Notice Blazers draft Greg Brown!

[Sheldon Shape]

but you did piggy-back onto Scalma's posts blaming Stotts for lack of player-development

* I was curious so I looked at Trent's rookie year, using your gauge of 6 minutes. Trent had 5 games of over 6 minutes that season. In those 5 games, Trent went 2-16 on FG's, 1-8 on three's, had 1 assist, 1 rebound, and 2 turnovers. Nothing he did in those games said 'play me more'

* Simons was similar in those 'more-than-6-minutes' opportunities (6 games). He didn't shoot as poorly as Trent, but he didn't shoot that well either. Both of those guys played all 48 minutes in that weird final game of the season, but I didn't add those numbers.

In the case of Trent & Simons, I can't tell if those game were consecutive minutes but that was kind of the way Stotts would roll

* Nassir got opportunity as a rookie. He started 5 games; had 29 games of over 10 minutes and 11 games over 15 minutes

* Jake Layman had 11 games of over 8 minutes as a rookie

* Will Barton had 50 games of over 6 minutes as a rookie when he also started 5 games; 23 games of over 15 minutes, and 13 games of over 20 minutes.

I think the 'narrative' that Stotts didn't play rookies is really a narrative of 'Stotts didn't play the rookies I want to see as much as I wanted to see them'. And the feeling seems to have made the memory foggy of past rookies. I thought Trent looked shitty as a rookie and Simons wasn't much better. Same for Layman. Barton and Little looked a lot better in my view and surprise! those are the two rookies who got a lot more burn. Moses looked lost

I'd also think we should credit a coaching staff for basing some of their rotation choices for rookies on practice, and that's something we don't see

I don't think this gives the full picture. These guys are rookies so most of us are expecting them to be rough out the gate. But to sacrifice their development for the likes of Anthony Tolliver and Mario Hezonja is horseshit and tells you why Stotts was so awful in his rotation making.

 

[PCmor7]

Here is what the "average scout" said about Brown before the draft:

Greg Brown, 6-9 freshman forward, Texas. “He’s sexy, but I just can’t tell you what he does. He shoots 3s or dunks, that’s it. No skill, no feel for the game. His interview was very disappointing. If he buys into being defensive-minded and using his athleticism as a shot-blocker, he could wind up having a place in our league. He gets too caught up in being a wing. He rebounds a little bit. I’m guessing he goes second round but there’s a lot of buyer beware with him. You’ve got to have a really strong assistant or player development guy to work with him.”

Having watched him in SL, I think that's about right. Good thing we hired all those development coaches.

I wonder what they thought was so bad about his interview. I watched several interviews with him and always found him to be fairly grounded and well-spoken. Seemed like he had a lot of relatives who were successful athletes who helped develop his mindset.

The other thing about that scouting report is that he gets too caught up in being a wing. I didn't see that in summer league. It almost seems like a guy evaluating on a 10-year-old formula that he's 6-9 so he should be playing close to the basket. I thought his shot looked a lot better in Vegas than it did at Texas. But we don't criticize Jerami Grant and Michael Porter Jr. for being 6-9 and haven't a lot of their offense predicated on their perimeter game. I don't even think Brown was nearly as pigeon-holed at playing the wing than those guys.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I wonder what they thought was so bad about his interview. I watched several interviews with him and always found him to be fairly grounded and well-spoken. Seemed like he had a lot of relatives who were successful athletes who helped develop his mindset.

The other thing about that scouting report is that he gets too caught up in being a wing. I didn't see that in summer league. It almost seems like a guy evaluating on a 10-year-old formula that he's 6-9 so he should be playing close to the basket. I thought his shot looked a lot better in Vegas than it did at Texas. But we don't criticize Jerami Grant and Michael Porter Jr. for being 6-9 and haven't a lot of their offense predicated on their perimeter game. I don't even think Brown was nearly as pigeon-holed at playing the wing than those guys.

His basketball IQ seems really good for someone who is supposed to be such a project. I expect him to be a major contributor in the league.

 

[PCmor7]

His basketball IQ seems really good for someone who is supposed to be such a project. I expect him to be a major contributor in the league.

I've seen guys who turned out to be really good players ... even really good rookies ... who were nowhere near at his level in their first summer league.

TBF, probably a lot of little things he needs to learn that I wasn't watching, but he never looked overmatched or like he wasn't sure he belonged. Took good shots. Didn't commit bad turnovers. Didn't commit stupid fouls. Hustled. Helped defensively. I don't know what's not to like.

 

[Natebishop3]

Here is what the "average scout" said about Brown before the draft:

Greg Brown, 6-9 freshman forward, Texas. “He’s sexy, but I just can’t tell you what he does. He shoots 3s or dunks, that’s it. No skill, no feel for the game. His interview was very disappointing. If he buys into being defensive-minded and using his athleticism as a shot-blocker, he could wind up having a place in our league. He gets too caught up in being a wing. He rebounds a little bit. I’m guessing he goes second round but there’s a lot of buyer beware with him. You’ve got to have a really strong assistant or player development guy to work with him.”

Having watched him in SL, I think that's about right. Good thing we hired all those development coaches.

I feel like you just described Simons..... except for the dunking part. He never dunks in games. His development hasn't gone so well so that's concerning for Brown.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

but you did piggy-back onto Scalma's posts blaming Stotts for lack of player-development

I responded to Scalma's post, but mine was solely about what I'd like to see, nothing about complaints about the past. Any interpolation of others' complaints into my post is nothing more than a poor inference.

 

[Scalma]

That scout that said he had no feel for the game is an absolute moron. His defensive instincts were evident from the first game. Doubt that just developed out of nowhere.

 

[RR7]

 

[MickZagger]

I've seen guys who turned out to be really good players ... even really good rookies ... who were nowhere near at his level in their first summer league.

TBF, probably a lot of little things he needs to learn that I wasn't watching, but he never looked overmatched or like he wasn't sure he belonged. Took good shots. Didn't commit bad turnovers. Didn't commit stupid fouls. Hustled. Helped defensively. I don't know what's not to like.

Yep. I remember Batum being a disaster in the Summer league. SL is no indication of a players prospectus. It’s rat ball

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't think this gives the full picture. These guys are rookies so most of us are expecting them to be rough out the gate. But to sacrifice their development for the likes of Anthony Tolliver and Mario Hezonja is horseshit and tells you why Stotts was so awful in his rotation making.

* Trent averaged 22 minutes over 61 games; Simons averaged 21 minutes over 70 games

* Tolliver averaged 17 minutes over 33 games; Hezonja averaged 16 minutes over 53 games

* Trent & Simons totaled 2781 minutes; Hezonja and Tolliver totaled 1425 minutes

* Trent & Simons are guards; Hezonja and Tolliver were forwards pressed into extra duty when Zach went down in the 3rd game

I don't see anything there indicating that Hezonja and Tolliver took any development minutes from Trent & Simons. That notion looks fictitious. If anybody took any minutes away it was Bazemore. However, Bazemore, Hezonja, and Tolliver were all added to the team by Olshey, and he actually talked about how valuable they would be as veterans.

 

[wizenheimer]

I responded to Scalma's post, but mine was solely about what I'd like to see, nothing about complaints about the past. Any interpolation of others' complaints into my post is nothing more than a poor inference.

well, that's really surprising because I always make nearly perfect inferences. Might want to check you inferometer

 

[Scalma]

fire.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Yep. I remember Batum being a disaster in the Summer league. SL is no indication of a players prospectus. It’s rat ball

Speaking for myself only, I would LOVE to have Greg on my rat ball team!

 

[Driew]

Nice video on what happened to Greg Brown to drop to a second round pick:

Really excited to see how Billups works him in on the second unit during the season for defense. He's got some pretty good defensive instincts. He reminds me of a young Batum who started for us his rookie season.

 

[PCmor7]

Yep. I remember Batum being a disaster in the Summer league. SL is no indication of a players prospectus. It’s rat ball

He was the first player to come to mind.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Nice video on what happened to Greg Brown to drop to a second round pick:

Really excited to see how Billups works him in on the second unit during the season for defense. He's got some pretty good defensive instincts. He reminds me of a young Batum who started for us his rookie season.

Yeh, that was a good review. I always like when they show the good and bad plays. Guy did say that his defense improved as the season went on. If I was him I would focus on D and shooting threes, looking to cut for dunks or lobs. Also work on getting stronger and being a better rebounder. I wouldn't want him driving much unless he saw a wide open lane. It did look like he left the bench and went to the locker room once when he got pulled from a game.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

* Trent averaged 22 minutes over 61 games; Simons averaged 21 minutes over 70 games

* Tolliver averaged 17 minutes over 33 games; Hezonja averaged 16 minutes over 53 games

* Trent & Simons totaled 2781 minutes; Hezonja and Tolliver totaled 1425 minutes

* Trent & Simons are guards; Hezonja and Tolliver were forwards pressed into extra duty when Zach went down in the 3rd game

I don't see anything there indicating that Hezonja and Tolliver took any development minutes from Trent & Simons. That notion looks fictitious. If anybody took any minutes away it was Bazemore. However, Bazemore, Hezonja, and Tolliver were all added to the team by Olshey, and he actually talked about how valuable they would be as veterans.

Tolliver took minutes from Little. So did Hezonja.

 

[wizenheimer]

Tolliver took minutes from Little. So did Hezonja.

so did Ariza, and so did Zach, and so did Melo

 

[Sheldon Shape]

so did Ariza, and so did Zach, and so did Melo

Huh? There's an argument to be had that those guys should play in front of Little. What argument Stotts would have for playing Tolliver or Hezonja in front of Little?

God only knows. And, I don't even believe in him.

 

[Scalma]

Nice video on what happened to Greg Brown to drop to a second round pick:

Really excited to see how Billups works him in on the second unit during the season for defense. He's got some pretty good defensive instincts. He reminds me of a young Batum who started for us his rookie season.

I like the Isaac comp.

 

[wizenheimer]

Huh? There's an argument to be had that those guys should play in front of Little. What argument Stotts would have for playing Tolliver or Hezonja in front of Little?

God only knows. And, I don't even believe in him.

I mean, that season, Tolliver & Hezonja had better TS%, reb rates, assist rates, & BPM than Little...the truth is all three were quite bad. And of course, Trent & Simons were only in their 2nd years and got plenty of consistent minutes.

I think there are plenty of reasons to criticize Stotts, but Little's playing time as a rookie seem a long ways down the list

by the way, Little started 5 games as a rookie, and these were the minutes he played over a 16 game stretch in Nov. & Dec:

18:44
6:36
5:50
22:44
31:50
29:12
22:32
16:37
12:48
17:08
10:13
10:55
16:07
12:05
10:55
12:14
11:26

then he got injured and missed several games, came back, and averaged around 10 minutes over a dozen game stretch. Then played these games before another injury:

20:26
14:30
11:56
18:28
11:14
12:56
19:24

and came back from that injury to log these minutes:

17:33
7:22
11:27
11:39
10:11
8:07
3:21

before yet another injury ended his season a few games before the bubble. I'm just not seeing him buried on the bench like you imply, and I'm also remembering that he was very undependable in terms of staying healthy

 

[LayneStaley]

I have a strong positive feeling about GB3. Him and Nas could end up making a pretty nice Front-court for years to come.

Elleby sucks though.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I mean, that season, Tolliver & Hezonja had better TS%, reb rates, assist rates, & BPM than Little...the truth is all three were quite bad. And of course, Trent & Simons were only in their 2nd years and got plenty of consistent minutes.

I think there are plenty of reasons to criticize Stotts, but Little's playing time as a rookie seem a long ways down the list

by the way, Little started 5 games as a rookie, and these were the minutes he played over a 16 game stretch in Nov. & Dec:

18:44
6:36
5:50
22:44
31:50
29:12
22:32
16:37
12:48
17:08
10:13
10:55
16:07
12:05
10:55
12:14
11:26

then he got injured and missed several games, came back, and averaged around 10 minutes over a dozen game stretch. Then played these games before another injury:

20:26
14:30
11:56
18:28
11:14
12:56
19:24

and came back from that injury to log these minutes:

17:33
7:22
11:27
11:39
10:11
8:07
3:21

before yet another injury ended his season a few games before the bubble. I'm just not seeing him buried on the bench like you imply, and I'm also remembering that he was very undependable in terms of staying healthy

It's not that complicated. Compare his minutes to Tolliver and Hezonja. DNPs. Usage. Etc. It's not enough to give a player minutes as it is to actually develop them. Little was told to stay in the corner ala every other small forward we had.

 

[BBert]

Assume nothing. We have no idea how Billups plans to manage the roster. For all we know, he believes in periodically giving developing players relevant minutes.

Madness. Madness I say!

 

[mook]

It's a pretty good design but it could be great. My attempt.

 

[STOMP]

If I was him I would focus on D and shooting threes, looking to cut for dunks or lobs.

If I were advising him, I'd tell him he needs a complete reworking of of the mechanics of his jumper and to start that process today. Doing so would take at least a season but adding a reasonable outside threat to his arsenal would increase his earning potential over the next 10+ years exponentially. Does he want to sit or play?

STOMP

 

[Pinwheel1]

If I were advising him, I'd tell him he needs a complete reworking of of the mechanics of his jumper and to start that process today. Doing so would take at least a season but adding a reasonable outside threat to his arsenal would increase his earning potential over the next 10+ years exponentially. Does he want to sit or play?

STOMP

Yeah, that hitch needs to go away. A lot of players are still successful with it but he is young still so I would hope they can get rid of it.
With a dependable 3pt shot, Brown can become, at the very least, a really good 3 &D player. Which is how he will see action the soonest.
The other offensive skills might take a little longer to develop. Either way without injures to the team, his minutes will be limited this year.

He also needs to gain about 10 lbs of muscle to play SF and 20 lbs to play PF, which should not be too hard to do overtime.

 

[tlongII]

I think Brown's future is at the 4. We don't really have a 4 on the team so the spot is wide open. I think he has the length and athleticism to play there. We'll see how it goes.

 

[wizenheimer]

It's not that complicated. Compare his minutes to Tolliver and Hezonja. DNPs. Usage. Etc. It's not enough to give a player minutes as it is to actually develop them. Little was told to stay in the corner ala every other small forward we had.

I don't really disagree completely with your argument about Little. He probably should have got a little more burn considering how poorly Tolliver and Hezonja played. I do think him getting injured 4 different times that kept him out of the lineup for 1/3 of the season had quite a lot to do with his inconsistent minutes. If he hadn't been in street clothes in the bubble when Ariza sat out he could have, and probably would have, played quite a bit

but you seem to be arguing that Little's rookie season shows that Stotts wouldn't play rookies when they were the better alternatives than what else was available. I think you'd have a weak argument for other rookies in the Stolshey era that prove Little was 'victim' of a rule rather than an exception. For example, in the rookie seasons of Trent and Simons, not only did Dame and CJ stand in the way of minutes, so did Hood, Curry, Turner, Harkless, and Layman. And yes, you have to account for SF minutes because if you couldn't slide Trent into some of those, than both Trent and Simons were competing for the same limited minutes at SG

Stotts had plenty of flaws as a coach and probably should have been fired after the Pels series...if the Blazers had a GM worth anything. But in the list of sins for a head coach, a preference for veteran consistency over rookie inconsistency is a sin just about every coach has. If Mike Dunleavy hadn't been such a sinner, Portland could have spent a decade with Jermaine O'Neal as the starting center. Another example is Rick Adelman; about the only rookie he trusted was Cliff Robinson. Drazen Petrovic, Robert Pack, and Tracy Murray all got the same treatment as rookies Stotts gave Little

 

[riverman]

I think Brown's future is at the 4. We don't really have a 4 on the team so the spot is wide open. I think he has the length and athleticism to play there. We'll see how it goes.

Roco is a 4