Trade Ben Simmons poll

[BBert]

Incredible impact that completely turned the game.

"He's a thief! But in Philly, that's legal!"

LOLOL

The steals were nice; the passes were better.

 

[BBert]

A CJ for Simmons deal should make Philly fans happy.

CJ in Philly will be just as good as he is now. Given the different situation, he could even see his stats improve. Simmons, OTOH, is a total crap-shoot. He might fit in great and make us better. He might be a terrible fit. He might render the whole thing moot by not wanting to be here and forcing another trade. Too make matters worse, Philly probably won't agree to a straight across deal. They will demand even more assets (that the Blazers can't really afford) just to assuage their ego.

To put it another way, the risk is all on our side. Yes, there is a possibly high reward. Do you feel lucky?

"...Punk? Well, do ya?"

(Aaand...scene!)

 

[BBert]

And then when the team is mediocre again with those two, and Dame asks for a trade anyway, what then?

IMO, acquiring Simmons is doing what Dame has demanded, and whether Ben works out or not, that alone should make Dame less likely to want out.

IMO

 

[KSF-ERIC]

yeah, I agree with that

there has to be some valid concern about the mesh between Simmons and Nurkic, especially if there was a bad mesh between Simmons and Embiid

But Nurkic has a big impact on defense....of course, RoCo does too. But if the Blazers do trade CJ for Simmons, they have a lot of options in starting units and rotations; and some of those options can include Nurkic. If somehow the Blazers can build a good mesh, or even just a decent mesh, with Nurk and Ben they will be a formidable team with lots of versatility

But there wasn’t a bad mesh between Ben and Joel. They had the best record in the East. If Ben and Nurk can do that in the west, I’m good.

 

[BBert]

i must have missed this, but shit this is awful



And people questions why he wants out?

This guy just lowered Ben's trade value some more. Keep it up, Philly fans!

 

[BBert]

From that guy in ATL with supposed contacts:

Posted September 2 (edited) https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/43...-supes/page/100/?tab=comments#comment-1122223
Just got an update this morning.

Philly is calling Klutch's bluff on Maxey. That said, Philly does realize they will likely have to trade Simmons and that he likely won't play another game with Philly. They come to that agreement. It seems like they are willing to hold out and want to see how things shake out. If they are getting picks, they want a lack of chemistry to get the best possible picks. He says the four teams that have the best shot at Simmons are POR, MIN, CLE, and DAL. Teams outside of the mix are TOR, SAC, and Utah. As of right now, the best players available are McCollum, Sexton, Porzingis, Hield, Ingles, Clarkson, and FVV. What would intrigue PHI is Fox, Haliburton, Siakam, Okoro, Mobley, Barnes, Lillard, Covington, Russell, and O.G. A.

He basically said, right now, the current market seems a tad underwhelming compared to around the draft. This could be a massive miscalculation from PHI. They really didn't think Simmons would sit out and not report even if they knew it could happen.

Based on what he is saying, he thinks PHI will wait till DEC to make a trade no matter what just to see what the best offer is at that time. Maybe someone is desperate and the picks have more meaning then. PHI is playing with fire because Maxey is someone they value a lot and this is really screwing up any potential moves for Simmons.

I did not hear any details of Miami or San Antonio in the mix for Simmons. I've already said LAL and ATL are out on Simmons but both were in during draft season. Most of the teams who were in on Simmons still are in. DAL is a new addition, they are in as well and willing to trade KP and picks for Simmons.

Almost forgot, Houston is a team that's also outside the mix but their limited in what they are willing to offer. I heard it's not much value.

So he's saying CJ is the best Philly is going to get. (Cause they ain't gettin' what they wantin'.)

 

[BBert]

I'm still not sure Simmons and Nurk can play together. I don't think I would trade Nurk right away because I want to see what happens though.

Start Simmons at Point Center. Nurk comes off the bench.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Maybe not one particular piece, but the thought for Philly of hoping to flip assets at a later date for someone like Beal, Lavine, etc.?

Philly is trying to win a title now, Embiid could break down for good any year as Yao did. They aren't going to trade Simmons for assets to try and flip at some later date.

Maybe those teams could be in a 3 way but you still need a veteran player going to Philly. I'm not hearing any names clearly better than CJ.

 

[LayneStaley]

I’m starting to lean in the fuck Simmons direction. Everything about this kid screams malcontent.

 

[BBert]

Yup, this is exactly the place I see him meshing so well with Dame, as the screener/roll man with Dame initiating the action - and as a finisher / distributer once the defense collapses.

If you consider's Nurk's sub-par post play and how good he is helping the offense from the perimeter and cutting - and it actually helps Simmons by clearing the post when he is used as the roll man.

Also, Simmons pushing the ball up court would be amazing. Dame would feast without breaking a sweat.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Steph is partly so good because he runs off screens and Draymond just finds him. Simmons has much better vision than Dray so he would take Dame to the next level.

 

[Natebishop3]

Steph is partly so good because he runs off screens and Draymond just finds him. Simmons has much better vision than Dray so he would take Dame to the next level.

I don’t see Dame as that guy. He’s not the “run all around the floor to get open” kind of guy.

 

[mook]

I don’t see Dame as that guy. He’s not the “run all around the floor to get open” kind of guy.

Yep. Dame is the best pick and roll guard in the league. He's never played off ball at any level.

That said, I love the idea of a Dame/Simmons pick and roll. On some of those rolls Simmons will kick it right back out to Dame which would be awesome.

My biggest question is if Simmons and Nurk can coexist. Nurk will have to play more of a Brook Lopez kind of role as a stretch 5, which he hasn't done much in his career. I'm not certain he'll be as happy in that role, as he'll get fewer touches and be just a spot up shooter instead of a key part of the offense.

Nurk is used to being the guy setting the picks, and he may bristle a lot about that. When Nurk is unhappy, everybody tends to know it. If he has a few games where he misses his threes, I could easily see him blaming the coach for playing him out of position. Hopefully we're winning a lot and our defense is so good that it isn't an issue, but it would be a concern.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I’m starting to lean in the fuck Simmons direction. Everything about this kid screams malcontent.

I've been there for a couple weeks now.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

So Morey has not traded Simmons yet.

Am i right that he just let his trade exception expire?

 

[JoshuaHall]

And this.... if Neil does this, I would build a statue for him.

https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/43...-supes/page/101/?tab=comments#comment-1122237

Posted September 2 (edited)
Based on my conservation today, Ben Simmons will be traded to the Portland Trailblazers in December for Norm Powell and RoCo.

I would much prefer Simmons for CJ than for Norm and RoCo.

Honestly don’t think I do it for Norm and Roco.

 

[JoshuaHall]

Man! Nice find. You are like the CIA for the NBA. ON your listening post i see.

Often we don’t agree, but Illmatic is a great poster with fantastic info.
I find myself replying to them quite a bit. Probably to their dissatisfaction but eh.

 

[JoshuaHall]

It's based on AFTER the signing is completed. Portland would be over the cap at that point. Jan 15 would be the day.

I wouldn't mind this trade though:
View attachment 40608

I would launch my phone into the moon if this trade happened. I would be so, so mad.

Thybulle sucks.

 

[Cugel]

I know he seems like a piece of work, but this roster needs a second all-star grade player to be competitive. No, I don't know what Billups would do with him to make him fit. But Simmons has extraordinary talents.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I know he seems like a piece of work, but this roster needs a second all-star grade player to be competitive. No, I don't know what Billups would do with him to make him fit. But Simmons has extraordinary talents.

Thing is i don't think he's an All Star in the West. Simple as that.

 

[Freshtown]

Listening to Bill Simmons and they’re saying:

• No need to rush
• Morey should hold out
• Simmons is a star and they should theoretically be able to get Fox or SGA or Murray + all young SA players

it’s a weird dichotomy where half the talking heads are thinking about his value as low and debating cj/brogdon/sexton and the other half are acting as if he’s this big star that shouldn’t be moved for anything less than fox.

 

[blazerkor]

Listening to Bill Simmons and they’re saying:

• No need to rush
• Morey should hold out
• Simmons is a star and they should theoretically be able to get Fox or SGA or Murray + all young SA players

it’s a weird dichotomy where half the talking heads are thinking about his value as low and debating cj/brogdon/sexton and the other half are acting as if he’s this big star that shouldn’t be moved for anything less than fox.

I listened to Bill Simmons talk about it yesterday with two other guys and they all felt asking for SGA was too much.

De'Aaron Fox is young but he scores through penetration. He's a 32% three point shooter and a 71% free throw shooter. All of the young SA players don't make Philly better right away either. So I don't see any package besides SGA being better than getting CJ. Brogdon is the next best thing for that team but he's not the fit that CJ would be. All of that said because Neil is such a self assured dumbass, I don't know if CJ is even available for Ben Simmons.

The fact is that Morey gets another 19 days to act tough about this situation and then Ben Simmons further tanks his trade value by sitting out training camp and after that he'll reportedly take the hit to the bank account and sit out games. So if Morey can get his ego out of the way he'll make something happen in the next couple of weeks or so. If Neil is smart that deal will be for CJ and likely only would have to be for CJ and maybe a future pick that would mean taking the protection off this upcoming Chicago pick.

 

[Idog1976]

Listening to Bill Simmons and they’re saying:

• No need to rush
• Morey should hold out
• Simmons is a star and they should theoretically be able to get Fox or SGA or Murray + all young SA players

it’s a weird dichotomy where half the talking heads are thinking about his value as low and debating cj/brogdon/sexton and the other half are acting as if he’s this big star that shouldn’t be moved for anything less than fox.

Is this the same Bill Simmons who started drinking from a flask when Danny Ainge pulled off one of the biggest fleecing's in NBA history and proceeded to complain about it the entire draft while getting visibly drunk? Yeah, GTFO Bill.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

Listening to Bill Simmons and they’re saying:

• No need to rush
• Morey should hold out
• Simmons is a star and they should theoretically be able to get Fox or SGA or Murray + all young SA players

it’s a weird dichotomy where half the talking heads are thinking about his value as low and debating cj/brogdon/sexton and the other half are acting as if he’s this big star that shouldn’t be moved for anything less than fox.

I think BonesJones hit it on the nose - people who love Simmons are in love with the player they think he can be, not the player he is.

 

[Natebishop3]

Is this the same Bill Simmons who started drinking from a flask when Danny Ainge pulled off one of the biggest fleecing's in NBA history and proceeded to complain about it the entire draft while getting visibly drunk? Yeah, GTFO Bill.

Yeah Bill is another provocateur. It's not his job to say smart shit. It's his job to stir up controversy.

 

[Idog1976]

I think BonesJones hit it on the nose - people who love Simmons are in love with the player they think he can be, not the player he is.

Nope. I'm in love with the player he is right now. The guy he could be? Well, on our team with Dame that's a Championship. The player he is puts us in the top 4 in the West and with a few lucky breaks WCF or even the Finals. Maybe ask us directly, instead of listening to other people's opinions?

I'm sure Ben can get his head straight. I'm quite sure Ben can become a 70% FT shooter. The former however is the only one that matters in my calculus on the CJ for Simmons trade. His shooting can stay where it is and he would still be a HUGE upgrade for the team. If he gets his FT% up and learns to shoot the 3? He'd be an MVP caliber player. CJ, might be an All-Star in the East, but likely never All-NBA, let alone MVP caliber. I also think Simmons learning to shoot is far, FAR more likely than CJ becoming a great defender.

 

[Freshtown]

Something else philly fans are worried about: if they trade for CJ, is their starting backcourt Cj and curry, who would be horrible defensively? CJ and Maxey, which would be slightly better but still bad? That’s one of the things that I think may trip up morey and make him not want CJ.

 

[andalusian]

I think BonesJones hit it on the nose - people who love Simmons are in love with the player they think he can be, not the player he is.

What he is is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league and a guy whose career AST% of 34.5 (after the worst year of his in this stat) is only 0.1 behind Dame's last year AST% (best of Dame's career). His career AST% is almost 4 points higher than Dame's career AST%. Heck, his last year's AST% (worst of his career, as we said) is higher than Dame's career AST%.

He is an elite talent and even if all you make of him is just a defender and secondary PG / distributer - you are very likely to improve this team considerably. (Heck, the team will finally have someone that can actually give some trouble when guarding Lebron, Kawahi and Durant - which it currently does not realistically have).

Now, when you think about his potential fit when he is not the primary PG but the secondary, can really be moved to his role of a roll-man with the best pick-and-roll handler in the league and better shooting around him than in Philly... yes, it could be a devastating combination if his role better fits his talents (which it does not in Philly).

 

[Idog1976]

What he is is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league and a guy whose career AST% of 34.5 (after the worst year of his in this stat) is only 0.1 behind Dame's last year AST% (best of Dame's career). His career AST% is almost 4 points higher than Dame's career AST%. Heck, his last year's AST% (worst of his career, as we said) is higher than Dame's career AST%.

He is an elite talent and even if all you make of him is just a defender and secondary PG / distributer - you are very likely to improve this team considerably. (Heck, the team will finally have someone that can actually give some trouble when guarding Lebron, Kawahi and Durant - which it currently does not realistically have).

Now, when you think about his potential fit when he is not the primary PG but the secondary, can really be moved to his role of a roll-man with the best pick-and-roll handler in the league and better shooting around him than in Philly... yes, it could be a devastating combination if his role better fits his talents (which it does not in Philly).

Very well said and explained. I still don't understand why people don't see it. I feel like many people have to see something before they understand it. Very few are able to extrapolate as to what things would look like if they haven't seen it before. We really have no idea what Simmons is like outside of the Sixers context, but I think you can make some educated prognostications, which is exactly what you have done here. The Dame-Simmons pick and roll would be among the most devastating combos in the league in my opinion.

 

[Natebishop3]

Something else philly fans are worried about: if they trade for CJ, is their starting backcourt Cj and curry, who would be horrible defensively? CJ and Maxey, which would be slightly better but still bad? That’s one of the things that I think may trip up morey and make him not want CJ.

Curry is not starter quality. I'm not sure why he thinks he is. The guy is a Steve Kerr. He's not a point guard. He's not big enough or really talented enough to be a starting shooting guard. He worked with Simmons because he can guard point guards without needing to worry about handling the ball. He's a sixth man.