OT Black Man In Minnesota Dies After Cop Kneels On His Neck/ Portland Riots (2 Viewers)

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An example of systemic racism and how Portland benefitted from it:

You know how recently The litter problem in Portland, especially on the side of the road, is just awful? And we hate it, right? It wS so much better ten years ago, why did it get bad?

Well... Slave labor is explicitly legal if the person doing the labor is a prisoner. This is in the constitution, has been since the 1860s. And in the 1980s, the war on drugs, which was designed explicitly to target Black people (though it’s never written in the words of the laws or guidelines), increased the prison population an incredible amount.

Those people, slaves for the state, would do litter patrols, and clean up the litter from the highways. When we decriminalized marijuana, the drug crime prisoner slave workforce evaporated, and the litter started piling up.

Without context, complaining about litter is innocuous, but in context, complaining about it is complaining about not having a slave force made up of people in prison on trumped up drug charges doing slave labor.

That is systemic racism at work: a series of systems layered on each other that inevitably end with racist results because of how they were designed to be implemented.

As an addendum, when marijuana was decriminalized, the laws around how to get a license to grow and sell excluded more black people than whites people because of the requirement that the growers not have a criminal drug record; since most of the drug offenses prosecuted in the war on drugs were against Black people, they were excluded, even though pot use rates were the same across races the entire time. Now the pot industry in Oregon is mostly white, because the layered systems worked to exclude Blacks, while no one system explicitly says “Blacks are bad lol”
 
ABM said:
Great, then you figure out how to end this so-called systemic racism and I'll be following right behind you.
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Not sure what that has to do with anything I said (kudos for, once again, proving my point that you can only respond with logical fallacies). But I know, you're just making a joke!

Here's a pro tip. It's not a joke if it's not funny.

When you actually want to take this seriously, instead of coming up with what you deem to be witty comebacks, then maybe people will take you seriously here. But I know you won't stop doing that, because it means you'll actually have to do some self reflection, and can't just pass off people treating you dismissively because they don't "understand" you.
 
ABM said:
Great, then you figure out how to end this so-called systemic racism and I'll be following right behind you.
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Because there is no clear answer to solve systemic rascism, we should just ignore it then until someone does have an answer?

Or should we continue to strive for a better equality in all facets whether it's clear it makes things better or not? Learn from experiments and experience?


Are you not wanting to participate in trying to figure out how we can end systemic rascism, and would rather just sit and reep the benefits of being privileged until someone else finds the answer?
 
SportsAndWhine said:
An example of systemic racism and how Portland benefitted from it:

You know how recently The litter problem in Portland, especially on the side of the road, is just awful? And we hate it, right? It wS so much better ten years ago, why did it get bad?

Well... Slave labor is explicitly legal if the person doing the labor is a prisoner. This is in the constitution, has been since the 1860s. And in the 1980s, the war on drugs, which was designed explicitly to target Black people, increased the prison population an incredible amount.

Those people, slaves for the state, would do litter patrols, and clean up the litter from the highways. When we decriminalized marijuana, the drug crime prisoner slave workforce evaporated, and the litter started piling up.

Without context, complaining about litter is innocuous, but in context, complaining about it is complaining about not having a slave force made up of people in prison on trumped up drug charges doing slave labor.

That is systemic racism at work: a series of systems layered on each other that inevitably end with racist results because of how they were designed to be implemented.

As an addendum, when marijuana was decriminalized, the laws around how to get a license to grow and sell excluded more black people than whites people because of the requirement that the growers not have a criminal drug record; since most of the drug offenses prosecuted in the war on drugs were against Black people, they were excluded, even though pot use rates were the same across races the entire time. Now the pot industry in Oregon is mostly white, because the layered systems worked to exclude Blacks, while no one system explicitly says “Blacks are bad lol”
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I miss your posts. :) Glad to see you back more often. :)

Things going good for you?
 
Orion Bailey said:
I miss your posts. :) Glad to see you back more often. :)

Things going good for you?
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Thanks! I’m doing pretty good; my band’s album comes out tomorrow, so I’m real excited about that. Been getting my feet under me a bit more emotionally/mentally. I’m not going to agree with many here, but I definitely feel like, the longer I’ve been myself, the easier it is to hold my own, so I thought, why not just come back and shoot the shit with y’all?
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
If you haven’t yet figured out that YOU are a part of the problem, then you aren’t’ following anyone anywhere. You’re just trodding the same old path.
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I've told people in here forever that these are matters of the heart. Hearts are changed one conversation, one experience, one act of love at a time. That's where the real solutions lie. Would I go downtown and get all up in people's faces in a protest? No, but I'd buy any one of my Black brothers lunch and spend a few hours in meaningful conversation, laughter, etc. As I mentioned to Minstrel, it's a grass roots thing to me. That's where effective changes emanates from. We can use terms such as "systemic", and all that, but I'm cool with living life inter-racially, as it were.
 
If you continually make posts that draws the ire of the vast majority of the responses, and they actually can back up their arguments with logic and facts, and you keep repeating the same fallacies in your arguments...over and over...it's probably time to do some soul searching for why so many people seem to disagree with you.
 
Strenuus said:
Have you looked at the history of this country? Its systemic racism by definition.

To believe otherwise means you're not listening and seeing.
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I want to be fair to ABM: the systems are designed not to give gifts to whites, but to make them feel normal, so normal psychology makes whites think everyone has what they do, when the systems have set up roadblocks to others that are invisible to whites... if they are incurious or dealing with their own shit... I mean, there’s also that perpendicular systemic classism that cuts across race as well, so if you’re poor you’ve got your own shit to deal with and now suddenly one quadrant is fighting against other quadrants over who gets the most crumbs when they all should be fighting upward against the people actually benefitting (hint: it’s billionaires)
 
ABM said:
As stated elsewhere, I'm all about the peace aspect.
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Yes, I'm all for peace as well. But what was more effective about him was that he was a fighter--not with violence but with demands for government action. He galvanized the black community and a significant chunk of the white community to push for civil rights legislation. He knew that government had a crucial role to play and fought tirelessly for it. He's a model of what I mentioned--bottom-up and top-down approaches working in concert.
 
SportsAndWhine said:
Thanks! I’m doing pretty good; my band’s album comes out tomorrow, so I’m real excited about that. Been getting my feet under me a bit more emotionally/mentally. I’m not going to agree with many here, but I definitely feel like, the longer I’ve been myself, the easier it is to hold my own, so I thought, why not just come back and shoot the shit with y’all?
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Band??????

Why didn't I get word of this?????

And how do I get my hands on a disc?

And Always be you, and fuck anyone who cant accept that. :) This world can be so harsh. So happy to see you not conforming to what they want you to be and forcing them to accept who you are. :)
 
Orion Bailey said:
Band??????

Why didn't I get word of this?????

And how do I get my hands on a disc?
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The Crystal Furs is the band I’m in (I play bass and mixed the songs); I’ve put a couple of our songs on the flavor of the month thread (Too Kind To Be Cruel and Expo67).

http://crystalfurs.bandcamp.com/

the CD will be available to pre-order tomorrow

And Always be you, and fuck anyone who cant accept that. :) This world can be so harsh. So happy to see you not conforming to what they want you to be and forcing them to accept who you are. :)
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thanks; it feels good to be me, even if it’s a constant battle getting all the rights a straight white man has... oddly relevant to this thread lol
 
crandc said:
Am I the only one who finds it both laughable AND sad to see a bunch of white males sitting at home discussing whether racism is a real thing?
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Nah, I posted vids of two uniquely different BLACK people dissing the whole systemic racism thing, then simply posed a question. You're free to be laughing sad.
 
crandc said:
Am I the only one who finds it both laughable AND sad to see a bunch of white males sitting at home discussing whether racism is a real thing?
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I don't think it's just a bunch of white males discussing it...it's pretty much everyone saying what you just did except for two people....maris and ABM haven't gotten any support for questioning the existance of racism....and I think if anyone needs to work through this it's going to be white people..irregardless of gender
 
crandc said:
Am I the only one who finds it both laughable AND sad to see a bunch of white males sitting at home discussing whether racism is a real thing?
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Sorry Crand, but no more laughable than a white woman sitting on a computer saying its sad a bunch of white people are on a computer discussing whether racism is real.

Also, I'm pretty sure not everyone in this thread who has commented is white.
 
crandc said:
Am I the only one who finds it both laughable AND sad to see a bunch of white males sitting at home discussing whether racism is a real thing?
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Are you including those of us who are arguing that it does exist, or just those who are arguing whether or not it exists?

Because the two are not really not the same. One is an ally towards ending racism and sexism and bigotry, and the other is arguing that there isn't much racism, sexism or bigotry.

Seems silly to be throwing an ally under the bus like that.
 
Minstrel said:
That was obviously just a typo, he meant "bus." He was clearly referring to a Lakers player, LeBron James, who routinely throws teammates under the bus.
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It was a subliminal message
 
In a strange turn of events, @ABM is my parents, so much so I'm unsure I could detect the difference in worldview between them. This leads to a mixture of incredulity and utter disgust that I think most of you feel, but also a sense of compassion. I'll have you know, ABM that after every conversation I have with my parents, I have to decompress and unload the madness onto someone else. Your posts can have a similar effect. It's jarring...

My parents too have black friends from church, who would rather just be called black and think a father in the house might just do the trick. The call the protests riots. See the looters over the message. They guide their outlook on these conversations. If we start discussing race, my mother will cry and talk about all of god's children or how she loves everyone. However, they somehow do not feel offended by the literal demagogue in office. They/you are what Trump calls the "silent majority." Not racist? Things just don't line up.

Let me illustrate just how off things can be. My mother said something, like you have, about race relations being worse after Obama (that statement alone! for the love of christ!). Soon we were talking about how the south seethed at having a black president. My father said southerners (which they are) often called him derogatory things. Like openly. My mother says she didn't even think of him as black, "I mean, everyone calls him black. But he is white too. Why don't people call him white? Why is it always black?"

Now, wow. She is from the south and yet doesn't see how fucked it has been for blacks over the years? Between slavery and Jim Crow and on and on and on. There are categories describing to what degree black people are, words that mean 1/4 black or 3/4 black 1/4 white and so forth. Look it up. And there is of course the "one-drop rule." A single drop of black blood and you are a second-class citizen! And she is asking "Why don't people call him white"? The disconnect is incredible. It's embarrassing. And no amount of discussion has made a dent.

Willful ignorance? Repressed reality? I have no idea what's going on with people with your worldview, but I do know it's hard not to give up on you.
 
ABM said:
I've told people in here forever that these are matters of the heart. Hearts are changed one conversation, one experience, one act of love at a time. That's where the real solutions lie. Would I go downtown and get all up in people's faces in a protest? No, but I'd buy any one of my Black brothers lunch and spend a few hours in meaningful conversation, laughter, etc. As I mentioned to Minstrel, it's a grass roots thing to me. That's where effective changes emanates from. We can use terms such as "systemic", and all that, but I'm cool with living life inter-racially, as it were.
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Just curious......but how many “conversations” did St. Paul have on the road to Damascus and his “awakening”? I’d have to go back and read my Bible but I don’t remember much of any conversation other than God saying, “How do you like them apples?” when he knocked Paul off his horse and opened his eyes. Maybe you need a trip to Damascus......
 
I've always admired Morgan Freemen..born in the 30's, growing up very poor in the South. He overcame many obstacles.....including racism. I'm sure he is a hero to many.

Over the years, he's had a few things to say on the issue. There was this:

https://www.quora.com/Morgan-Freema...-black-man-and-white-man-Would-it-really-help

More recently, there was this...and I applaud the man for taking this approach from a leadership position. Thank you, Morgan!!

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/06/09/morgan-freeman-black-lives-matter-social-media-campaign/

I've posted this video in here before, so there's this side of him. You could say, sure, he's 1%er, living life large, and all that. But, remember, this is a man who overcame. Let me repeat...OVERCAME his obstacles, and has now succeeded far beyond what all of us in here could only imagine to accomplish.

 
Propagandist said:
Willful ignorance? Repressed reality? I have no idea what's going on with people with your worldview, but I do know it's hard not to give up on you.
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It's all good. You have a lot of work to do, my friend. :)
 
ABM said:
Yes, but didn't Obama relate those similar sentiments during his two terms in office? I'm not certain, but it seemed to me things were worse at the end of his terms.
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Worse? What was worse? Things have never been worse than right now. We have Covid and racism and no leadership and unemployment. Worse under Obama?
 
ABM said:
I've always admired Morgan Freemen..born in the 30's, growing up very poor in the South. He overcame many obstacles.....including racism. I'm sure he is a hero to many.

Over the years, he's had a few things to say on the issue. There was this:

https://www.quora.com/Morgan-Freema...-black-man-and-white-man-Would-it-really-help

More recently, there was this...and I applaud the man for taking this approach from a leadership position. Thank you, Morgan!!

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/06/09/morgan-freeman-black-lives-matter-social-media-campaign/

I've posted this video in here before, so there's this side of him. You could say, sure, he's 1%er, living life large, and all that. But, remember, this is a man who overcame. Let me repeat...OVERCAME his obstacles, and has now succeeded far beyond what all of us in here could only imagine to accomplish.

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Is there a point here? Is this showing systemic racism or the lack of? Or you just like posting videos of black people?
 
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