Trade Ben Simmons poll

[tlongII]

Simmons is irreparably broken. I would not trade shit for him.

 

[BankTeller]

Simmons plus 2 first for Nurk and Simons? Hmm the two FRP's make it interesting with Sharpe but he's EARLY in his development.

Yeah this all doesn’t matter if Sharpe doesn’t take huge leaps by January for us to be confident he will start next year. And I’m not sure I’d trade Ant unless his value was crazy high. You’d likely have to add Winslow and get back Claxton as well—I’ve moved off the thought that Simmons can be a starting C. But the overall point still stands.

If the intent is to keep KD in Brooklyn, Simons and Nurk help them IMMENSELY more than Ben. Outside of Kyrie, they also keep making all in moves for guys in their 30s.

Ben’s contract still scares me. Elite in transition playmaking, sure. But in the half court, he’s no better than Winslow right now, who makes a fraction of the money.

Honestly, since we’re in a position of power, I’d actually require the 2023 HOU/PHI pick, their own 2023 pick, and the 2027 PHI pick in addition to Ben and Claxton for Ant, Nurk, and Winslow.

 

[BankTeller]

Simmons is irreparably broken. I would not trade shit for him.

You might be right about that.

 

[blazerkor]

Yeah this all doesn’t matter if Sharpe doesn’t take huge leaps by January for us to be confident he will start next year. And I’m not sure I’d trade Ant unless his value was crazy high. You’d likely have to add Winslow and get back Claxton as well—I’ve moved off the thought that Simmons can be a starting C. But the overall point still stands.

If the intent is to keep KD in Brooklyn, Simons and Nurk help them IMMENSELY more than Ben. Outside of Kyrie, they also keep making all in moves for guys in their 30s.

Ben’s contract still scares me. Elite in transition playmaking, sure. But in the half court, he’s no better than Winslow right now, who makes a fraction of the money.

Honestly, since we’re in a position of power, I’d actually require the 2023 HOU/PHI pick, their own 2023 pick, and the 2027 PHI pick in addition to Ben and Claxton for Ant, Nurk, and Winslow.

If you just ran him in half court sets like you run Nurk: screening, handing off, P&R he would be a fucking lethal pick and roll Center with unparalleled passing ability and not I'm not forgetting about Joker. Then on defense you have a better version of what Bam gives the heat.

If I'm the team I demand to be able to talk with him before solidifying the deal and ask him if he'd be willing to commit to dunking the ball ten times a game, if he says yes I trade Ant and Nurk for him and a future first and feel great about it. If he's not sure about dunking it that much off of paint touches, rolls and slashes you wish him the best of luck and keep on getting after it with what we have.

 

[Strenuus]

35 of us were right all along.

Unless you changed your vote. Then no.

 

[blazerkor]

Simmons is irreparably broken. I would not trade shit for him.

He's in a circus right now trying to come back... to declare him irreparably broken is an absolute and only fools and the Sith deal in absolutes. I'm not calling you a fool but I also don't believe in the Sith code.

 

[RR7]

The problem with Simmons in a pick and roll is the opposing C will be waiting right near the basket instead of coming out. The roll will be non-existent.

 

[blazerkor]

The problem with Simmons in a pick and roll is the opposing C will be waiting right near the basket instead of coming out. The roll will be non-existent.

Do they do that with Nurk right now? No they can't drop coverage because when their PG gets picked one of the most lethal P&R three point shooters in league history is open for three.

 

[blazerkor]

Simmons isn’t a better version of Bam at ANYTHING on the court right now.

Just going off of track record and I think he'll fall back to his baseline even in the dumpster fire that is the Nets. If he was here under the leadership of Chauncey and Dame we would see him playing the best ball of his career at the position he should have been playing the entire time... just like he did at LSU.

 

[RR7]

Do they do that with Nurk right now? No they can't drop coverage because when their PG gets picked one of the most lethal P&R three point shooters in league history is open for three.

It just seems fans of many teams have this vision of what Simmons could or should be, and how much different it'd be elsewhere. Has he ever played C? He's had three different coaches. Why did none of them think of him as a C? Why is he never used as the screener in a pick and roll? How is his defense going to be against other Cs? How is his help defense from the C position?
I'd take a chance at hoping some of those answers would shift to the positive, but there's no way in hell I'd give up Simons AND Nurk to test it out.
He's injured, he can't shoot a lick, his free throw shooting is appalling. A career high turnover percentage. Negative VORP, negative BPM. A PER under 10. He's been awful. Again, I'd take a chance, but not by sending out Ant and Nurk. And really don't otherwise have the pieces with $$ to make any sense.

 

[blazerkor]

It just seems fans of many teams have this vision of what Simmons could or should be, and how much different it'd be elsewhere. Has he ever played C? He's had three different coaches. Why did none of them think of him as a C? Why is he never used as the screener in a pick and roll? How is his defense going to be against other Cs? How is his help defense from the C position?
I'd take a chance at hoping some of those answers would shift to the positive, but there's no way in hell I'd give up Simons AND Nurk to test it out.
He's injured, he can't shoot a lick, his free throw shooting is appalling. A career high turnover percentage. Negative VORP, negative BPM. A PER under 10. He's been awful. Again, I'd take a chance, but not by sending out Ant and Nurk. And really don't otherwise have the pieces with $$ to make any sense.

Could have been Embiid, Noel and Okafor. Obviously only Embiid panned out but until now he played with Embiid. Right now the Nets are just taking their time letting him get acclimated again. I think they could be doing it a different way... Marks obviously does too because Nash just got fired and all of that. The truth is the Nets have three guys who have always struggled to play a specific role on offense because they believe without exception in their ability to score the ball in any situation and the other because he is a big man who has had to play with Joel Embiid's conceited bullshit basically his entire career.

 

[BankTeller]

If Ben is available and the Nets are being reasonable, after January 15, this is my trade that I'd accept (I would likely start the conversation with two firsts but then let them whittle me down to one).
View attachment 50685

Ben would start at Center and he would ideally play all of his minutes there. That doesn't mean he couldn't initiate the offense (including bringing the ball up) on certain plays it just means he would be our 5 when he is in. I think we would then want to pick up a backup C off of the buyout market or just a free agent and possibly a backup PG although with all of the guys that can initiate the offense (Winslow, Hart, Keon, obviously Dame and Ben) we wouldn't really need that backup PG because GP2 could backup the 1 spot with someone else running point.

I think that a rotation of Dame, Shaedon, Hart, Grant, Simmons, Justise, GP3, Nas and possibly someone like our good friend LaMarcus Aldridge would make a lot of noise in the playoffs and be a very elite defensive team along with being an extremely potent offensive team.

That is a disgustingly small package for both Ant AND Nurk. If BRK wants Ant, they’re going to need to be convinced he’s a guy worth building around and give up more picks just a 1st in 2027. Winslow is pretty much the same player, just not as good on defense. However, defense shouldn’t come at a +$31m premium. I’m starting at three 1sts, and letting then whittle me down to two.

By the trade deadline, if they offered Ben + Claxton + at least the two 2023 1sts for Ant, Nurk, and Winslow, I’d probably do that deal. Claxton is at least another big body that can start at C and play for 20 mins and you could play Ben or Grant at C in small ball lineups.

Dame/Hart/Simmons/Grant/Claxton with GPII/Keon/Sharpe/Nas/Watford/Walker off the bench.

 

[BankTeller]

It just seems fans of many teams have this vision of what Simmons could or should be, and how much different it'd be elsewhere. Has he ever played C? He's had three different coaches. Why did none of them think of him as a C? Why is he never used as the screener in a pick and roll? How is his defense going to be against other Cs? How is his help defense from the C position?
I'd take a chance at hoping some of those answers would shift to the positive, but there's no way in hell I'd give up Simons AND Nurk to test it out.
He's injured, he can't shoot a lick, his free throw shooting is appalling. A career high turnover percentage. Negative VORP, negative BPM. A PER under 10. He's been awful. Again, I'd take a chance, but not by sending out Ant and Nurk. And really don't otherwise have the pieces with $$ to make any sense.

Yeah an ultimate buy low on Simmons has to be met with an ultimate sell high on Simons for it to be worth the risk to me. The contract just looks terrible right now, which is why I’d require 3 1sts.

If they offered 3 1sts, I’d find a hard time not taking the deal, and I’d take the risk over sending out too much for KD.

 

[blazerkor]

That is a disgustingly small package for both Ant AND Nurk. If BRK wants Ant, they’re going to need to be convinced he’s a guy worth building around and give up more picks just a 1st in 2027. Winslow is pretty much the same player, just not as good on defense. However, defense shouldn’t come at a +$31m premium. I’m starting at three 1sts, and letting then whittle me down to two.

By the trade deadline, if they offered Ben + Claxton + at least the two 2023 1sts for Ant, Nurk, and Winslow, I’d probably do that deal. Claxton is at least another big body that can start at C and play for 20 mins and you could play Ben or Grant at C in small ball lineups.

Dame/Hart/Simmons/Grant/Claxton with GPII/Keon/Sharpe/Nas/Watford/Walker off the bench.

First of all check the measurements, Ben Simmons wouldn't be a small ball C. Second of all we're talking a bout an all nba all defensive first team level guy whose value is down for Ant and Nurk who haven't sniffed that level of success. Due to his value being down I would want a first round pick with him, my initial offer would ask for two firsts but I could be haggled down to one. An all nba, all defensive first team 6'10", 7 foot wingspan, 240 lbs, 26 year old and a first for Ant and Nurk. Yeah, I'd do it.

Oh and the idea that Winslow is pretty much the same player as Simmons if fucking hilarious.

 

[SIeepwalker]

BTW, Zach Lowe and Bobby Marks spent some time on the Lowe Post today hashing out Durant trade ideas.

They both thought Portland was a good option.

They brought up Grant as the main piece. Then Hart as a rotational starter. And Sharpe, but both said Portland would have to think long and hard about moving him. And both said we don't have any interest in moving Simons.

Marks brought up Nurkic, but said we would have to get Claxton back.

I would do Grant + Nurk + Hart + 3 pick swaps for Durant + Claxton.

Dame
Ant
Winslow
KD
Claxton

with Nas/Sharpe/Keon/GP2/Eubanks off the bench. NGL, that is an absolutely sick team if healthy. BK would obviously insist on Sharpe.

I don't want Durant on this team man. we have something exciting going on and Durant would suck all the fun out of it. Also, Brooklyn had something nice and KD burnt it all to the ground. I don't want him doing the same here.

 

[illmatic99]

I don't want Durant on this team man. we have something exciting going on and Durant would suck all the fun out of it. Also, Brooklyn had something nice and KD burnt it all to the ground. I don't want him doing the same here.

dame is closer to steph in terms of leadership and decorum than kyrie. KD is only a headcase if you let him be one, but he has succeeded best in places where he just hoops. Portland would allow him that opportunity to dominate on the court while Dame handles and manages the personalities, media, etc. Chauncey also would provide a semblance of stability that KD has desperately needed since leaving GS.

if we could land KD without giving up Ant, and/or Shaedon, i think it's a no-brainer.

 

[tlongII]

He's in a circus right now trying to come back... to declare him irreparably broken is an absolute and only fools and the Sith deal in absolutes. I'm not calling you a fool but I also don't believe in the Sith code.

He can’t shoot. He’s never been able to shoot. And he’s not big enough to play center. He would get bullied or injured or both.

 

[BankTeller]

First of all check the measurements, Ben Simmons wouldn't be a small ball C. Second of all we're talking a bout an all nba all defensive first team level guy whose value is down for Ant and Nurk who haven't sniffed that level of success. Due to his value being down I would want a first round pick with him, my initial offer would ask for two firsts but I could be haggled down to one. An all nba, all defensive first team 6'10", 7 foot wingspan, 240 lbs, 26 year old and a first for Ant and Nurk. Yeah, I'd do it.

Oh and the idea that Winslow is pretty much the same player as Simmons if fucking hilarious.

Those are measurements you stated, I was just speaking about production on the court.

Bringing up Winslow was more about me being worried about Winslow and Ben being on the court at the same time. Winslow does all the things Ben does at a lower level, and they don’t space the floor. If I made it seem like I meant Winslow is the same player as Ben in terms of production, you’re right, that’s pretty fucking hilarious, and I certainly didn’t mean that. You know what’s also pretty fucking hilarious though? The fact that Ben is worth 9 times as much as Winslow but he’s not 9 times the player.

To me, this is all about the size of the contract. You’re trading too much production for a risk that might now pan out, all this without an extension for Grant or a decision on Hart’s future here yet. If it doesn’t work out here, how many 1sts will it cost us to get out from under his contract at the tail end of Dame’s prime?

 

[BankTeller]

dame is closer to steph in terms of leadership and decorum than kyrie. KD is only a headcase if you let him be one, but he has succeeded best in places where he just hoops. Portland would allow him that opportunity to dominate on the court while Dame handles and manages the personalities, media, etc. Chauncey also would provide a semblance of stability that KD has desperately needed since leaving GS.

if we could land KD without giving up Ant, and/or Shaedon, i think it's a no-brainer.

How do you get KD without at least Ant or Shaedon? Forget “and/or” lol.

 

[tlongII]

Plus he’s got back problems. I’d stay away from Simmons at all costs.

 

[illmatic99]

How do you get KD without at least Ant or Shaedon? Forget “and/or” lol.

it's what lowe was throwing around this morning as i posted. would involve grant + hart + nurk + pick swaps for kd + claxton.

lowe said we would not put ant on the table at the moment and value shaedon too much as well.

 

[BankTeller]

The Warriors are who should ultimately do the ultimate buy low on him in all honesty. They got enough big contracts and young guys to make it work out. He’d probably be more invigorated playing in a city like San Fran next to Steph in a top tier organization.

 

[BankTeller]

it's what lowe was throwing around this morning as i posted. would involve grant + hart + nurk + pick swaps for kd + claxton.

lowe said we would not put ant on the table at the moment and value shaedon too much as well.

I’m going to have to listen in on that cause WOW that is wild. I’d certainly give them all the unprotected 1sts and swaps until 2026. Grant, Hart, and Nurk would have to be sent out for young guys and 1sts most likely, cause why would the Nets want those guys for KD? Trading KD means a total rebuild. Why wouldn’t they want guys like Keon or Nas?

 

[RR7]

First of all check the measurements, Ben Simmons wouldn't be a small ball C. Second of all we're talking a bout an all nba all defensive first team level guy whose value is down for Ant and Nurk who haven't sniffed that level of success. Due to his value being down I would want a first round pick with him, my initial offer would ask for two firsts but I could be haggled down to one. An all nba, all defensive first team 6'10", 7 foot wingspan, 240 lbs, 26 year old and a first for Ant and Nurk. Yeah, I'd do it.

Oh and the idea that Winslow is pretty much the same player as Simmons if fucking hilarious.

But he was all defensive first team as a PG. We have no clue how his defense would be playing C. It's a vastly different ask. His length advantage as a wing defender goes away when you ask him to play C. And I've seen a lot of 76ers fans say he has no real rim protection ability.

 

[blazerkor]

He can’t shoot. He’s never been able to shoot. And he’s not big enough to play center. He would get bullied or injured or both.

He's just as big or bigger and more athletic than Bam is. He could easily play Center and it wouldn't be anything close to small ball. I know he can't or won't shoot that's obvious.

 

[Idog1976]

35 of us were right all along.

Unless you changed your vote. Then no.

I changed my vote and was clearly wrong about Simmons. That said Ant + Nurk for Simmons and 2 FRP especially if they are from other worse teams is somewhat enticing. I just am not sure if he's washed. I'd want a full psych evaluation and for Lillard and Chauncey to have a LONG conversation or three with him before hand.

 

[BankTeller]

it's what lowe was throwing around this morning as i posted. would involve grant + hart + nurk + pick swaps for kd + claxton.

lowe said we would not put ant on the table at the moment and value shaedon too much as well.

I just listened to their podcast bit about KD trades. I am not gonna take those guys seriously LOL.

“Tyus Jones, Dillon Brooks, Danny Green, and whatever picks”

Why would BRK ever do something like that?

They also listed Portland as a “Cinderella” team.

 

[blazerkor]

I changed my vote and was clearly wrong about Simmons. That said Ant + Nurk for Simmons and 2 FRP especially if they are from other worse teams is somewhat enticing. I just am not sure if he's washed. I'd want a full psych evaluation and for Lillard and Chauncey to have a LONG conversation or three with him before hand.

I don't think there needs to be a long conversation and I don't think it has to be Dame or Chauncey let alone both of them. I think it takes one question. We need you to dunk the ball at least ten times a game playing in the P&R with Dame, do you think you can do that along with all of the other great stuff you've shown over your career? If the dude doesn't think he can commit to doing that then you don't fuck with him, if he says yeah he can do that then you trade Ant and Nurk for him and how many ever FRPs you can get from the Nets.

 

[tlongII]

He's just as big or bigger and more athletic than Bam is. He could easily play Center and it wouldn't be anything close to small ball. I know he can't or won't shoot that's obvious.

No he’s not. Bam is 255 and Simmons is 240.

 

[blazerkor]

No he’s not. Bam is 255 and Simmons is 240.

You're going to squabble over 15lbs when these guys were one year out of high school?

It's cool, a lot of you are completely convinced that Ben Simmons' best basketball is behind him and I'm still leaning towards his best ball being in front of him.