9 FG
5 - 7 FT
2 REB
6 AST
2 STL
1 TOV
19 PTS
EFF = 24
+/- = +16

BNM

We lost quite badly tonight, and Bayless got completely schooled over and over and over, so I don't see your point.

Rather than cherry pick 2 games, including one we lost, try looking at a bigger sample size.

How about all the games since Blake went down?

Huge advantage to Sergio.

Or try finding your proof here in the real world:

http://www.nba.com/blazers/stats/

Good luck.

 

[hasoos]

We lost quite badly tonight, and Bayless got completely schooled over and over and over, so I don't see your point.

Rather than cherry pick 2 games, including one we lost, try looking at a bigger sample size.

How about all the games since Blake went down?

Huge advantage to Sergio.

Or try finding your proof here in the real world:

http://www.nba.com/blazers/stats/

Good luck.

No what is sad is that you continue to argue this point and continue to think it is more important than what makes the team win. That is truly sad.

 

[B-Roy]

We lost quite badly tonight, and Bayless got completely schooled over and over and over, so I don't see your point.

Rather than cherry pick 2 games, including one we lost, try looking at a bigger sample size.

How about all the games since Blake went down?

Huge advantage to Sergio.

Or try finding your proof here in the real world:

http://www.nba.com/blazers/stats/

Good luck.

Provide stats. I'd like to see this "huge advantage to Sergio."

Unless you are trying to compare their stats on the season, in which case you would be dumber than I thought you were.

 

[craigehlo]

Maybe you're confused.

Sergio is the white guy who had 1 TO, and a steal to offset it.

Bayless and Roy are the black guys who had 4 TO's and 5 TO's, and 0 steals combined.

Or maybe you're talking about some other game in some bizarro world.

Yea, he's white guy getting absolutely destroyed by both Kidd and Barea. For the 2nd straight game vs. the Mavs I'd like to add.

I'm starting to get the feeling that MARIS61 is Sergio's agent or something since that the only possible justification I can find for defending his abysmal play.

 

[The Professional Fan]

So? Right now we have a 3rd year player starting who also makes rookie mistakes. At least the rookie has enough upside and does enough other things to warrant his PT.

Our "starting" PG has a whopping 2 assists in the last two games. His "back-up" has 10. His "back-up" has also out scored him 33 to 11 and has out rebounded him 6 to 1. Bayless has a combined EFF of 39 for the last two games. Sergio's is 6. It's painfully obvious who the better player is. At least Nate got the PT division right tonight. Bayless should be starting next to Roy and Sergio coming off the bench next to Rudy - until Blake gets back.

Here's a comparison of their stats over the last two games. It's not even close. I'm not sure why there is any debate and why Nate has not acted sooner to get the right player in the starting line-up.

2/4/09 POR at DAL:

Sergio Rodriguez:
13:57 Minutes
2 - 5 FG
0 - 0 FT
0 - REB
1 AST
1 STL
1 TOV
5 PTS
EFF = 3
+/- = -4

Jerryd Bayless:
34:03 Minutes
6 - 9 FG
2 - 2 FT
4 REB
4 AST
0 STL
4 TOV
14 PTS
EFF = 15
+/- = 0

2/2/09 POR at NOH:

Sergio Rodriguez:
19:03 Minutes
3 - 6 FG
0 - 0 FT
1 REB
1 AST
0 STL
2 TOV
6 PTS
EFF = 3
+/- = -5

Jerryd Bayless:
24:04 Minutes
7 - 9 FG
5 - 7 FT
2 REB
6 AST
2 STL
1 TOV
19 PTS
EFF = 24
+/- = +16

BNM

Dude, really? Maybe I didn't make it clear, but I was talking about my uncertainty about Bayless starting over Blake. Obviously Bayless starts over Sergio.

 

[Nikolokolus]

We lost quite badly tonight, and Bayless got completely schooled over and over and over, so I don't see your point.

Rather than cherry pick 2 games, including one we lost, try looking at a bigger sample size.

How about all the games since Blake went down?

Huge advantage to Sergio.

Or try finding your proof here in the real world:

http://www.nba.com/blazers/stats/

Good luck.

You forgot to say checkmate ...