Trade Ben Simmons poll (1 Viewer)

[Idog1976]

Imagine the Lakers trade Westbrook for Simmons lol

Jesus christ please god NO! Surely they can't do that trade as Westbroke was just traded right, RIGHT?!?!?!?!

 

[illmatic99]

Because he played with the greatest shooter and arguably the greatest PG of all time, an elite 2-way player in Klay, and had a ring with KD to boot? Come on! Also, anyone taking Draymond over Simmons given their respective ages and trajectories is simply not aware of the fact of life that is aging.

nah, it's cuz Draymond hit 8 threes in that one game against us in 2016 in Round 1. Or maybe it's cuz he hit 6 threes in Game 7 of the Finals that same year while wide open. Oh wait... they lost that season to Cleveland. They've also lost half the playoff games where he has hit at least 5 threes.

 

[sheed30]

Because he played with the greatest shooter and arguably the greatest PG of all time, an elite 2-way player in Klay, and had a ring with KD to boot? Come on! Also, anyone taking Draymond over Simmons given their respective ages and trajectories is simply not aware of the fact of life that is aging.

Did I ever say I would take Draymond over him, we are compared their games, and guys wanting Simmons to be our Draymond in a sense, I say Draymond actually brings more to the table right now than Simmons and thats a fact.

Ofcourse Draymond is declining a little and Simmons is still young with upside, you guys are just fixated on the fact that Simmons has huge upside, to that I say he has actually regressed in his 4 years in the NBA and the stats show that too.

 

[sheed30]

Green's 3 point percentage over the last 6 seasons:

2015-16 .388
2016-17 .308
2017-18 .301
2018-19 .285
2019-20 .279
2020-21 .270

there seems to be a trend

ok, now post Simmons stats in his 4 years, are you seeing improve or some decline in those stats too?

 

[illmatic99]

"If you really think that teams don't give Draymond that kinda space nightly" ofcourse they do, and you are real ignorant to think he hasn't had many moments of him hitting a 3 or a big timely 3 to keep the defense honest.

and you are really ignorant to think teams aren't and wont continue to give that type of space to Simmons, who won't even attempt to shoot it.

There is many more examples of Draymond hitting a big 3, I'm not going to waste time posting those videos on here to make my point. As one poster with common sense said, Draymond has been clutch before even if you want to post your little video trying to make your point. There is no video of Simmons doing that because his ass his scared to even shoot it.

"lol"

 

[wizenheimer]

did somebody say "clutch"? ok then, clutch time stats from last season:

first, for Draymond:



For Simmons:



http://www.82games.com/2021/20GSW16.HTM

http://www.82games.com/2021/20PHI4.HTM

* Simmons +50 net points; Green -36 net points

* Simmons 18.2 pts/48 on 8.7 FGA and 67% shooting; Green 12.9 pts/48 on 12.3 FGA and 44% shooting

* Simmons 5.3 more points than Green on 4.2 fewer shots

* Simmons 66.7 winning %; Green 37% winning %

 

[wizenheimer]

ok, now post Simmons stats in his 4 years, are you seeing improve or some decline in those stats too?

for the most part, I'm seeing stability

 

[illmatic99]

did somebody say "clutch"? ok then, clutch time stats from last season:

first, for Draymond:

View attachment 40800

For Simmons:

View attachment 40801

http://www.82games.com/2021/20GSW16.HTM

http://www.82games.com/2021/20PHI4.HTM

* Simmons +50 net points; Green -36 net points

* Simmons 18.2 pts/48 on 8.7 FGA and 67% shooting; Green 12.9 pts/48 on 12.3 FGA and 44% shooting

* Simmons 5.3 more points than Green on 4.2 fewer shots

* Simmons 66.7 winning %; Green 37% winning %

it's really not even close. I don't really even know why this argument keeps getting brought up. Simmons is just on a completely different tier of player and has skills that are quite different. Not every play-making forward is Draymond. And quite a few of Green's stats can be skewed because of the heavily optimized system he plays in. The situation has been the contrary for Simmons where we have all noted how frequently he's been misused.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

Are you saying the tea leaves aren't a sure thing!?!?!

Never trust a leaf you can't smoke!

 

[Natebishop3]

Never trust a leaf you can't smoke!

I think the Chargers would tend to agree with you.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

Your contention that Simmons is behaving the way he is solely due to Rivers' comment has been pretty thoroughly debunked in this thread. It's a combination of Rivers misuse, Rivers comment, Embiid's horrid attitude in general, Embiid throwing him under the bus, the Sixers media relentlessly trashing him, and the ultra toxic Sixers fanbase just to recap. So therefore the coach doesn't matter other than the fact that most coaches - and I am willing to bet Billups in particular - would be superior. I have some concerns about his mentality, but that's only in a vacuum. Under Billups coaching and more importantly, next to Dame, I have close to none.

Sorry - I know I am snarky on this subject, but being reminded of the negativity Giannis put up with early in his career and the way he dealt with it did nothing to help my opinion of Simmons. If anyone had the power to avoid this situation it was Simmons himself!

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Mod, he insulted me this should be removed, remember personal attacks are not allowed here LOL

LOL.

LOL.

 

[42N8Bounce]

um, are you really going to make me go and post Draymond hitting big 3's and clutch moments?

I'm a Draymond Green fan. I was simply pointing out the content of the referenced video.

As for Green, I'd do a straight across swap for McCollum. Yes, he's not the greatest outside shooter, but damn, he brings everything else. And I think it would help balance the roster.

 

[42N8Bounce]

Green's 3 point percentage over the last 6 seasons:

2015-16 .388
2016-17 .308
2017-18 .301
2018-19 .285
2019-20 .279
2020-21 .270

there seems to be a trend

I'm pretty good with numbers. After studying this data for a while, I noticed that the years are increasing with each season.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

ok someone with some common sense, I can take that take. The fact remains Draymond has had many examples of hitting a big 3 and keeping the defense honest.

Can someone go and post me times Simmons has hit a big 3? I'll wait, its not even that he hasnt hit a big 3, I fault him for being scared to not even wanting to take it man, thats a huge red flag and mental block. I dont think he can get over that and suddenly become someone that can keep the defense honest if he is scared to even shoot it and fail.

Maybe some of you guys think he can work on that, but man, a NBA player being scared to shoot a 3 in this day and age NBA, thats a big problem to me and that wart is too bad to overcome even though he has great D and can help us greatly on that end.

Threes aren’t everything. Simmons is a threat to score 30. Green isn’t. We’ve seen Simmons without Embiid. Simmons led Sixers on 16 game win streak. Got him ROTY over Donovan Mitchell. In 2019 playoffs, Embiid missed game vs Brooklyn and Simmons led Sixers to win with 31/9. In 2020 playoffs, Simmons didn’t play and Sixers were swept in the first round. Simmons is a lethal offensive weapon getting to the basket even without a 3 in his arsenal. Don’t get me started on his defense…

 

[Orion Bailey]

Who cares if he has the balls to shoot the 3? I think that’s very important, I mean draymond has to shoot it and hit it sometimes to keep the defense honest.

how else are you going to keep the defense honest? If Simmons lack of even attempting 3’s don’t bother you enough, then that’s were we differ. Teams will just double team Dame over and over and over if Simmons is on the court and not keeping the defense honest and I see this being a big problem, even if Simmons helps us greatly on the defense

Ben has shown the skills though to be able to move around like a forward we have not had. If they double team Dame, Dame has a plethora of options now, including Simmons, to have someone cut or slash for an easy pass layup/dunk.

1. that was hardly 1 game. maybe click on it. I'm not the one being silly in this strawman that you made up. If you really think that teams don't give Draymond that kinda space nightly, then you are just being intentionally ignorant.
2. are you really that obtuse to think the reason they won titles in GS was solely because draymond shot 31% from 3s on his 3 attempts per game? had nothing to do with Steph/Klay/KD of course. Put those guys around Ben and you don't think they'd win 3 titles?
3. maybe you need to come up for air a bit.

4. maybe you just ignore me and don't see some of the videos that i've posted in this thread on how effective he can be even without shooting threes. his problem (IMO) is not that he doesn't shoot threes-- it's more that he doesn't shoot outside of the paint. I believe that can change with a more nurturing environment and relieved pressure from better spacing. A floater/midrange jumper from ~10' would do wonders for his effectiveness.

here are some videos for you. before you continue your nonsense strawmen arguments about draymond/batum/bullshit, i suggest you sit through at least one of them.

I watched them and you converted me with your persistence. Ive seen enough to believe he can work.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm pretty good with numbers. After studying this data for a while, I noticed that the years are increasing with each season.

im not good with numbers. You've now confused me....

 

[BonesJones]

Trading Robert Covington for Ben Simmons Would be a Mistake | Blazers Uprise

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

Ok, can you answer me why his stats are actually worse now than his rookie year?

and while you are actually at it go compare draymond assist and rebounds to Simmons. Guess what Draymond actually has that Simmons doesn’t, balls to actually take and make a big shot, Simmons doesn’t even have the balls to take it. Plus Draymond has rings!

Jordan Nwora also has a ring while Simmons doesn’t. Does that make him a better player as well?

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

Who cares if he has the balls to shoot the 3? I think that’s very important, I mean draymond has to shoot it and hit it sometimes to keep the defense honest.

With Draymond’s 3pointer pct, as the opposing team I would encourage him to shoot it. Keep them honest, having him shoot it rather than Curry or Kalyan I would take any day.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

ok someone with some common sense, I can take that take. The fact remains Draymond has had many examples of hitting a big 3 and keeping the defense honest.

Can someone go and post me times Simmons has hit a big 3? I'll wait, its not even that he hasnt hit a big 3, I fault him for being scared to not even wanting to take it man, thats a huge red flag and mental block. I dont think he can get over that and suddenly become someone that can keep the defense honest if he is scared to even shoot it and fail.

Maybe some of you guys think he can work on that, but man, a NBA player being scared to shoot a 3 in this day and age NBA, thats a big problem to me and that wart is too bad to overcome even though he has great D and can help us greatly on that end.

Draymond averaged 7.5ppg the last three years on poor efficiency when the Warriors desperately need scoring. Simmons has averaged double that.

Yes Simmons needs shooters on the court with him. Regardless, he provides much more offensive value than Draymond.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

I'm a Draymond Green fan. I was simply pointing out the content of the referenced video.

As for Green, I'd do a straight across swap for McCollum. Yes, he's not the greatest outside shooter, but damn, he brings everything else. And I think it would help balance the roster.

Why would GS make that trade?

 

[sheed30]

did somebody say "clutch"? ok then, clutch time stats from last season:

first, for Draymond:

View attachment 40800

For Simmons:

View attachment 40801

http://www.82games.com/2021/20GSW16.HTM

http://www.82games.com/2021/20PHI4.HTM

* Simmons +50 net points; Green -36 net points

* Simmons 18.2 pts/48 on 8.7 FGA and 67% shooting; Green 12.9 pts/48 on 12.3 FGA and 44% shooting

* Simmons 5.3 more points than Green on 4.2 fewer shots

* Simmons 66.7 winning %; Green 37% winning %

When you think of clutch, you don’t this if all those rubbish stats you just posted. None of those stats above are a indication of someone being clutch, some people are just straight ignorant on here

 

[blazerkor]

When you think of clutch, you don’t this if all those rubbish stats you just posted. None of those stats above are a indication of someone being clutch, some people are just straight ignorant on here

It's hard to take someone seriously that uses such poor grammar and then talks about the ignorance of others. Sure not every stat that could be considered clutch is covered but scoring in clutch situations definitely is and I believe your entire premise is that Dray would be able to score when needed to, whereas Ben wouldn't. Just because a post doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean you need to call people ignorant and for fuck's sake proof read your shit if your going to go so far as to call someone else dumb.

 

[Trail Rhino]

It's hard to take someone seriously that uses such poor grammar and then talks about the ignorance of others. Sure not every stat that could be considered clutch is covered but scoring in clutch situations definitely is and I believe your entire premise is that Dray would be able to score when needed to, whereas Ben wouldn't. Just because a post doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean you need to call people ignorant and for fuck's sake proof read your shit if your going to go so far as to call someone else dumb.

“Just because a post doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean you need to call people ignorant and for fuck's sake proof read your shit if “you’re” going to go so far as to call someone else dumb.”

I couldn’t help myself when I saw this. All in fun!

 

[42N8Bounce]

Why would GS make that trade?

I think GSW has already said they’re not interested in Simmons, but many people have thrown out 3-way trade ideas such as:
* Blazers send out McCollum and get Green from GSW.
* GSW sends out Green and filler/picks and gets Simmons from Philly.
* Philly sends out Simmons and gets McCollum from Blazers and filler/picks from GSW.

Hence my reference that I'd be okay with an even swap of McCollum and Green.

 

[illmatic99]

I think GSW has already said they’re not interested in Simmons, but many people have thrown out 3-way trade ideas such as:
* Blazers send out McCollum and get Green from GSW.
* GSW sends out Green and filler/picks and gets Simmons.
* Philly sends out Simmons and gets McCollum from Blazers and filler/picks from GSW.

Hence my reference that I'd be okay with an even swap of McCollum and Green.

View attachment 40807

the problem is that "filler" from GS has to be someone like Wiseman (who was the #2 pick last year) to make the deal work financially. I don't think it's feasible.

 

[42N8Bounce]

the problem is that "filler" from GS has to be someone like Wiseman (who was the #2 pick last year) to make the deal work financially. I don't think it's feasible.

I'm not proposing this trade. I'm simply stating that others have suggesting the concept of sending out CJ, and getting back Green in a multi-team trade, and I think Green has similar value as CJ.



If the teams agree to the base concept, I believe the 'filler' could be worked out.

 

[illmatic99]

I'm not proposing this trade. I'm simply stating that others have suggesting the concept of sending out CJ, and getting back Green in a multi-team trade, and I think Green has similar value as CJ.

View attachment 40808

If the teams agree to the base concept, I believe the 'filler' could be worked out.

Still think they value Kuminga a lot more than that. Maybe they do that with Wiggins, but not Draymond + Kuminga/Wiseman.

That said, I would hesitate at a CJ-Draymond exchange. Think Green has the potential of falling off a cliff in productivity given his age and mileage (esp playoff miles). And his lack of scoring is a lot more apparent than Ben's. ESPN projecting 8 wins fewer with that trade is hard to dismiss for me.

 

[42N8Bounce]

Still think they value Kuminga a lot more than that. Maybe they do that with Wiggins, but not Draymond + Kuminga/Wiseman.

That said, I would hesitate at a CJ-Draymond exchange. Think Green has the potential of falling off a cliff in productivity given his age and mileage (esp playoff miles). And his lack of scoring is a lot more apparent than Ben's. ESPN projecting 8 wins fewer with that trade is hard to dismiss for me.

Sure. I guess it all comes down to how you define 'feasible'. Possible, yes. Likely, no.

My point came from when @sheed30 was comparing the value of Green and Simmons. I believe CJs value is pretty close to the value of Green. I believe Simmons value is a step above that. How big of a 'step' is the question.