Trade Ben Simmons poll (1 Viewer)

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What's the most you would give up for Ben Simmons?

  • Total voters
    145
blazerkor said:
I would trade CJ, RoCo and a pick for Simmons and Thybulle or Maxey... which has to be the trade being discussed if Stephen A. isn't just talking out of his ass.
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Given what I've seen/heard from Stephen A - I'd say this is a high probability.
I mean there IS a reason he goes by 'Stephen A..'
 
Buffalo Custard said:
Interesting. I had the exact opposite reaction. Nurk is injury prone, you know how I feel about Simmons (and let me again say it has nada to do with the Hawks' series) and draft picks always carry an element of risk. By contrast, Philly gets a dependable scorer and a prospect. Portland gets some decent backcourt depth and a guy who could mesh with Dame to become the best center in the WC.

To put it another way, IMHO this is a low risk/significant reward deal for both Philly and Portland. The TWolves are the ones who are taking a gamble.
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I guess I'm far more interested in shoring up our defense, than trying to improve on our nearly League Best offense. Losing Nurk would be absolutely brutal to our defense.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
That is an interesting proposal.

I can see why Portland and Philly do it - not sure on TWolves. Do they see Simmons as at least close to KAT in value? In that case, 2 FRPs and Nurk is a nice haul. If they see KAT as clearly better than Simmons, or they simply don't want to risk repeating the Butler situation, they say no.
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Also thinking of the Klutch connections. Ben/Nurk/Edwards all repped by Rich Paul.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
If we give up 2 firsts, that means (effectively) we've given up FIVE firsts for Simmons and Nance (four for Simmons alone).
Too high.
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It’s my upper limit, but I see it as Five firsts for Simmons AND we keep Lillard. Well worth it for that. Its a super high risk big balls move though hence why I want to cut it down a lot, especially distant 1sts.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
Interesting. I had the exact opposite reaction. Nurk is injury prone, you know how I feel about Simmons (and let me again say it has nada to do with the Hawks' series) and draft picks always carry an element of risk. By contrast, Philly gets a dependable scorer and a prospect. Portland gets some decent backcourt depth and a guy who could mesh with Dame to become the best center in the WC.

To put it another way, IMHO this is a low risk/significant reward deal for both Philly and Portland. The TWolves are the ones who are taking a gamble.
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I’m genuinely curious, it it wasn’t the ATL series, what is it?
 
Ryen Russillo:

"CJ has been on available for Philly for a long time now. How big of a gap is there in their value? CJ has been pretty healthy even if he just turned 30. He's a great shooter, raw stats are good but advanced metrics are good and getting better but not great. Defensively, you might have to worry about him and Curry in the backcourt, but his skills of shooting/ball handling/play-making is something they've not had around Embiid. I don't think it's a terrible deal. Maybe that's what it comes down to to say this what makes the most sense. I don't know ALL that has been talked about... but whenever I think about all these pieces and what I HAVE heard that is rumored, I don't see any better fit than CJ McCollum."
 
B-Roy said:
Minnesota's entire interest in Simmons is because of his fit with KAT, I don't see any reason they would trade KAT in a deal to get Simmons. Especially not to pair him with Nurkic.
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As of today all of the Minnesota's "interests" have changed. They just fired their Olshey equivalent both President/GM. So who knows if they even want Simmons, if they're looking to trade KAT. Who knows what their deal is?
 
blazerkor said:
As of today all of the Minnesota's "interests" have changed. They just fired their Olshey equivalent both President/GM. So who knows if they even want Simmons, if they're looking to trade KAT. Who knows what their deal is?
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My idea was based on a premise of KAT wanting out. Obviously, Minny won't deal him unless he wants out as he's their most valuable piece.

Ben and D'Angelo Russell played on the same HS team also and have a longer history than Towns/Ben.
 
illmatic99 said:
My idea was based on a premise of KAT wanting out. Obviously, Minny won't deal him unless he wants out as he's their most valuable piece.

Ben and D'Angelo Russell played on the same HS team also and have a longer history than Towns/Ben.
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Oh, I think with the "wtf" tweet there's a great chance that Towns will want out. I was just saying that any previous rumors out of Minny are now off the table. If we can turn CJ, Nurk and a pick into KAT.

Dame, Norm, RoCo, Nance, KAT, Ant, Snell, Nas and Zeller... holy shit that starting lineup would kill the rest of the league. Also KAT's defense is underrated his advanced metrics are highly affected by the lack of defensive players that have been around him.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Because if Simmons keeps sitting out, the deals aren't going to get better. Everyone knows that Philly has to trade him. They HAVE to. So whether that's not or in two months, the deal doesn't change.
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not really, teams right now all feel good about themselves and are hoping a draft pick or youngster evolves/pop's.
There have been deals proposed but I bet they are mediocre deals not involving an all star. Once the season starts going and there are injuries or teams and teams are a bit more desperate proposals will get better.
Everyone knows Ben's strengths and weakness so his market value doesn't go down once the season takes off.
 
Hoopguru said:
not really, teams right now all feel good about themselves and are hoping a draft pick or youngster evolves/pop's.
There have been deals proposed but I bet they are mediocre deals not involving an all star. Once the season starts going and there are injuries or teams and teams are a bit more desperate proposals will get better.
Everyone knows Ben's strengths and weakness so his market value doesn't go down once the season takes off.
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Morey, is that you? There's no fucking way that Morey gains leverage with Simmons sitting. I hear you that theoretically everyone knows the player Ben is but you are discounting how negotiations work. If Simmons is sitting out regular season games his value tanks even more because then the Sixers really have no recourse but to trade him and the last image of him playing is bad... forget what's going on with other teams. I hardly think a significant injury on another team adds value to Simmons unless you think the Sixers are taking back an injured player or a package of prospects and picks. It definitely doesn't logically net them an all star at that point.
 
Predator said:
Also much better players whose value isn’t going to fluctuate drastically such as Ben Simmons. They are clear #1 or #1b players which pretty much anyone wants. Many teams question the fit and attitude of Simmons (rightfully or not) and he has a “trade” list supposedly.

Second point, I would argue this makes them in a worse situation. They’ve got 35mm just sitting on the bench and he’s not good enough to retain his value “no matter what.” IF he was playing, maybe, because he could show improved shooting or whatever. Harden was going to get a coup no matter what. If they hang on to him until the deadline, they’re pretty much forced to take whatever is offered or go a year without Simmons…

We have already seen the 76ers go from Harden (apparently refused to include Simmons and Maxey I believe) to IND supposed offer to now JOHN WALL.

We will see what they get for him. I’ve got a feeling it’s not going to be close to the 6 assets or whatever they want. If they trade him for much less that’s trading him for “anything” by the way, since their asking price isn’t being met.

the alternative to “not trading him for anything” is to let him possibly sit out an entire year *worst* case scenario and trade him that off season if you can. You think they’re willing to do that? Unless you do they’re gonna trade him for anything they can. He takes up too much salary space for them to be competitive (if not playing.)
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Yes, I do think they would hold him an entire year if it made sense.

If Philly makes a bad trade, while it might give them more value than Simmons sitting out right now it will basically guarantee they can't contend for a title. Morey is a title or bust GM.

I think Morey would rather hold on to Ben with the idea his trade value could go up or another all star will be available.

Morey and Philly owners aren't emotional in the moment like the Cleveland, Minny, New Orleans owners. They will take a step back now, even for many months, to take a bigger step forward later if that looks like the better avenue to a title.
 
I don't want us to trade for Ben Simmons but it seems inevitable. The sixers were delirious when they wanted Dame, they don't find a better option than CJ
 
Idog1976 said:
I’m genuinely curious, it it wasn’t the ATL series, what is it?
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Doc Rivers was Simmon's biggest booster. He made one critical remark, which wasn't even that severe, and Simmons had a complete meltdown. How is he going to react the first time a rookie head coach says something he doesn't like? I also question if his bitter dislike of Embiid was really caused by one press conference. I can't help but suspect he was already jealous and resentful of Embiid being the number one guy on the team.

In general, I think his conduct has been thin-skinned and unprofessional. Yes, Embiid was out of line - but that hardly explains the way he turned on the entire team over-night! I have no patience with players who want/need their ego constantly stroked.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But when you combine those concerns with the high acquisition costs - I just don't see it.
 
blazerkor said:
Morey, is that you? There's no fucking way that Morey gains leverage with Simmons sitting. I hear you that theoretically everyone knows the player Ben is but you are discounting how negotiations work. If Simmons is sitting out regular season games his value tanks even more because then the Sixers really have no recourse but to trade him and the last image of him playing is bad... forget what's going on with other teams. I hardly think a significant injury on another team adds value to Simmons unless you think the Sixers are taking back an injured player or a package of prospects and picks. It definitely doesn't logically net them an all star at that point.
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So you think Morey thinks the best deal he can get is now versus waiting some? Why?
How many Super Stars w/4 years left, that demand trades, are traded right before season starts? not many
 
Buffalo Custard said:
Doc Rivers was Simmon's biggest booster. He made one critical remark, which wasn't even that severe, and Simmons had a complete meltdown. How is he going to react the first time a rookie head coach says something he doesn't like? I also question if his bitter dislike of Embiid was really caused by one press conference. I can't help but suspect he was already jealous and resentful of Embiid being the number one guy on the team.

In general, I think his conduct has been thin-skinned and unprofessional. Yes, Embiid was out of line - but that hardly explains the way he turned on the entire team over-night! I have no patience with players who want/need their ego constantly stroked.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But when you combine those concerns with the high acquisition costs - I just don't see it.
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You're isolating one thing. If Doc has been riding Simmons all season, as he's known to do with players, and says that, then there's a different context. Add to that the rumors about Simmons being unhappy with how he's being utilized. Then take into consideration that before he ever voiced an opinion about getting traded the Sixers were rumored to be trying to trade him for the second straight off season. You've already talked about Ben's relationship with the guy the team obviously values over him. There's a lot going on and I don't think it takes a thin skinned player to want to get away from that, especially one being managed by Klutch.
 
Idog1976 said:
I guess I'm far more interested in shoring up our defense, than trying to improve on our nearly League Best offense. Losing Nurk would be absolutely brutal to our defense.
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Actually, losing RoCo in a trade would hurt our defense more than losing Nurk. His injury history is pushing him from "building block" to "whatever you get is gravy" status. RoCo is more durable/reliable.
 
Hoopguru said:
So you think Morey thinks the best deal he can get is now versus waiting some? Why?
How many Super Stars w/4 years left, that demand trades, are traded right before season starts? not many
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No, Morey obviously thinks he can get the same if not better value later but he also seems to think that Simmons will cave and play. Harden's value didn't hold up, it went down and he was playing. The fact is a GM should want to get in front of these situations and Morey just keeps getting further and further behind.

The question of why his value will go down is pretty simple. A player not playing is worth nothing, the Sixers want to win now, so their value for a win now player willing to play for them goes up with every loss.
 
Well there might be one good thing to happen if Simmons gets traded to Portland.
I don't think we will hear any more about Lillard wanting out for the next couple years.
If you actually make a decent trade and try to improve what else can you do?
Other than just ask to go to the Nets or something?
 
blazerkor said:
No, Morey obviously thinks he can get the same if not better value later but he also seems to think that Simmons will cave and play. Harden's value didn't hold up, it went down and he was playing. The fact is a GM should want to get in front of these situations and Morey just keeps getting further and further behind.

The question of why his value will go down is pretty simple. A player not playing is worth nothing, the Sixers want to win now, so their value for a win now player willing to play for them goes up with every loss.
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This is not the time that teams decide to blow things up and go in different directions and when that happens many more trade scenarios and all stars can be made available.
It not like if Ben doesn't play early on Philly is all of a sudden not a contender they could stand pat a while.
Either one of us could be right or wrong.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I kinda wonder if maybe Morey is waiting for Simmons to actually hold out so he can trade him for a mediocre deal. He comes out looking like the good guy.
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Call it like it's a bluff even though he knows it's not and then have a different standard for what a good deal looks like... that's kind of diabolical.
 
blazerkor said:
Oh, I think with the "wtf" tweet there's a great chance that Towns will want out. I was just saying that any previous rumors out of Minny are now off the table. If we can turn CJ, Nurk and a pick into KAT.

Dame, Norm, RoCo, Nance, KAT, Ant, Snell, Nas and Zeller... holy shit that starting lineup would kill the rest of the league. Also KAT's defense is underrated his advanced metrics are highly affected by the lack of defensive players that have been around him.
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If it's true that Kat's defense isn't absolutely atrocious, then I'm a lot more interested.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
Doc Rivers was Simmon's biggest booster. He made one critical remark, which wasn't even that severe, and Simmons had a complete meltdown. How is he going to react the first time a rookie head coach says something he doesn't like? I also question if his bitter dislike of Embiid was really caused by one press conference. I can't help but suspect he was already jealous and resentful of Embiid being the number one guy on the team.

In general, I think his conduct has been thin-skinned and unprofessional. Yes, Embiid was out of line - but that hardly explains the way he turned on the entire team over-night! I have no patience with players who want/need their ego constantly stroked.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But when you combine those concerns with the high acquisition costs - I just don't see it.
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As Blazerkor says above it wasn't just one thing though was it? It was Doc, Embiid, Sixers fans and Sixers media relentlessly for months. Also shopping him twice. Do you see blazer's fans, Dame, Billups, and local media treating Simmons that way? I sure don't given the kid gloves treatment CJ has gotten for years now and especially with his awful play vs. Denver and catastrophic mental mistake. It's an Apples to Oranges comparison on the court and off it when you compare Portland to Philadelphia. It's not close on any relevant comparative metric.
 
andalusian said:
I would disagree with that. He specifically said, when he got to Philly that it was time to designate who is the alpha in the team and it is Embiid - and the team most certainly featured Embiid a lot more than Simmons once he got there.
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Usage rates for both have been pretty much the same as they had been before Rivers got there (Embiid around 30-35%, Simmons at 20-22%). I don't think there was any quantifiable change in the way the players were featured. But Doc throwing him under the bus the moment they lost undid all the backing he gave Ben through the season when critics were begging him to shoot more. It made Doc's prior support seem disingenuous, which it completely was.

All that said, even as a huge supporter of #ben2pdx i can admit that Simmons has a very thin skin. All that coddling he has received since he was in HS has made him very averse to even the slightest bit of criticism. Portland, and the soccer moms he would encounter here would be perfect in a way.
 
illmatic99 said:
Usage rates for both have been pretty much the same as they had been before Rivers got there (Embiid around 30-35%, Simmons at 20-22%). I don't think there was any quantifiable change in the way the players were featured.
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Not talking about usage rate, talking about role:

“Last year, no one knew their roles," Embiid said to ESPN’s Ramona Shelburne. "People were just doing whatever they wanted. And I'm not the type of guy to come in and just jack up shots."

Head coach Doc Rivers aimed to add clarity. He told Shelburne that he emphasized the Sixers would be “playing through Joel,” and Ben Simmons was the team’s “facilitator.”

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/sixers-joel-embiid-doc-rivers-2021-nba-mvp

In other words, Embiid is the featured player, Ben's job is to set the table for him.

FWIW, Rivers said the same thing on the "All the smoke" pod that featured him.

So, it clear that there was a clear change in role under Doc. If you after that throw him under the bus for being the facilitator that you set him up to be... well, it's on you, frankly.
 
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