Trade Ben Simmons poll (2 Viewers)

[KSF-ERIC]

This is not the time that teams decide to blow things up and go in different directions and when that happens many more trade scenarios and all stars can be made available.
It not like if Ben doesn't play early on Philly is all of a sudden not a contender they could stand pat a while.
Either one of us could be right or wrong.

Philly is absolutely not a contender without Simmons. Did you see the 2020 playoffs?

 

[illmatic99]

Not talking about usage rate, talking about role:

“Last year, no one knew their roles," Embiid said to ESPN’s Ramona Shelburne. "People were just doing whatever they wanted. And I'm not the type of guy to come in and just jack up shots."

Head coach Doc Rivers aimed to add clarity. He told Shelburne that he emphasized the Sixers would be “playing through Joel,” and Ben Simmons was the team’s “facilitator.”

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/sixers-joel-embiid-doc-rivers-2021-nba-mvp

In other words, Embiid is the featured player, Ben's job is to set the table for him.

FWIW, Rivers said the same thing on the "All the smoke" pod that featured him.

So, it clear that there was a clear change in role under Doc. If you after that throw him under the bus for being the facilitator that you set him up to be... well, it's on you, frankly.

Good find. My opinons of Doc misusing him are well documented in this thread. Was surprised usage rates didnt reflect it. Your article sure does tho

 

[calvin natt]

I still don’t want Simmons. I just can’t bring myself to get excited about it. He’s a douche.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Why does Philly have to trade him now? They wont unless they get a haul now and that isn't happening. Morey wont hesitate to wait a couple months or so while Ben doesn't play to gain a better deal. They'll still be good without him and more teams will get serious after the season starts.

I may be late to the table on this one, but alot to unpack in this thread since I last viewed, but my first thought to answer this question would be because if they dont, how good is a team without him and no return for him? If he sits, he could be touted as a spoiled brat and lower his value even more, lessening the return. Plus if he isn't playing and they haven't traded him, they are down thew whole season, one of their top two players. They drop out of contention in that scenario. Does Morey really want to gamble and toss another year down the drain?

I think Morey is a fool for waiting this long, and is a bigger fool if he continues to wait. The only way I backtrack on this is if Simmons doesn't sit. Then Morey was right not to trade him.

I don't think the return down the road will be any better than now, and certainty wont be of the value to offset the loss of the season by waiting.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

I still don’t want Simmons. I just can’t bring myself to get excited about it. He’s a douche.

That’s honestly my biggest concern (comes across as premodonna sp?). I still think I’d take him, his skills are incredible and huge upside I don’t have to like him. Honestly I think we need to go back to old school basketball to win championship and be an amazing defensive team. Simmons, Powel, Nurk, Nance is great start, thinking Billups brings some attitude to this team.

 

[Orion Bailey]

That’s honestly my biggest concern (comes across as premodonna sp?). I still think I’d take him, his skills are incredible and huge upside I don’t have to like him. Honestly I think we need to go back to old school basketball to win championship and be an amazing defensive team. Simmons, Powel, Nurk, Nance is great start, thinking Billups brings some attitude to this team.

Defense breeds offense. Easy offense.

You know, Ive thought the same, and though I still believe he is not as mentally strong as id like him to be and he curled up instead of pushed back, (could all be form strong advice from his agent and not his actual action, or nonaction), but after reading some of @illmatic99 posts and the continual bashing this guy has been getting and how it all went down....I just dont see how he can go back.

Lets put it another way. (this next part not for the faint of heart, as its disgusting, but has been a real scenario in man's history) Woud you respect a whipped boy more if he continued to come back to the whipper and beg for forgiveness? Or respect him more for getting the hell out of the situation?


I think Ive turned the corner on the situation. Ben mentally weak? Ye.s At least to an extent. He lost trust in himself in the playoffs, and then as soon as they were over his whole city just turned on him and tossed him in the pillory in their town square.


He is still young and you can learn shooting. Jordan wasn't a great outside shooter when he first started, and he worked at it. With Dame at his side, I think his confidence can come back and then all that's left is continually working on improving his shot, because he really does have almost every other basketball ability down to the 10nth percentile. Meaning he is elite at everything else.

Ive turned the corner and ready to give him a shot for CJ & multiple first, or CJ and nas and a first. If we get rid of CJ we need Ant to stay and take a leap and be our third quality guard, but Nas, even if he pops elsewhere, is expendible with Simmons on the roster along with Roco and Nance.

 

[BigGameDamian]

CJ, Nurkic, Simmons and a pick for Towns and Prince.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

ESPN the king of pulling shit out of there ass -- Stephen A Smith is the king of this I mean earlier in the summer he suggests KAT to the Blazers and that was more verbal vomit that he spewed on ESPN trying to get clicks etc.

He might be entertaining ... ok that might be me being nice but still his stuff should go right in the garbage where it belongs.

Next BS rumor we can rip apart inc in .......

 

[BBert]

Stephen A is saying Portland willing to part with CJ and roco and 1sts, wow

More Morey bullshit trying to prime the well?

 

[illmatic99]

 

[tester551]

Great stuff from Gilbert here.

 

[BonesJones]

No.

 

[sheed30]

lol, I still don't think this happens. Not only for the reason I don't think we should get Simmons, but his contract too. That is actually worse than CJ's.

Simmons was PG in Philly, here he wont be the primary PG here, his stats will suffer watch and see and everyone will soon realize he is over rated and a poor man's Draymond Green. Green actually takes 3's and hits them, and has in big games, Finals etc. They fact that he even shots the 3 when left open unlike Simmons, so I don't want anyone to compare stats and say he is a better than Draymond due to having better stats lol.

Also, even if we do trade C.J., Roco and etc for Simmons I can see the Neil haters coming out and saying that's too much for Simmons, we didn't have to give up Roco, Neil fucked this trade up yada yada lmao.

 

[blazerkor]

lol, I still don't think this happens. Not only for the reason I don't think we should get Simmons, but his contract too. That is actually worse than CJ's.

Simmons was PG in Philly, here he wont be the primary PG here, his stats will suffer watch and see and everyone will soon realize he is over rated and a poor man's Draymond Green. Green actually takes 3's and hits them, and has in big games, Finals etc. They fact that he even shots the 3 when left open unlike Simmons, so I don't want anyone to compare stats and say he is a better than Draymond due to having better stats lol.

Also, even if we do trade C.J., Roco and etc for Simmons I can see the Neil haters coming out and saying that's too much for Simmons, we didn't have to give up Roco, Neil fucked this trade up yada yada lmao.

If we trade CJ and RoCo we will get back a quality player in Maxey or Thybulle, so it won't be a two for one. You harped on Simmons' lack of shooting ability and praised Dray's which has become inefficient but you failed to mention the difference between the two in size and athletic ability. Simmons should be playing the 4 offensively like he did in college and being a point forward only when needed. The guy is an effective scorer and when his head is right he gets to the hoop at will. So people can talk about his lack of three point shooting all day long but he would be an elite offensive PF scoring inside, screening, rolling, slashing and passing and is one of the very best defenders in the league.

I would rather see us trade CJ, Nas and picks for Simmons but I think he's got such a high ceiling and this would be such an ideal situation for him that you trade CJ, RoCo and a pick for him and either Maxey or Thybulle if that's what it has to be.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

everyone will soon realize he is over rated and a poor man's Draymond Green.

What? He's better than Draymond in everything besides shooting. He is LeBron without a jump shot right now. I'd give CJ and Roco for him if need be without thinking twice.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

"Greek-the-freak-ing this dude"

 

[julius]

Not sure how Phoenix can trade for him, not only because they don't have a large salary they're going to trade, but also cap limits due to when they signed certain players. They'd have to decimate their bench to trade for him, and I'm not sure that any of the players they'd be trading would be better than someone like CJ.

But Gilbert is 100% right, the 76ers totally used him wrong.

 

[wizenheimer]

yeah, Arenas nailed the situation down pretty well. It was real convenient for Doc & Embiid & the 76er front office to make Simmons the scapegoat for their playoff exit. They trashed him, both his play and his character. And people forgive the 76ers for their actions while slamming Simmons for threatening to sit out the season

Arenas mentioned something about what Simmons can do at 6'11 and it got me thinking....about Giannis and Draymond. How does Simmons compare to those two:





obviously Giannis is going to win statistical comparisons with just about everybody; he's a unicorn. But I was a little surprised that Simmons was as close as he is. And Simmons generally crushes Green statistically and that's while Green has played on much better teams which in turn tends to give a statistical bump to numbers

the TS% is interesting. Obviously none of these three guys should be shooting a lot from the perimeter. They are best in the paint

* percent of shots taken at the rim (0-3'): Simmons 54.2%....Giannis 49.4%....Green 36.2%

* shooting % at the rim: Giannis 73.6%....Simmons 71.6%....Green 65.1%

* percent of shots taken 3'10': Simmons 33.2%....Giannis 16.4%....Green 14.1%

* shooting % at 3'10': Simmons 41.1%....Giannis 35.0%....Green 30.3%

* average shot distance: Green 13.1'....Giannis 8.7'....Simmons 4.4'

(doing a full career comparison won't account for trend-lines over, say, the last 3 seasons)

of course, this isn't a full picture of the situation. There is some downside and some risk; how much is the question. But if statistical comps mean anything, for Simmons to place as well as he does compared to Giannis and Green is a little encouraging if you're thinking about Simmons on the Blazers

 

[illmatic99]

yeah, Arenas nailed the situation down pretty well. It was real convenient for Doc & Embiid & the 76er front office to make Simmons the scapegoat for their playoff exit. They trashed him, both his play and his character. And people forgive the 76ers for their actions while slamming Simmons for threatening to sit out the season

Arenas mentioned something about what Simmons can do at 6'11 and it got me thinking....about Giannis and Draymond. How does Simmons compare to those two:

View attachment 40791

View attachment 40792

obviously Giannis is going to win statistical comparisons with just about everybody; he's a unicorn. But I was a little surprised that Simmons was as close as he is. And Simmons generally crushes Green statistically and that's while Green has played on much better teams which in turn tends to give a statistical bump to numbers

the TS% is interesting. Obviously none of these three guys should be shooting a lot from the perimeter. They are best in the paint

* percent of shots taken at the rim (0-3'): Simmons 54.2%....Giannis 49.4%....Green 36.2%

* shooting % at the rim: Giannis 73.6%....Simmons 71.6%....Green 65.1%

* percent of shots taken 3'10': Simmons 33.2%....Giannis 16.4%....Green 14.1%

* shooting % at 3'10': Simmons 41.1%....Giannis 35.0%....Green 30.3%

* average shot distance: Green 13.1'....Giannis 8.7'....Simmons 4.4'

(doing a full career comparison won't account for trend-lines over, say, the last 3 seasons)

of course, this isn't a full picture of the situation. There is some downside and some risk; how much is the question. But if statistical comps mean anything, for Simmons to place as well as he does compared to Giannis and Green is a little encouraging if you're thinking about Simmons on the Blazers

Good breakdown. Now take the skills Ben offers as his primary strengths (elite defense, elite playmaking, elite shot creation at the rim) and put them together with Dame's biggest weaknesses (defense, exhaustion from having to create so much, lack of an athletic finisher on the roll) and you have the most PERFECT pairing on paper. You can do the same with Dame's strengths (shooting off the dribble, spacing, P&R play) with Ben's biggest weaknesses (shooting, clogging up the lane, etc).

It's why I have been harping on Ben for 3+ yrs now. One of the biggest problems we have with the Dame/CJ duo is that they have very little synergy (as in they are not greater than than sum of their parts). For the most part, they have the exact same strengths/weaknesses. And it becomes tough to build the rest of the roster with those needed skills when they take up 60% of the salary cap. We would not have these issues with Dame/Ben.

I would have given up everyone but Dame to land him here years ago, but now with his reduced value, the idea that people won't even give up CJ for this guy is madness to me. He had one bad series and his coach/GM shit the bed in publicly undermining him. We have to take advantage of that.

And what is the risk here? Ben continues to be a diva and doesn't improve? The floor for a Dame/Ben led team is pretty much exactly where we are now. If we truly want to blow up next year, we can still do that! I really don't see a downside.

 

[Natebishop3]

Good breakdown. Now take the skills Ben offers as his primary strengths (elite defense, elite playmaking, elite shot creation at the rim) and put them together with Dame's biggest weaknesses (defense, exhaustion from having to create so much, lack of an athletic finisher on the roll) and you have the most PERFECT pairing on paper. You can do the same with Dame's strengths (shooting off the dribble, spacing, P&R play) with Ben's biggest weaknesses (shooting, clogging up the lane, etc).

It's why I have been harping on Ben for 3+ yrs now. One of the biggest problems we have with the Dame/CJ duo is that they have very little synergy (as in they are not greater than than sum of their parts). For the most part, they have the exact same strengths/weaknesses. And it becomes tough to build the rest of the roster with those needed skills when they take up 60% of the salary cap. We would not have these issues with Dame/Ben.

I would have given up everyone but Dame to land him here years ago, but now with his reduced value, the idea that people won't even give up CJ for this guy is madness to me. He had one bad series and his coach/GM shit the bed in publicly undermining him. We have to take advantage of that.

And what is the risk here? Ben continues to be a diva and doesn't improve? The floor for a Dame/Ben led team is pretty much exactly where we are now. If we truly want to blow up next year, we can still do that! I really don't see a downside.

I just wish we knew what was really going on behind the scenes.

Have we offered CJ? Is Morey saying no? Does Morey want more?

 

[Idog1976]

I just wish we knew what was really going on behind the scenes.

Have we offered CJ? Is Morey saying no? Does Morey want more?

Yep, I’m constantly wondering myself. When you have two hyper stubborn GM’s, one of whom is CIA Blackops level secretive, it could be anything going on.

 

[Hoopguru]

Question?
If Philly could keep Ben by firing Rivers, would you do it?
Seems that not only Rivers through him under the bus but also hasn't been playing him the best way.

I think I would fire Rivers as he really was out of line with the statements he made which as hurt the team, potentially. Plus I feel he's one of the most overrated coaches there is.

 

[sheed30]

What? He's better than Draymond in everything besides shooting. He is LeBron without a jump shot right now. I'd give CJ and Roco for him if need be without thinking twice.

That is absolutely insane for you to claim he is a Lebron James without a jump shot, like seriously.

Does his assists and rebound stats wow you that much to make that claim? Lo thanks for the laughs, this is why the Potland fan base always over rates players lol.

He has a huge body for a PG, playing PG when he easily can get his rebounds getting them over the smaller PG that’s guard him, and his assists are high because he has the ball in his hands 24-7.

How do you guys know he will be able to rebound at the same clip playing PF and going up against guys his size in the paint?

Simmons has great D and lock down D and can guard 1-4, I can’t say anything bad about his D.

I bet he comes here his number more or less resembles Nic Batum when he was here LOL. ESP the Batum that went through a horrible season when he couldn’t hit a 3 and blazer fans were calling for his head.

I know you guys are going to try to give me shit for saying that, but in Batum best season with us he averaged 5.1 assist and 7.5 rebounds playing next to Dame, Simmons will just be a better defender and put up the same stats offensively.

 

[sheed30]

What? He's better than Draymond in everything besides shooting. He is LeBron without a jump shot right now. I'd give CJ and Roco for him if need be without thinking twice.

Also your wrong, go look at Draymonds stats playing 3rd fiddle on Warriors team with Steph and Klay, while doing all the dirty work. Do you guys know if Simmons will even be happy just doing the dirty work lmao.

only Simmons PPG is better than Draymond really, and that’s him being the #1 ball handler on the Sixers team lol

 

[illmatic99]

I know you guys are going to try to give me shit for saying that, but in Batum best season with us he averaged 5.1 assist and 7.5 rebounds playing next to Dame, Simmons will just be a better defender and put up the same stats offensively.

Not just "a better defender" but a DPOY candidate. I know. "LOL." Why would a team with a historically bad defense ever want that? "LOL"

 

[illmatic99]

Also your wrong, go look at Draymonds stats playing 3rd fiddle on Warriors team with Steph and Klay, while doing all the dirty work. Do you guys know if Simmons will even be happy just doing the dirty work lmao.

only Simmons PPG is better than Draymond really, and that’s him being the #1 ball handler on the Sixers team lol

"lol" this guy is trash.



He's no better than Batum. "lmao"

 

[sheed30]

Not just "a better defender" but a DPOY candidate. I know. "LOL." Why would a team with a historically bad defense ever want that? "LOL"

Sure, how is that DPOY defense going to help you when you are a huge liability on offense.
Plus how many teams are actually trying to get him lol. Not really much at all, no championship team is trying to get him, basically the Twolves are the ones I heard the most interested.

btw, Gobert the DPOY sure helped them in that Clips series when Lue actually game planed to make his defense ineffective.

 

[sheed30]

"lol" this guy is trash.

View attachment 40794

He's no better than Batum. "lmao"

What does all those things have to do with anything lol, just posting that he was rookie of the year, an all star and etc doesn’t mean shit in the grand scheme of things

 

[illmatic99]

What does all those things have to do with anything lol, just posting that he was rookie of the year, an all star and etc doesn’t mean shit in the grand scheme of things

one of these days I'd like to have my head buried this deep in the sand too. wonder how that feels. "lol"

(seriously tho, who "lol's" this much? are you like a pre-teen girl?)

 

[sheed30]

one of these days I'd like to have my head buried this deep in the sand too. wonder how that feels. "lol"

(seriously tho, who "lol's" this much? are you like a pre-teen girl?)

Ok, can you answer me why his stats are actually worse now than his rookie year?

and while you are actually at it go compare draymond assist and rebounds to Simmons. Guess what Draymond actually has that Simmons doesn’t, balls to actually take and make a big shot, Simmons doesn’t even have the balls to take it. Plus Draymond has rings!