Betting Odds Miller/Scoot at #2/#3

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
wizenheimer said:
close call, probably Avdija because of his utility
Click to expand...

Deni's skill set is harder to find IMO. I know I have been waiting for someone like him for a while. Other forwards I have hoped would succeed with his skill set did not. (Either because they were injury-prone or could not shoot at all) But I love having a forward who can help out with facilitating the offense so the guards can focus on shooting. We always need at least 3 ball handlers on the floor. (especially in the playoffs)

But......we also need a forward who is a big-time scorer. Hopefully in this draft.
 
I will Hindsightadamus the shit out of the prediction and put a 100 on Charlotte winning the 2nd lottery pick and then using it on Brandon Miller.
 
julius said:
Damnit. Why didn't the blazers pick Miller instead?!?
Click to expand...
Well I meant it more that Miller was the right choice for Charlotte. Lot of debate even after the draft if they made the right choice.

Obviously Blazers just took who was left.

I do remember some Amen supporters at #3.... it didn't take long for that to look like the far better option in hindsight.
 
SheedSoNasty said:
Just for fun, would people rather have Miller or Deni?
Click to expand...
By far Miller. I remember bringing up a bunch of his stats over the summer, he had one of the most efficient rookie seasons shooting even among guards let along forwards. Larry Bird was about the only player in his tier.

Scoot's comparisons were mostly all busts.

I love Deni game but it's a role player game without much upside.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
By far Miller. I remember bringing up a bunch of his stats over the summer, he had one of the most efficient rookie seasons shooting even among guards let along forwards. Larry Bird was about the only player in his tier.

Scoot's comparisons were mostly all busts.

I love Deni game but it's a role player game without much upside.
Click to expand...
Scoot is a "better" shooter from range and better distributor. Amen is better scoring closer to the basket and rebounding.

It's kind of hard to compare them. Amen is taller, Maybe that gives him the edge as far as being the better choice? But he's definitely not a PG.

Scoot has been played off the ball far too much, IMO.

We have plenty of athletic wings who can't shoot the 3 ball.
 
Last edited:
Phatguysrule said:
Scoot is a "better" shooter from range and better distributor. Amen is better scoring closer to the basket and rebounding.

It's kind of hard to compare them. Amen is taller, Maybe that gives him the edge as far as being the better choice? But he's definitely not a PG.

Scoot has been played off the ball far too much, IMO.

We have plenty of athletic wings who can't shoot the 3 ball.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but don't we eventually want an offense with a lot of ball movement? If so, then Scoot better learn to play off the ball like everyone else.
And I already see improvement for him in that area. He will get there.

He reminds me a little of Kyle Lowry who struggled a bit until his 4th or 5th season......
until he improved his 3 pt shot which seemed to open things up for him.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yeah, but don't we eventually want an offense with a lot of ball movement? If so, then Scoot better learn to play off the ball like everyone else.
And I already see improvement for him in that area. He will get there.

He reminds me a little of Kyle Lowry who struggled a bit until his 4th or 5th season......
until he improved his 3 pt shot which seemed to open things up for him.
Click to expand...
Of course. But Scoot needs to initiate the offense. He is a constant threat to get a paint touch, and that is very disruptive for a defense to guard against. Once he gets more used to finishing in the paint or dishing to the shooters/slashers he'll be a much more effective. But he needs to do it game in and game out, IMO.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Well I meant it more that Miller was the right choice for Charlotte. Lot of debate even after the draft if they made the right choice.

Obviously Blazers just took who was left.

I do remember some Amen supporters at #3.... it didn't take long for that to look like the far better option in hindsight.
Click to expand...

Amen isn't exactly lighting up the league either...and if you think Scoot is a bad shooter, have I got news for you!
 
Phatguysrule said:
Of course. But Scoot needs to initiate the offense. He is a constant threat to get a paint touch, and that is very disruptive for a defense to guard against. Once he gets more used to finishing in the paint or dishing to the shooters/slashers he'll be a much more effective. But he needs to do it game in and game out, IMO.
Click to expand...

his shooting will still be an issue if he can't elevate his percentages and add some consistency

but the much bigger issue is a lack of left hand skills. I'm not sure I've seen a PG who has such a weak off-hand
 
wizenheimer said:
his shooting will still be an issue if he can't elevate his percentages and add some consistency

but the much bigger issue is a lack of left hand skills. I'm not sure I've seen a PG who has such a weak off-hand
Click to expand...
Yep. That'll have to improve. If he can't improve those things he probably won't be our PG next time we're a top 10 team.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Of course. But Scoot needs to initiate the offense. He is a constant threat to get a paint touch, and that is very disruptive for a defense to guard against. Once he gets more used to finishing in the paint or dishing to the shooters/slashers he'll be a much more effective. But he needs to do it game in and game out, IMO.
Click to expand...

To a certain degree I guess, but I don't think any one player needs to initiate the offense every time, especially in crunch time. It is too easy to double those players. If Deni or Shae get the rebound (or even Banton) I want to see them pushing it and initiating the offense.

I am sure a few will complain that Ant is forcing Scoot to play off the ball, but it doesn't really matter who is on the floor with him (even Cooper Flagg) Scoot will still need to learn to play off the ball at times. Bringing the ball up the court and then handing it off to one of them is not really initiating the offense IMO. We always need to have 3 solid ball handlers on the court at all times....who can also create their own shot. (i.e like Boston has) Ideally, 4 if everyone's prayer is answered and we land the #1 pick.
 
julius said:
Amen isn't exactly lighting up the league either...and if you think Scoot is a bad shooter, have I got news for you!
Click to expand...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompam01.html

Amen is already a positive, productive player and one of the best defensive players in the league. In a off-ball role when the upside for picking him was to put him on-ball. Even if he never develops a shot, he's already a 20-25M per year level player.

Scoot is still trying not to be a negative most nights.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
To a certain degree I guess, but I don't think any one player needs to initiate the offense every time, especially in crunch time. It is too easy to double those players. If Deni or Shae get the rebound (or even Banton) I want to see them pushing it and initiating the offense.

I am sure a few will complain that Ant is forcing Scoot to play off the ball, but it doesn't really matter who is on the floor with him (even Cooper Flagg) Scoot will still need to learn to play off the ball at times. Bringing the ball up the court and then handing it off to one of them is not really initiating the offense IMO. We always need to have 3 solid ball handlers on the court at all times....who can also create their own shot. (i.e like Boston has) Ideally, 4 if everyone's prayer is answered and we land the #1 pick.
Click to expand...

Scoot is going to be better initiating the offense than anybody else on the team. He already is.

It's not that he has to do it every time, it's that we should have him doing it every time something better (something easy) isn't available. And he needs as much experience doing that now as he can get.

If they double team him that means somebody is open. A good point guard will not have a problem with that. That is actually the goal of a good point guard. Whoever the defender leaves to double team him should be open (or cutting to get open) and receive the ball before the double team arrives.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Scoot is going to be better initiating the offense than anybody else on the team. He already is.

It's not that he has to do it every time, it's that we should have him doing it every time something better (something easy) isn't available. And he needs as much experience doing that now as he can get.

If they double team him that means somebody is open. A good point guard will not have a problem with that. That is actually the goal of a good point guard. Whoever the defender leaves to double team him should be open (or cutting to get open) and receive the ball before the double team arrives.
Click to expand...

Agree. But he needs experience in both scenarios, and I think that is happening.
 
B-Roy said:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompam01.html

Amen is already a positive, productive player and one of the best defensive players in the league. In a off-ball role when the upside for picking him was to put him on-ball. Even if he never develops a shot, he's already a 20-25M per year level player.

Scoot is still trying not to be a negative most nights.
Click to expand...

Team needs shooting. Amen doesn't provide that.
 
julius said:
Team needs shooting. Amen doesn't provide that.
Click to expand...

FG%: Amen .544....Scoot .390
2ptFG%: Amen .610....Scoot .425
3ptFG%: Amen .190....Scoot .320
eFG%: Amen .557....Scoot .444
TS%: Amen .588....Scoot .493
FG% at rim: Amen .731....Scoot .515

PER: Amen 17.8....Scoot 10.1
winshares/48: Amen .157....Scoot -0.033
BPM: Amen +2.2....Scoot -5.3
VORP: Amen +2.4....Scoot -2.0

sure looks like Amen crushes Scoot as a shooter in every stat category except 3's. Even accounting for Scoot's advantage in three's, the gulf between the two in shooting efficiency is huge. I doubt shooting three's will never be a strength or much of a positive factor for Scoot.

by the way, Amen is a much better rebounder than either Deni or Camara. Now, the issue would be Amen + Camara + Avdija as a wing rotation. That's probably too much redundancy and not nearly enough elite offense
 
Scoot would be a different player under a different coach. One could argue a worse player, of course, but he would not be the same.
 
Cugel said:
Scoot would be a different player under a different coach. One could argue a worse player, of course, but he would not be the same.
Click to expand...
Do you think if Chauncey was Michael Jordan's first NBA coach, he would not have the impressive rookie season he had?
 
julius said:
Team needs shooting. Amen doesn't provide that.
Click to expand...

You don't think Amen's current value couldn't fetch a premiere shooter? He's one of the best wing defenders in the league. He's already finishing off games for a very good team. Let's not dog Amen just because we're rooting for Scoot.
 
AmirIcon said:
You don't think Amen's current value couldn't fetch a premiere shooter? He's one of the best wing defenders in the league. He's already finishing off games for a very good team. Let's not dog Amen just because we're rooting for Scoot.
Click to expand...

Sure he could fetch a premiere shooter, but can he fetch a premiere shooter who is also a good defender? That is who we need starting at SF.

I like Amen and when (and if) he becomes a good outside shooter he will be a really good player. He is so explosive, a great defender, and has great handles. He has all-star potential for sure.......if he improves his outside shot. But if he does not, then we are better off with Deni or Camara at SF. (and Scoot at PG)

I don't mind saying I am rooting against Amen, because missing out on him would be painful.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
But if he does not, then we are better off with Deni or Camara at SF. (and Scoot at PG)
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but Tou is not a better player than Amen. And I love Tou. Deni and Amen are very similar in what they do for their teams.
 
AmirIcon said:
I'm sorry, but Tou is not a better player than Amen. And I love Tou. Deni and Amen are very similar in what they do for their teams.
Click to expand...

I agree he is not better, just that we are better off having a 35% 3-point shooter than a 20% 3-point shooter. Granted Amen does other things that Camara can't, but right now Camara outweighs him by about 25 lbs and can cover both forward positions.

Having said all that it ultimately comes down to who fits in best with the other players on the floor.
 
AmirIcon said:
You don't think Amen's current value couldn't fetch a premiere shooter? He's one of the best wing defenders in the league. He's already finishing off games for a very good team. Let's not dog Amen just because we're rooting for Scoot.
Click to expand...

What's that got to do with anything?
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I agree he is not better, just that we are better off having a 35% 3-point shooter than a 20% 3-point shooter. Granted Amen does other things that Camara can't, but right now Camara outweighs him by about 25 lbs and can cover both forward positions.

Having said all that it ultimately comes down to who fits in best with the other players on the floor.
Click to expand...
I'd certainly rather have Amen over Camara, not sure why you think we're better off with Camara. Sure his 3pt shooting is better today but it's not like we're getting ready for a playoff push or care about wins or anything. Amen has the upside we were hoping Scoot would have.

I really like Camara, but he's just a clear role player - a tiny bit better version of Thybulle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Featured content

Back
Top