Trade Ben Simmons poll (1 Viewer)

[Idog1976]

But that's wasting Simmons' talents! He's basically pointless (double pun) on offense unless he's got the ball. Unless Dame is prepared to do a Kyrie (who switched to SG to give the ball to Harden), it wouldn't work. Now, if Simmons could shoot at all, it would be a different matter.

I'm a lot less foaming at the mouth to get Simmons since we got Nance. I know that's silly: Simmons is all-NBA and Nance will never sniff an all-star team (and probably won't start), but really, Nance does a lot of things Simmons does (he's even a surprisingly good passer and ball-handler) PLUS he can hit the odd three.

Simmons and Dame would be absolute mandess in the pick and roll. Also Simmons slashing to the hoop at 6'11" is something most can barely conceive of in terms of how deadly it would be and borderline unprecedented during the Dame years. Give Simmons man a screen have him slash hard and shooters rotate, if someone collapses to stop Simmons he's an elite passer. There is a TON that can be done with Simmons he just needs 3-4 shooters around him at all times. He never really had that in Philly.

 

[Idog1976]

But the question is, is Dame/Simmons (and team) more formidable than Dame/CJ (and team)?

Uh yes! Sure Simmons would be a downgrade on offense, but he'd raise the floor and ceiling of our defense to truly elite territory, especially if we are able to keep Covington and Nance. Simmons isn't a blank on offense, but CJ is an absolute sieve on defense. That's a huge difference right there. We are going from CJ's elite offense to Ben's quite strong offense (if used correctly) and CJ's no defense to Ben's 2nd best in the league defense. MASSIVE upgrade.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Traded for Marcus Smart, or a 3pt shooting 4/5.

So we have to remake the entire team to cater to a guy who disappears in the fourth quarter of playoff games?

 

[Strenuus]

No to Simmons. Today, tomorrow, forever.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Uh yes! Sure Simmons would be a downgrade on offense, but he'd raise the floor and ceiling of our defense to truly elite territory, especially if we are able to keep Covington and Nance. Simmons isn't a blank on offense, but CJ is an absolute sieve on defense. That's a huge difference right there. We are going from CJ's elite offense to Ben's quite strong offense (if used correctly) and CJ's no defense to Ben's 2nd best in the league defense. MASSIVE upgrade.

Agreed. And I think some of Simmons problems on offense go away if he's put in a more supportive environment with Dame to help steady things.

I'd be willing to bet he respects Dame and Dame's style more than what he's been dealing with in Philly.

 

[Natebishop3]

But the question is, is Dame/Simmons (and team) more formidable than Dame/CJ (and team)?

You’re leaving out a very important part of moving CJ. With CJ gone, Norm can move into his natural shooting guard position.

 

[wizenheimer]

I will eat my hat if GS gives up Draymond.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Minnesota, because I think they will be willing to give up D'Angelo Russell for him. To me, Wolves never seemed to be better when he was on the court

That’s why I don’t think Morey would want him.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

That’s why I don’t think Morey would want him.

He may not want him, but it might be the best he can get.

 

[wizenheimer]

I think the Blazers would be better after a CJ for Simmons trade, even with a couple of firsts added. But it isn't the same as a CJ for PG13 trade or a CJ for Butler trade. Those trades would have much narrower downsides. Simmons has a big flaw. However, that flaw has been exaggerated out of all reasonable proportion IMO. Yes, it means that Simmons has to be on the floor with good shooters and play in a favorable scheme. But his other talents border on elite

Portland can't contend without taking some risks

 

[andalusian]

But that's wasting Simmons' talents! He's basically pointless (double pun) on offense unless he's got the ball. Unless Dame is prepared to do a Kyrie (who switched to SG to give the ball to Harden), it wouldn't work. Now, if Simmons could shoot at all, it would be a different matter.

It would not. He will be the PG for 16m/g with the 2nd unit + whatever time he initiates with Dame playing off the ball or starting the break - and he will be the roll target in tons of pick and roll possessions with Dame. Since he is so good with the ball in his hand you can even see a case where he might be a secondary pick and roll initiator with Nurk for example if the opposing team have good switch defenders - given Dame's ability to rise from far - so the initial pick and roll can start a lot further away from normal with him setting the pick for Dame and if he can not attack the rim directly after the roll, being the initiator for the 2nd one.

The fact that Dame can stretch the opposing defense so much really makes Simmons a double threat in these situations.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You’re leaving out a very important part of moving CJ. With CJ gone, Norm can move into his natural shooting guard position.

Yes, absolutely.

 

[calvin natt]

Just want to make sure all the CJ haters who complain about “playoff CJ” are aware of “playoff Ben”. Simmons is a very talented guy who makes an impact on the game no doubt. One of the more exciting things if he were to ever come here would be the colossal meltdowns the game threads would have when he can’t make FTs during hack-a-Ben games that’s for sure

 

[julius]

Just want to make sure all the CJ haters who complain about “playoff CJ” are aware of “playoff Ben”. Simmons is a very talented guy who makes an impact on the game no doubt. One of the more exciting things if he were to ever come here would be the colossal meltdowns the game threads would have when he can’t make FTs during hack-a-Ben games that’s for sure

Ben won't be the 2nd guy in line though. He'll be, at best, the 4th option.

 

[Pinwheel1]

But it isn't the same as a CJ for PG13 trade or a CJ for Butler trade. Those trades would have much narrower downsides.

I guess if a narrower downside means a high probability that PG13 would still have pushed to go home to LA and Butler still would have walked to Miami.

 

[mook]

Simmons and Dame would be absolute mandess in the pick and roll. Also Simmons slashing to the hoop at 6'11" is something most can barely conceive of in terms of how deadly it would be and borderline unprecedented during the Dame years. Give Simmons man a screen have him slash harder and shooter rotate, if someone collapses to stop Simmons he's an elite passer. There is a TON that can be done with Simmons he just needs 3-4 shooters around him at all times. He never really had that in Philly.

The madness could be watching teams constantly foul him on the roll and our offense imploding as his tentativeness sets in.

I'm definitely in favor of trading CJ for Simmons. But I also admit there's a grass-is-greener kind of thing going on. CJ is absolutely fearless about taking shots. Simmons....isn't.

 

[illmatic99]

The madness could be watching teams constantly foul him on the roll and our offense imploding as his tentativeness sets in.

I'm definitely in favor of trading CJ for Simmons. But I also admit there's a grass-is-greener kind of thing going on. CJ is absolutely fearless about taking shots. Simmons....isn't.

Simmons just needs to... work. He's a career 60% FT shooter, he even shot 71% in the playoffs on 6 attempts a game his rookie year, so he's clearly capable. I think he got the yips this year that further lowered his efficiency from there. But he does bring an elite level of passing and could very effectively serves as both a forward (with Dame) and a backup PG behind Dame. It's a different but still valuable skillset that CJ does not bring us on offense.

As far as CJ's scoring, there is a skill he brings that is invaluable in the playoffs that is difficult to quantify. He can get a shot whenever he wants, and with Dame around, he's going to be mostly facing single coverage. Having watched how many isolations guys like Booker/Middleton got late in the playoffs was eye-opening yet again to realize CJ's importance. And regarding that fear of shooting, CJ could use some of that discretion. Yet, he's still not that efficient and we still have Dame as an elite iso scorer.

My insistence on going after Simmons mostly is his impact on the defensive end. We currently have Powell/Roco as the only two guys who can potentially check these guys:
- Harden/Durant
- Leonard/George
- Middleton/Giannis
- Brown/Tatum
- Oladipo/Butler
- Lavine/Derozan

Imagine if we had Simmons as an All NBA caliber defender at the point of attack, and Roco wreaking havoc as one of the best help guys in the league with Nurk/Nance at the backline. It just makes us a lockdown team defensively.

 

[wizenheimer]

I guess if a narrower downside means a high probability that PG13 would still have pushed to go home to LA and Butler still would have walked to Miami.

or, maybe, Dame could have convinced either to stay.

Portland sure as hell isn't a contender with CJ as the #2. The aversion to risks at least has to be weighed in the context of what Portland would be risking...which is just some above average mediocrity (in the Dame/CJ era, Portland has averaged 46 wins, a 6th seed, and has a 22-40 record in the playoffs...that's what breaking up Dame/CJ would be risking)

I don't think PG13 leaving was as high a probability as you do. Besides that, 2 years of PG13 and then this return:



is an incredible return for CJ...kind of like in the realm of best Blazer trade ever

 

[Natebishop3]

If you're able to get Simmons for CJ, could this be our version of the death lineup?

Dame
Norm
RoCo
Nance
Simmons

 

[Pinwheel1]

or, maybe, Dame could have convinced either to stay. I don't think PG13 leaving was as high a probability as you do

Portland sure as hell isn't a contender with CJ as the #2. The aversion to risks at least has to be weighed in the context of what Portland would be risking...which is just some above average mediocrity

I don't think PG13 leaving was as high a probability as you do. Besides that, 2 years of PG13 and then this return:

View attachment 40488

is an incredible return for CJ...kind of like in the realm of best Blazer trade ever

You are still under the impression that Pritchard even wanted to trade with Portland.

 

[wizenheimer]

You are still under the impression that Pritchard even wanted to trade with Portland.

nope....I'm under the impression that Olshey never tested whether or not KP would have traded with Portland because he made a shit offer

 

[illmatic99]

If you're able to get Simmons for CJ, could this be our version of the death lineup?

Dame
Norm
RoCo
Nance
Simmons

Depends on what we need and who we are playing. Simmons just adds a level of defensive versatility to allow us to switch 1-5. We've never had that before.

I can even see Chauncey benching Dame and going with Norm/Simmons/Roco/Nance/Nurk as a ridiculously long and tall lineup to close a defensive possessions late in games.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I can even see Chauncey benching Dame and going with Norm/Simmons/Roco/Nance/Nurk as a ridiculously long and tall lineup to close a defensive possession late in games.

Or Little instead of Norm. Or even Snell.

The amount of defensive versatility we have on the roster already, even without Simmons, is actually pretty impressive. Simmons would just put it over the top though.

 

[Idog1976]

Just want to make sure all the CJ haters who complain about “playoff CJ” are aware of “playoff Ben”. Simmons is a very talented guy who makes an impact on the game no doubt. One of the more exciting things if he were to ever come here would be the colossal meltdowns the game threads would have when he can’t make FTs during hack-a-Ben games that’s for sure

He's been amazing in basically all but one series. People's myopic focus on the Hawks series boggles the mind.

 

[blazerkor]

Ben won't be the 2nd guy in line though. He'll be, at best, the 4th option.

That might be the case but imagine if from coach Billups, Ben's mandate was to get a layup or dunk 10 times a game, just relentlessly attack the rim. The guy is lethal around the hoop... Giannis type of scary. If he's the roll man, he's getting easy buckets, if he sees an open driving lane as the secondary playmaker that's an easy bucket, if he cuts without the ball those are easy buckets and if we post him up just a little, more easy buckets. Dude has only been taking 12 shots a game during his first four seasons but if he's here he'll go from being the primary ball handler to the secondary and with that his number of point blank looks should go up and he should be around 16-17 shots per game. Dude shoots 56% from the field and that's more efficient than Nurk and their free throw shooting isn't that far apart.

I don't know what Simmons role will be in our offense but if you're trying to build him into his best potential self, he's going to be higher than your 4th scoring option and that's if he continues to be unwilling to take jumpers.

 

[tykendo]

Just want to make sure all the CJ haters who complain about “playoff CJ” are aware of “playoff Ben”. Simmons is a very talented guy who makes an impact on the game no doubt. One of the more exciting things if he were to ever come here would be the colossal meltdowns the game threads would have when he can’t make FTs during hack-a-Ben games that’s for sure

People forget how great CJ was against Denver in 2019. Last year i really feel like the Lumox Capella, injuring him ,took away all his explosiveness . Trading for Simmons would be a gamble. But if it happens, i will support him, and hope he kicks ass.

 

[calvin natt]

Ben won't be the 2nd guy in line though. He'll be, at best, the 4th option.

$38m for 4th option seems bad

 

[illmatic99]

Or Little instead of Norm. Or even Snell.

The amount of defensive versatility we have on the roster already, even without Simmons, is actually pretty impressive. Simmons would just put it over the top though.

Replacing one of the worst defenders in the league in CJ with a top 5 defender in Simmons seems like a no-brainer to me. Yet people like to focus on Ben's shooting and ignore the other end altogether. And Simmons is still an elite shot creator even if he can't shoot. I dunno, I've been on this dude for three years now as potentially one of the best fits for our team. We realistically shouldn't even have a puncher's chance at acquiring him without giving up Dame. To see people be so dismissive of his skill is eye opening.

 

[illmatic99]

$38m for 4th option seems bad

he's also a perennial DPOY candidate. I wonder if Utah fans say this kinda stuff about Gobert.

 

[calvin natt]

He's been amazing in basically all but one series. People's myopic focus on the Hawks series boggles the mind.

In his three seasons total in playoffs he is 14-7.5-8; 52% FT, 57% FG, and of course 0% from 3. What he does well he does really well. What he doesn’t do well he is awful at. I’m not opposed to having Simmons I guess for CJ straight up. But again, I don’t think he’s that coachable, he’s a late game liability, he makes a fuckload of money, but great defensively. Definite risk. Go for it I guess.