Trade Ben Simmons poll

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What's the most you would give up for Ben Simmons?

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Buffalo Custard said:
I think BonesJones hit it on the nose - people who love Simmons are in love with the player they think he can be, not the player he is.
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sorry, I think that's bullshit

I think people are counting on Simmons being the player he was for his first 300 NBA games rather than his last 5 games. And people are counting on Dame, as a leader and a teammate, to help Simmons over a hump. Billups is there too
 
wizenheimer said:
sorry, I think that's bullshit

I think people are counting on Simmons being the player he was for his first 300 NBA games rather than his last 5 games. And people are counting on Dame, as a leader and a teammate, to help Simmons over a hump. Billups is there too
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I like the player that he is, but I'm also hopeful for the player that he could be.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I like the player that he is, but I'm also hopeful for the player that he could be.
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Funny what you learn when you actually ask with curiosity first-hand sources, rather than rely on second-hand opinions.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
I think BonesJones hit it on the nose - people who love Simmons are in love with the player they think he can be, not the player he is.
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Nope. Think he would be very good here with Dame as who he has been for most of his career and don't overreact to a couple of his most recent games. I think it is possible be even better with Dame just from a leadership, talent and style standpoint, but adding his elite defense and passing ability, versatility and ability to attack the basket are all things this team needs.
 
Looks like we have a near consensus among the Pro-Simmons faction and that consensus is that opinion was dead wrong.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I like the player that he is, but I'm also hopeful for the player that he could be.
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I guess...I've just been beat down so often in the young player expectations game, I have a hard time getting too enthused about "potential"

I mean, look at the last 16 or 17 years of the results of waiting on potential...

the disappointments:

Sebastian Telfaire
Travis Outlaw
Martell Webster
Jarret Jack
Sergio Rodriguez
Channing Frye
Josh McRoberts
Rudy Fernandez
Greg Oden
Jerryd Bayless
Luke Babbitt
Elliot Williams
Victor Claver
Joel Freeland
Thomas Robinson
Allan Crabbe
Meyers Leonard
Mo Harkless
Noah Vonleh
Jake Layman
Zach Collins

the wins:

Brandon Roy (sort of)
Lamarcus Aldridge
Wesley Matthews
Nicolas Batum
Dame
CJ
Trent

compounding the issue is seeing ex-blazers like Will Barton and Pat Connaughton reaching most of their potential on other teams. I don't know...maybe a 25% winning percentage betting on potential is about average. Seems low though. To be fair, some of those guys I counted as disappointment by the end of their first seasons as Blazers, like Telfaire, Babbitt, TRob, and Meyers. And my god the number of people suckered by Martell's supposed potential was legion
 
Freshtown said:
Something else philly fans are worried about: if they trade for CJ, is their starting backcourt Cj and curry, who would be horrible defensively? CJ and Maxey, which would be slightly better but still bad? That’s one of the things that I think may trip up morey and make him not want CJ.
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I think they'd roll with CJ as a point guard. Defense with this lineup would be very good:

CJ/Green/Thybulle/Harris/Embid
 
wizenheimer said:
I guess...I've just been beat down so often in the young player expectations game, I have a hard time getting too enthused about "potential"

I mean, look at the last 16 or 17 years of the results of waiting on potential...

the disappointments:

Sebastian Telfaire
Travis Outlaw
Martell Webster
Jarret Jack
Sergio Rodriguez
Channing Frye
Josh McRoberts
Rudy Fernandez
Greg Oden
Jerryd Bayless
Luke Babbitt
Elliot Williams
Victor Claver
Joel Freeland
Thomas Robinson
Allan Crabbe
Meyers Leonard
Mo Harkless
Noah Vonleh
Jake Layman
Zach Collins

the wins:

Brandon Roy (sort of)
Lamarcus Aldridge
Wesley Matthews
Nicolas Batum
Dame
CJ
Trent

compounding the issue is seeing ex-blazers like Will Barton and Pat Connaughton reaching most of their potential on other teams. I don't know...maybe a 25% winning percentage betting on potential is about average. Seems low though. To be fair, some of those guys I counted as disappointment by the end of their first seasons as Blazers, like Telfaire, Babbitt, TRob, and Meyers. And my god the number of people suckered by Martell's supposed potential was legion
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Oden and maybe LaMarcus are the only players with pre NBA potential close to the level of Simmons.

Most of that list is long shot gambles that predictably didn't work out nor were expected to.

Simmons has already been a multi time all star.... so I don't see how Elliot Williams can be any sort of comparison.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Got any notes from it? I won't be able to listen until later.
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can't do a full one today, finally have some work, but TL;DR:

- Portland is not going to trade Dame, especially not for Ben.
- Some noise within the Portland camp about Ben's fit here because of his desire to remain a PG.
- Others in the org think Dame would welcome playing off the ball for longer, especially with an elite shot creator like Simmons.
- With everything that he brings defensively and the versatility he offers, a CJ for Ben deal would be a no-brainer.
- Larry Nance was a great pickup and offers a lot as a backup 4 and third string 5 in case Zeller/Nurk get hurt.
 
wizenheimer said:
I guess...I've just been beat down so often in the young player expectations game, I have a hard time getting too enthused about "potential"

I mean, look at the last 16 or 17 years of the results of waiting on potential...

the disappointments:

Sebastian Telfaire
Travis Outlaw
Martell Webster
Jarret Jack
Sergio Rodriguez
Channing Frye
Josh McRoberts
Rudy Fernandez
Greg Oden
Jerryd Bayless
Luke Babbitt
Elliot Williams
Victor Claver
Joel Freeland
Thomas Robinson
Allan Crabbe
Meyers Leonard
Mo Harkless
Noah Vonleh
Jake Layman
Zach Collins

the wins:

Brandon Roy (sort of)
Lamarcus Aldridge
Wesley Matthews
Nicolas Batum
Dame
CJ
Trent

compounding the issue is seeing ex-blazers like Will Barton and Pat Connaughton reaching most of their potential on other teams. I don't know...maybe a 25% winning percentage betting on potential is about average. Seems low though. To be fair, some of those guys I counted as disappointment by the end of their first seasons as Blazers, like Telfaire, Babbitt, TRob, and Meyers. And my god the number of people suckered by Martell's supposed potential was legion
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Another way I would look at this is top10 picks;

Disappointments;
Webster
Oden
Collins

Wins:
Roy
Aldridge
Dame
CJ

Seems like a good hit percentage to me. Many NBA teams spend a decade getting top 10 picks with much less to show for it.

The others on your list are late picks which normally don't become starters, or guys that already failed on other teams and were long shots to realize starter potential.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Oden and maybe LaMarcus are the only players with pre NBA potential close to the level of Simmons.

Most of that list is long shot gambles that predictably didn't work out nor were expected to.

Simmons has already been a multi time all star.... so I don't see how Elliot Williams can be any sort of comparison.
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I wasn't talking about Simmons at all

was talking about how seldom potential pans out
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Another way I would look at this is top10 picks;

Disappointments;
Webster
Oden
Collins

Wins:
Roy
Aldridge
Dame
CJ

Seems like a good hit percentage to me. Many NBA teams spend a decade getting top 10 picks with much less to show for it.

The others on your list are late picks which normally don't become starters, or guys that already failed on other teams and were long shots to realize starter potential.
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again, I was remembering the chatter about the potential of those players during their first year or two

and I think your top-10 line is incredibly arbitrary, cherry picks in favor of Portland, and is incomplete

Martell Webster was essentially a 3rd pick
Telfaire was a 13th pick
Jerryd Bayless was an 11th pick
Luke Babbitt was a 16th pick
Meyers Leonard was an 11th pick
 
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Lol love Shaq and them roasting Simmons because is true. Get over it you little group of Simons fan boys, Simmons isn’t coming to Portland and we should all be thankful!
 
I love Shaq sitting on his high horse telling others to focus/play hard and not be involved with distractions outside of hoops as if those weren't the exact same things he was legitimately & consistently criticized for. Think Shaq would have been better if he hadn't spent most of his career 50+lbs overweight? How about if he ever committed to learning proper shooting mechanics so he could make a FT? Would Simmons making movies and rap albums be considered distractions? An in shape & focused Shaq had the size & talent to completely eclipse MJ's career and be considered the hands down GOAT. Outstanding hypocrisy from the Big Underachiever.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
I love Shaq sitting on his high horse telling others to focus/play hard and not be involved with distractions outside of hoops as if those weren't the exact same things he was legitimately & consistently criticized for. Think Shaq would have been better if he hadn't spent most of his career 50+lbs overweight? How about if he ever committed to learning proper shooting mechanics so he could make a FT? Would Simmons making movies and rap albums be considered distractions? An in shape & focused Shaq had the size & talent to completely eclipse MJ's career and be considered the hands down GOAT. Outstanding hypocrisy from the Big Underachiever.

STOMP
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But you see, Shaq made sure never to play in a "hard-working" town. Orlando, LA, Miami... all party towns!
 
STOMP said:
I love Shaq sitting on his high horse telling others to focus/play hard and not be involved with distractions outside of hoops as if those weren't the exact same things he was legitimately & consistently criticized for. Think Shaq would have been better if he hadn't spent most of his career 50+lbs overweight? How about if he ever committed to learning proper shooting mechanics so he could make a FT? Would Simmons making movies and rap albums be considered distractions? An in shape & focused Shaq had the size & talent to completely eclipse MJ's career and be considered the hands down GOAT. Outstanding hypocrisy from the Big Underachiever.

STOMP
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Hahahaha! Spot on, man. Shaq was born at the perfect time with the absolute most perfect NBA center body, and wound up on a team with an amazingly talented teammate in Kobe and an all-time-great coach.

And he only made it work for three years because of his ego and his lack of focus and his inability to put down a fork.

Hell, if he'd just committed to shooting underhand free throws and did nothing else, he'd probably have a couple more rings.
 
wizenheimer said:
again, I was remembering the chatter about the potential of those players during their first year or two

and I think your top-10 line is incredibly arbitrary, cherry picks in favor of Portland, and is incomplete

Martell Webster was essentially a 3rd pick
Telfaire was a 13th pick
Jerryd Bayless was an 11th pick
Luke Babbitt was a 16th pick
Meyers Leonard was an 11th pick
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Ben Simmons was the 1st pick. He already is a better player at age 25 than any of those guys you list were projected to likely be when we drafted them.

You don't have to look into a crystal ball to try to imagine what he might turn into. He's already really good. He's just in a bad situation for his skills and mindset.

There's always some speculation that a guy who can't shoot might learn to shoot. Jason Kidd became a fantastic marksman in the second half of his career. But with Simmons that's really gravy. Most of his upside is just using him in a way that he's meant to be used.

There's an old saying that if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, you'll believe it's stupid. That's Ben Simmons in Philly.
 
STOMP said:
I love Shaq sitting on his high horse telling others to focus/play hard and not be involved with distractions outside of hoops as if those weren't the exact same things he was legitimately & consistently criticized for. Think Shaq would have been better if he hadn't spent most of his career 50+lbs overweight? How about if he ever committed to learning proper shooting mechanics so he could make a FT? Would Simmons making movies and rap albums be considered distractions? An in shape & focused Shaq had the size & talent to completely eclipse MJ's career and be considered the hands down GOAT. Outstanding hypocrisy from the Big Underachiever.

STOMP
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It is often overlooked how nimble Shaq was for his size, thats what made him so dominant. When he was 35 and lost his quickness he was just a huge strong guy and basically irrelevant.

If guys like Shaq, or Drexler, put in the effort to train and be the best as MJ, Durant, Dame have done, they would've been top 5 players all time.
 
mook said:
Ben Simmons was the 1st pick. He already is a better player at age 25 than any of those guys you list were projected to likely be when we drafted them.

You don't have to look into a crystal ball to try to imagine what he might turn into. He's already really good. He's just in a bad situation for his skills and mindset.

There's always some speculation that a guy who can't shoot might learn to shoot. Jason Kidd became a fantastic marksman in the second half of his career. But with Simmons that's really gravy. Most of his upside is just using him in a way that he's meant to be used.

There's an old saying that if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, you'll believe it's stupid. That's Ben Simmons in Philly.
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I know it's a Simmons thread, but in those 2 posts, I wasn't talking about Simmons, at all. Sorry for the sidetrack. Was just talking about the value of potential and how much more often it disappoints than delivers.

as far as Simmons, I'm in favor of Portland trading for him without even accounting for any of his 'potential' because the level of production he has already established, with all his warts, is much better talent than what the Blazers can realistically hope to find over the next couple of years anywhere else
 
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