Politics Bernie vs Biden!

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Biden did not look dead after S. Carolina. He looked very much alive.
Once it was established that the black vote was going to go overwhelmingly for Biden, and the youth vote was not going to bother voting, the outcome was clear.
When Pete and Amy realized they had no chance of winning, they did the midwestern sensible thing, which was to make the best decision for their own careers.

barfo
So do you believe that if Biden and the rest dropped out and endorsed Pete (or some other candidate), they would have done worse than Biden?
I mean I suppose its possible, but til that point it seemed like Pete was doing fine.
 
I know they didnt really want to go with Bernie and I get it that was / is a strange marriage, where he bad mouths the Democratic establishment and they seem to not want him either, but the decision to have everyone drop and endorse Biden is so strange to me.

It appears strange because you insist on viewing it as a conspiracy, even if you don't use that word.

There was not 'a decision' to have everyone drop out and endorse Biden. Individual people made individual decisions.

It made sense to Pete to endorse Biden, because (a) Biden was going to win and Bernie wasn't, and (b) Biden is likely to offer Pete a job; Bernie might or might not, and (c) Biden is more aligned with Pete policy-wise. I'd guess it was a very easy choice for Pete to make.

Amy is a little less clear-cut, since she has a job as senator. But maybe she's angling for something different, or maybe she just wanted to have a good relationship with the white house, and of course she's closer to Biden policy-wise as well. It would have been pretty unexpected for her to endorse Bernie.

If it really were a giant conspiracy, Warren would have endorsed Biden also.

barfo
 
So do you believe that if Biden and the rest dropped out and endorsed Pete (or some other candidate), they would have done worse than Biden?
I mean I suppose its possible, but til that point it seemed like Pete was doing fine.

He was my candidate, and I wish he'd made it, but in the first 4 contests he finished 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th. That is not a good trajectory.
And unfortunately, South Carolina reinforced/proved the idea that black voters wouldn't support him.
I think if everyone had dropped out and supported Pete that would have been great, but that wasn't going to happen.

barfo
 
It appears strange because you insist on viewing it as a conspiracy, even if you don't use that word.

There was not 'a decision' to have everyone drop out and endorse Biden. Individual people made individual decisions.

It made sense to Pete to endorse Biden, because (a) Biden was going to win and Bernie wasn't, and (b) Biden is likely to offer Pete a job; Bernie might or might not, and (c) Biden is more aligned with Pete policy-wise. I'd guess it was a very easy choice for Pete to make.

Amy is a little less clear-cut, since she has a job as senator. But maybe she's angling for something different, or maybe she just wanted to have a good relationship with the white house, and of course she's closer to Biden policy-wise as well. It would have been pretty unexpected for her to endorse Bernie.

If it really were a giant conspiracy, Warren would have endorsed Biden also.

barfo
Of course I could use your same argument and say it appears like nothing because youve decided it appears like nothing.

Warren being in the race at that point probably hurt Bernie but its hard to tell, thats the equivalent of saying the third party cost hillary the election, thats assuming who all those people would have voted for and no one really knows.
All in one weekend, didnt 4 or 5 candidates all drop out and endorse Biden, yeah Im sure it was individual decisions, but do you honestly believe that NONE of them communicated with each and other and it was just some random coincidence that they all did it at virtually the same time, and endorsed the same candidate. It doesnt have to be a giant conspiracy, where they find the infinity stones buried beneath Bidens home and decide he’s the chosen one. I understand it was politics and for whatever reason they all believed Biden had the best chance to win.
 
Lol, ok that was pretty good. I guess I just dont really understand why Biden was the candidate they all picked. At that point, I do believe they wanted to consolidate and keep Bernie from winning (this is my conspiracy theory I guess...), but my main point is I thought there were better candidates to get behind than Biden who it appeared was struggling to that point. So I just found very odd that he was the one they all got behind, but it will probably work, so I guess, thats fine.
The polls showed Biden as the stronger opponent of Trump.
Also, a lot of what Bernie wants, and it is good, is not popular yet. More groundwork needs to be done. I think Biden is more acceptable to more voters and that's what matters the most by a vast margin to me.
 
Of course I could use your same argument and just it appears like nothing because youve decided it appears like nothing.

Warren being in the race at that point probably hurt Bernie but its hard to tell, thats the equivalent of saying the third party cost hillary the election, thats assuming who all those people would have voted for and no one really knows.
All in one weekend, didnt 4 or 5 candidates all drop out and endorse Biden, yeah Im sure it was individual decisions, but do you honestly believe that NONE of them communicated with each and other and it was just some random coincidence that they all did it at virtually the same time, and endorsed the same candidate. It doesnt have to be a giant conspiracy, where they find the infinity stones buried beneath Bidens home and decide he’s the chosen one. I understand it was politics and for whatever reason they all believed Biden had the best chance to win.
Yes, your supposition that you questioned seems perfectly plausible to me.
Another problem of Bernie's is that he has not endeared himself to Warren, hence Warren has not endorsed Bernie even though Bernie's policies fit hers more than anyone else.
Anyhow, it's all a moot point because the race is now virtually over with.
Bernie has too much of himself invested in this race to capitulate now, but he will give in later and not much later. Another good thing is that Bernie wants Trump out of the White House and will work hard to achieve that. He also get's along well with Biden. These things spell good things for the Democrats in November.
 
All in one weekend, didnt 4 or 5 candidates all drop out and endorse Biden, yeah Im sure it was individual decisions, but do you honestly believe that NONE of them communicated with each and other and it was just some random coincidence that they all did it at virtually the same time, and endorsed the same candidate.

No, actually that didn't happen. Pete and Amy dropped out after S. Carolina and endorsed Joe. Joe then killed it on Super Tuesday and that forced Bloomberg and Warren out. Maybe Pete and Amy communicated with each other, but I actually doubt it, because they don't seem to like each other much - to the extent that they avoided being at Biden's rally at the same time that day.

It doesnt have to be a giant conspiracy, where they find the infinity stones buried beneath Bidens home and decide he’s the chosen one. I understand it was politics and for whatever reason they all believed Biden had the best chance to win.

We can agree on that. I'd guess the reason was a combination of political instinct, election returns, and polling data.

barfo
 
Yes, your supposition that you questioned seems perfectly plausible to me.
Another problem of Bernie's is that he has not endeared himself to Warren, hence Warren has not endorsed Bernie even though Bernie's policies fit hers more than anyone else.
Anyhow, it's all a moot point because the race is now virtually over with.
Bernie has too much of himself invested in this race to capitulate now, but he will give in later and not much later. Another good thing is that Bernie wants Trump out of the White House and will work hard to achieve that. He also get's along well with Biden. These things spell good things for the Democrats in November.
You’re right, its basically over now.
 
No one is really acting the way you’re describing though, even if you create some fictional amalgam of all the people here who are claiming it looks weird you’re still putting a lot of words in peoples mouth that they aren't really saying.

I'm not amalgamating, but I am exaggerating very slightly. I definitely think there are people in this forum who considered Sanders an extremist with unpopular views and now are acting like he got "stiffed" or had something stolen from him.

Ive never read a single person on this site say that people dropping out of a race and giving endorsements is new, but some of the people who dropped out were doing a heck of a lot better than Biden was at the time.

Who was doing a heck of a lot better than Biden when they dropped out?
 
No, actually that didn't happen. Pete and Amy dropped out after S. Carolina and endorsed Joe. Joe then killed it on Super Tuesday and that forced Bloomberg and Warren out. Maybe Pete and Amy communicated with each other, but I actually doubt it, because they don't seem to like each other much - to the extent that they avoided being at Biden's rally at the same time that day.



We can agree on that. I'd guess the reason was a combination of political instinct, election returns, and polling data.

barfo
I think and its my personal opinion, but skewing younger like with Pete or someone else might encourage voters to come out. Biden (or Bernie) vs Trump is like to many at least just a bunch of old white dudes two of whom are basically life long politicians and the other is a life long got an giant inheritance...

I always wonder with Bernie if he was 20 years younger would more young people come out to vote(?). Its hard to tell obviously, Im told the “young” are going to come out every 2-4 years and they usually dont.
 
I'm not amalgamating, but I am exaggerating very slightly. I definitely think there are people in this forum who considered Sanders an extremist with unpopular views and now are acting like he got "stiffed" or had something stolen from him.



Who was doing a heck of a lot better than Biden when they dropped out?
I think Bernie is the extreme side of the left or at least who they have chosen to get behind. I dont know if it was stolen from him, I mean people had the chance to vote and voted for someone else. I do wonder though and I guess its a conspiracy theory, what would happen if the Democrats really got behind him. From the outside (Im obviously not a democrat), it does appear like the establishment of the democrats dont really like him, and by his own words he is going at them as well. Yet most democrats I know think his ideas are pretty good or at least worth talking (ok I havent polled all
My friends but they seem to be concerned with similar issues as he is).
 
I think Bernie is the extreme side of the left or at least who they have chosen to get behind. I dont know if it was stolen from him, I mean people had the chance to vote and voted for someone else. I do wonder though and I guess its a conspiracy theory, what would happen if the Democrats really got behind him. From the outside (Im obviously not a democrat), it does appear like the establishment of the democrats dont really like him, and by his own words he is going at them as well. Yet most democrats I know think his ideas are pretty good or at least worth talking (ok I havent polled all
My friends but they seem to be concerned with similar issues as he is).

Well, as I alluded to in a previous post, almost by definition the "establishment" (which generally connotes the center of a particular organization) is not going to be in agreement with the extreme elements of that organization. Sanders embodies the left extreme of the Democratic party. I don't consider "extreme" to be a bad thing, just a geographic region of a spectrum. The median and the edge aren't going to be in agreement--on policy, but that bleeds out into the hazy concept of "electability." Because the mainstream Democratic party disagrees with Sanders on policy, they also feel that his policies won't be as popular.

A lot of Democrats do like Sanders' policies, but even they are split on whether to support him because some of them aren't sure the rest of America (which has been characterized as a center-right nation) will embrace his policies and they want to win the election. You can't do much if you don't win.

Similarly, a lot of Democratic House and Senate candidates who are running in "red states" may privately like Sanders' proposals (or they may not) but they certainly can't endorse them or him and hope to win in a conservative state. They also worry about running in a conservative state with Sanders at the top of the ticket, because it could draw out of a lot of angry/concerned conservatives to vote down Sanders and that could impact down-ballot Democrats.

I don't necessarily agree with all these concerns, but those are roughly the reasons why his ideas could be popular or interesting to many Democrats and yet most of the Democratic establishment is against him. And most of the Democratic voters, for that matter.
 
Well, as I alluded to in a previous post, almost by definition the "establishment" (which generally connotes the center of a particular organization) is not going to be in agreement with the extreme elements of that organization. Sanders embodies the left extreme of the Democratic party. I don't consider "extreme" to be a bad thing, just a geographic region of a spectrum. The median and the edge aren't going to be in agreement--on policy, but that bleeds out into the hazy concept of "electability." Because the mainstream Democratic party disagrees with Sanders on policy, they also feel that his policies won't be as popular.

A lot of Democrats do like Sanders' policies, but even they are split on whether to support him because some of them aren't sure the rest of America (which has been characterized as a center-right nation) will embrace his policies and they want to win the election. You can't do much if you don't win.

Similarly, a lot of Democratic House and Senate candidates who are running in "red states" may privately like Sanders' proposals (or they may not) but they certainly can't endorse them or him and hope to win in a conservative state. They also worry about running in a conservative state with Sanders at the top of the ticket, because it could draw out of a lot of angry/concerned conservatives to vote down Sanders and that could impact down-ballot Democrats.

I don't necessarily agree with all these concerns, but those are roughly the reasons why his ideas could be popular or interesting to many Democrats and yet most of the Democratic establishment is against him. And most of the Democratic voters, for that matter.
I dont agree with a lot of his... ideologies(? Sorry Im not as articulate as the rest of you words are escaping me), I do find him interesting though and I do like that he’s got enough steam that the important thing he wants to talk about are being forced into the conversation. Extreme is often used as a bad word in politics, and when the extremes are its my way or hope you die a fiery death thats when it should be a bad word. When its my ideas only really work if we go all in then that kind of extreme isnt necessarily a bad thing, and often times its true. I wouldnt vote for him, which is I guess the problem he needs people to vote for him, but I applaud that he’s got ideas. That arent lets try to continue to make crony capitalism work and lets do health care by the goverment while still making health insurance companies happy, etc...
 
I could argue Sanders being in the race hurt Warren.

Look, Black women are the most loyal sector of the Democratic party. South Carolina showed them solidly behind Biden. Other candidates tried to win their votes but we're largely unsuccessful. They saw the writing on the wall. Biden was pretty low on my preference list. I worked and voted for my preferred candidate. She didn't win. My realistic choice is a flawed man who is empathetic and will appoint sane competent people or an incompetent sociopath. Biden will never be a great president but he could be a decent one.
 
I have no idea who or what your first source is and your second source is Saturday Night Live. That's two nothings, as far as I'm concerned.


Well, the first source is a collage of undeniable videos. The second source is pure comedic relief. Take them for what they are.
 
Clearly Trumpers will say dementia in 2020 the same way they said email in 2016. To distract from their unqualified, deranged, vicious god emperor and his list of failures.


Well, Biden has every opportunity to overcome that, does he not?
 
A lot of Democrats do like Sanders' policies, but even they are split on whether to support him because some of them aren't sure the rest of America (which has been characterized as a center-right nation) will embrace his policies and they want to win the election. You can't do much if you don't win.

Word.
 
Well, Biden has every opportunity to overcome that, does he not?

He doesn't have to over come that.

For one, other than your unproven dementia narrative, Biden is neither unqualified, deranged, vicious not a god emperor.
 
There is a very good reason so many people, including many in the Dem party, believe Sanders would lose the election, even against Trump.

Sander's platform is a huge pile of lies, exaggerations, and misinformation. Bernie's plan would run out of funds and self destruct within 9 months, at best. And so would the country.

On Biden's foggiest day, he is 10,000 times a better option than Sanders.
 
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He'd lose the election in a landslide. Any one else good shot to win.


Fill me in. I thought Hillary had actually won the popular vote in 2016. Plus, she's already spent 8 years in (the same) office with the guy.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/the-competing-strategies-of-bidens-vp-pick

....(Biden) is 77 years old and has worked in Washington for nearly his entire adult life. “The focus groups will start out saying, ‘He should pick a woman of color,’” a top adviser to a former 2020 contender says. “They will end with, ‘You know, he really should pick someone who could be president, because there’s a chance he could die.’ The way voters phrase it is, ‘Everybody I know is worried about Biden being old.’ Democrats have made their decision that they want somebody who can beat Trump. So they view choosing a V.P. not as checking a demographic box, but picking someone who can do the job on day one, if necessary, because that’s what Biden needs to do to win.”
 
Fill me in. I thought Hillary had actually won the popular vote in 2016. Plus, she's already spent 8 years in (the same) office with the guy.

Ummm, as you've pointed out more than once, the popular vote doesn't mean squat...once again, you cannot have it both ways.
 
I dont agree with a lot of his... ideologies(? Sorry Im not as articulate as the rest of you words are escaping me), I do find him interesting though and I do like that he’s got enough steam that the important thing he wants to talk about are being forced into the conversation. Extreme is often used as a bad word in politics, and when the extremes are its my way or hope you die a fiery death thats when it should be a bad word. When its my ideas only really work if we go all in then that kind of extreme isnt necessarily a bad thing, and often times its true. I wouldnt vote for him, which is I guess the problem he needs people to vote for him, but I applaud that he’s got ideas. That arent lets try to continue to make crony capitalism work and lets do health care by the goverment while still making health insurance companies happy, etc...
That's a great observation about Bernie's policies being introduced to the discussion which I would think leads to a gradual migration toward those policies when they have logic behind them. I think his Medicare for all has logic behind it but it's gonna take a lot of discussion to get people to lean that way. Change happens the best when people support it otherwise politicians are doomed to political suicide.
Think of Bernie as the advance guard. Too bad the advance guard is expendable.
 
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