Blazers interested in OG Anunoby?

[SharpesTriumph]

Yep. Grant and OG aren't the difference makers (tho I'm not sure there are difference makers available, that wouldn't decimate the team in acquiring).

They could be helpful to the team, but honestly outside of Dame (and *maybe* Simons could become that in time) there isn't really another legit star on the team.

Some potential, but not a lot yet.

Yeah, so we can aim to trade away a bunch of our youth and picks with the hope if everything goes right and the team is healthy the Blazers might be able to have a DameCJ 2.0 roster.

Well done Cronin!

 

[SharpesTriumph]

sure....the Raymond Felton Kaleb Canales lock out season...and that was boring as fuck..worst team I've watched..no reason to go there now...we don't even have a team yet but I like what we're doing...I've been a fan for 45 years so I cheer...plenty of armchair critics ready to melt down around here....I'm not one of them generally. If I didn't like this team for the last ten years it'd be pretty dumb to keep following them eh?...they say misery loves company...I'm not one of those guys when it comes to basketball...politics, sure but sports are for entertainment

So you felt that way in the summer of 2011 before Felton ever played a game for the Blazers?

I certainly felt that during the season, and when Crawford was asking the Blazers to acquire him as a Blazer in a Blazers game. But there were quite a few fans back in the summer harping on Andre Millers deficiencies after he was traded and hopeful of the roster changes.

 

[Mediocre Man]

That was the giant problem with the Clippers trade; it put the Blazers in this current position of having lost their starters, with no means to easily replace them, no assets to bring in better starters, and no good youth or picks to rebuild. Could Norm have been part of a package to get a useful wing player in the trade market? Maybe or maybe not... but certainly Eric Bledsoe and scrubs are even worse.

The Clippers trade was just a dumb loss of talent, with only delusional fans who wanted change for the sake of change supporting it. Now the Blazers are looking to burn up their future young assets to improve the team to at best exactly what it was before the Clippers trade. This probably ends with the Blazers trading Dame in the next 6-18 months for shit value and having one of the worst rosters with the worst futures in the NBA.

It's just totally beyond depressing. Its crazy that there are so many blind Blazer homers and Olshey pitchfork posters here supporting this franchises continued stupid decisions.

The Clippers trade brought us Winslow and The 21st pick in that years draft, ALONG with a $$$$ asset in EBNGC. Powell and RoCo led the Clippers to a play in loss.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yep. Grant and OG aren't the difference makers (tho I'm not sure there are difference makers available, that wouldn't decimate the team in acquiring).

They could be helpful to the team, but honestly outside of Dame (and *maybe* Simons could become that in time) there isn't really another legit star on the team.

Some potential, but not a lot yet.

Yes. I like both OG and Grant. They are nice forwards to have, but we need a star. Unless some team has a player that fits Dame’s skill set, is a star and want out, the draft is the only way to POSSIBLY get one

 

[riverman]

So you felt that way in the summer of 2011 before Felton ever played a game for the Blazers?

I certainly felt that during the season, and when Crawford was asking the Blazers to acquire him as a Blazer in a Blazers game. But there were quite a few fans back in the summer harping on Andre Millers deficiencies after he was traded and hopeful of the roster changes.

you know what I meant...but yeah...I never liked that season....when Roy, Oden checked out and they fired Nate but I am a huge Andre Miller fan so that doesn't fly with me....Roy and Dre didn't have good chemistry. They traded Dre to make Roy happy then he bailed saying he wanted to play with his kids and his knees couldn't take it then to sign a two year deal with the Wolves...nothing about that season did I like.....so literally, not before the season started because I still had a thread of hope Roy and Oden would play. That doesn't matter but if you're looking for a disgruntled Blazer fan, I'm not your guy...I also don't really care how many fans didn't like Dre...that's not how I percieve the team, through other people's reactions...I have my own

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The Clippers trade brought us Winslow and The 21st pick in that years draft, ALONG with a $$$$ asset in EBNGC. Powell and RoCo led the Clippers to a play in loss.

Eric Bledsoe contract has to be guaranteed to trade, so its not an asset, its a liability. It would be better to have Roco expiring deal, or even nothing than Eric Bledsoe's contract. You are correct in that the Blazers got shit return for two starters, and now are likely sending out more youth/assets to get that same starting talent back this summer.

This is horrible roster construction. But it is sake for the sake of change that some Neil pitchfork crowds desire.

 

[julius]

Yes. I like both OG and Grant. They are nice forwards to have, but we need a star. Unless some team has a player that fits Dame’s skill set, is a star and want out, the draft is the only way to POSSIBLY get one

Trading FOR those players isn't horrible, just not at the cost of the #7 pick.

Doesn't mean that 7th pick is a sure thing, but we already know what Grant is and OG isn't all the sudden going to blossom into more than a 3rd tier player. Dyson, Sharpe, Murray or who knows, could slip to that spot. Each have the potential to be better than Grant or OG, imho.

 

[riverman]

Eric Bledsoe contract has to be guaranteed to trade, so its not an asset, its a liability. It would be better to have Roco expiring deal, or even nothing than Eric Bledsoe's contract. You are correct in that the Blazers got shit return for two starters, and now are likely sending out more youth/assets to get that same starting talent back this summer.

This is horrible roster construction. But it is sake for the sake of change that some Neil pitchfork crowds desire.

Roco would have walked for nothing like Lamarcus did....we didn't have Roco leverage unless I missed something....we could have brought him back but the Clips signed him after the playoff loss...he was unrestricted free agent if I remember correctly...Roco got benched and his last game for us shot 0-8.......no great loss there. He didn't fit Chauncey's system

 

[SharpesTriumph]

you know what I meant...but yeah...I never liked that season....when Roy, Oden checked out and they fired Nate but I am a huge Andre Miller fan so that doesn't fly with me....Roy and Dre didn't have good chemistry. They traded Dre to make Roy happy then he bailed saying he wanted to play with his kids and his knees couldn't take it then to sign a two year deal with the Wolves...nothing about that season did I like.....so literally, not before the season started because I still had a thread of hope Roy and Oden would play. That doesn't matter but if you're looking for a disgruntled Blazer fan, I'm not your guy...I also don't really care how many fans didn't like Dre...that's not how I percieve the team, through other people's reactions...I have my own

That is what I suspected. I appreciate your optimism as a Blazers fan and many years I am right there with you happily rooting for the team.

I'm not there this off-season, I'm way over on the other end. I enjoy seeing your optimism. However if I want an unbiased assessment of the Blazers future I don't believe your opinion is helpful, as you want to support and root and cheer and celebrate the good with the team. Sometimes moves the team makes are stupid and can accurately be judged as such. I enjoy having a realistic assessment of the future direction of the franchise.

 

[riverman]

Trading FOR those players isn't horrible, just not at the cost of the #7 pick.

Doesn't mean that 7th pick is a sure thing, but we already know what Grant is and OG isn't all the sudden going to blossom into more than a 3rd tier player. Dyson, Sharpe, Murray or who knows, could slip to that spot. Each have the potential to be better than Grant or OG, imho.

I remember how big I was on TRob when Sac drafted him ahead of Dame..I'd have taken him over Dame then..then you have Adam Morrison who was supposed to be a franchise star guard...yeah..draft isn't always going to pan out.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Roco would have walked for nothing like Lamarcus did....we didn't have Roco leverage unless I missed something....we could have brought him back but the Clips signed him after the playoff loss...he was unrestricted free agent if I remember correctly...Roco got benched and his last game for us shot 0-8.......no great loss there. He didn't fit Chauncey's system

That is possible. But we don't know how the season would have ended, what offers other teams would give him, how he would judge a fresh season of the Blazers, or what would be available from him in a sign and trade. If he just walked he would have more value than Eric Bledsoe. But its possible his value would have exceeded that.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Trading FOR those players isn't horrible, just not at the cost of the #7 pick.

Doesn't mean that 7th pick is a sure thing, but we already know what Grant is and OG isn't all the sudden going to blossom into more than a 3rd tier player. Dyson, Sharpe, Murray or who knows, could slip to that spot. Each have the potential to be better than Grant or OG, imho.

Yeah if we get Grant and OG for second round picks I'd flip my tune and vote for Cronin as executive of the year.

The scary concern is the rhetoric from Cronin/Dame, as well as reports of what we are considering trading the #7 pick for, and Cronin's history of shit value at the deadline.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Trading FOR those players isn't horrible, just not at the cost of the #7 pick.

Doesn't mean that 7th pick is a sure thing, but we already know what Grant is and OG isn't all the sudden going to blossom into more than a 3rd tier player. Dyson, Sharpe, Murray or who knows, could slip to that spot. Each have the potential to be better than Grant or OG, imho.

I’m all for adding both. Just not for 7 or Ant

 

[julius]

I remember how big I was on TRob when Sac drafted him ahead of Dame..I'd have taken him over Dame then..then you have Adam Morrison who was supposed to be a franchise star guard...yeah..draft isn't always going to pan out.

Yep, that's the concern.

 

[julius]

Yeah if we get Grant and OG for second round picks I'd flip my tune and vote for Cronin as executive of the year.

The scary concern is the rhetoric from Cronin/Dame, as well as reports of what we are considering trading the #7 pick for, and Cronin's history of shit value at the deadline.

His "history of shit value" at the deadline doesn't match fans unrealistic values of the players he traded.

 

[riverman]

That is possible. But we don't know how the season would have ended, what offers other teams would give him, how he would judge a fresh season of the Blazers, or what would be available from him in a sign and trade. If he just walked he would have more value than Eric Bledsoe. But its possible his value would have exceeded that.

look at the previous year ....Norm and Roco were part of us getting bounced in the first round....and they got bounced in the first round with the Clips.....Joe knows what he's doing.

 

[damianlillard]

His "history of shit value" at the deadline doesn't match fans unrealistic values of the players he traded.

Uhh…Joe admitted to leaving better deals on the table so he could send our players to teams that they wanted to play on. We know what they are worth, and they are worth a hell lot more than shit

 

[julius]

Uhh…Joe admitted to leaving better deals on the table so he could send our players to teams that they wanted to play on. We know what they are worth, and they are worth a hell lot more than shit

link?

Because better deals that take on salary which the team didn't want, or didn't really improve the team, isn't the same as "joe admitted" to shit.

 

[illmatic99]

His "history of shit value" at the deadline doesn't match fans unrealistic values of the players he traded.

unrealistic value?

CHI is getting more from us in the Larry Nance trade in 2021 than we got back from NO for CJ AND Nance in 2022. We essentially salary dumped both of them for Josh Hart + savings for Jody + the 2025 Milwaukee pick.

that's the definition of "shit value."

 

[julius]

unrealistic value?

CHI is getting more from us in the Larry Nance trade in 2021 than we got back from NO for CJ AND Nance in 2022. We essentially salary dumped both of them for Josh Hart + savings for Jody + the 2025 Milwaukee pick.

that's the definition of "shit value."

You consider Derrick Jones Jr more than Josh hart?

The Blazers traded Derrick Jones Jr + a conditional 1st round pick (which they didn't get so far) for Nance.

Nance is injury prone and a mediocre player. So yes, the Blazers overpaid for him in the sense they gave up a future 1st, but Jones Jr is worse than Nance is.

CJ wasn't worth his salary (still isn't). You're also forgetting that the team used the assets they got from the CJ/Hart trade to also get Hughes and Ingles (yippy) and a 22 2nd round pick and a TE.

So it wasn't just Josh Hart + savings and a pick.

It was Josh Hart, Didi, Hughes, Ingles (contract), a 22 2nd round pick and the 25 1st round pick.

 

[illmatic99]

So it wasn't just Josh Hart + savings and a pick.

It was Josh Hart, Didi, Hughes, Ingles (contract), a 22 2nd round pick and the 25 1st round pick.

Let's be clear when you say 22 2nd round pick. That's the 57th pick in this draft.

You think anything of note will materialize from that pick, Ingles (FA who is coming off an ACL at age 34) and Didi?

That is like... nothing.

 

[julius]

Let's be clear when you say 22 2nd round pick. That's the 57th pick in this draft.

You think anything of note will materialize from that pick, Ingles (FA who is coming off an ACL at age 34) and Didi?

That is like... nothing.

the team got for CJ what he was worth. They got out of his anchor contract, and have trade-able assets.

So on the one hand, we bitch when the team overpays for a player, but then also bitch when they get "less" talent back.

Still standing by your claim that the Bulls got a better deal for Nance than what the Blazers did for Nance + CJ?

 

[illmatic99]

Still standing by your claim that the Bulls got a better deal for Nance than what the Blazers did for Nance + CJ?

of course. not sure why i should deviate from that thinking.

Edit: not to belabor the point. I tried to let this stuff go but it's funny to me to read people still rationalize those deals as good. Joe has a lot to prove in my mind. We have no choice but to let him try.

 

[julius]

of course. not sure why i should deviate from that thinking.

Edit: not to belabor the point. I tried to let this stuff go but it's funny to me to read people still rationalize those deals as good. Joe has a lot to prove in my mind. We have no choice but to let him try.

I don't think it's that it's a "good" trade, it's that you're way over valuing Jones Jr and a future pick.

And Nance was and is a bum. So yes, Portland overpaid, but CJ and Nance is still a lot of bad money being sent out. God bless the Pelicans for paying him another 68 million dollars so he can hog the ball, not play defense, and more often than not, be a non factor when it counts.

 

[illmatic99]

I don't think it's that it's a "good" trade, it's that you're way over valuing Jones Jr and a future pick.

And Nance was and is a bum. So yes, Portland overpaid, but CJ and Nance is still a lot of bad money being sent out. God bless the Pelicans for paying him another 68 million dollars so he can hog the ball, not play defense, and more often than not, be a non factor when it counts.

i don't think the Pels are complaining one bit. But this is certainly YOUR viewpoint.

 

[julius]

i don't think the Pels are complaining one bit. But this is certainly YOUR viewpoint.

They've had him for what, 30 games?

I'm sure after CJ's first 30 games (as a starter) there weren't many complaints. But wait until he goes MeJ, and plays his Ole defense.

 

[wizenheimer]

Yes Dame has primarily been used as a ball dominant PG, but I sure do wish the staff would take a page from how the Warriors use Steph. The Warriors diversify their attack with consistent ball movement running Curry off of a bazillion picks instead of just high pick and roll isos. Because Curry is such a perimeter threat, teams have to jump the picks effectively doubling him off the ball leaving the rest of his teammates 4 on 3. With this gravitational pull taking defenders off the ball away from the paint, teammates get consistent wide open 3pt looks & clear paths to the hoop for backdoor cuts & dunks. Of course it helps to have other guys who're playmakers like Green and Iguadala to take advantage of this...

STOMP

Warriors have been successful at running Curry off the ball for a couple of reasons. The secondary reason is they have a good system of screens and picks and off-ball motion. But the primary reason is because the Warriors have had excellent facilitators. They've had Draymond, and Iggy, and Livingston, and Durant. Mainly it's been Draymond, but their other passers have been better than anybody Dame has played with since Batum and Steve Blake. Even Jordan Poole is as good, or better, than anybody Dame has played with and that includes CJ

the X's & O's work for the Warriors because they've had the Jimmy's and Joe's to execute the schemes. Olshey tried to cheap-screw the passing Jimmy's with Evan Turner and Mario Hezonja....abject failure. Since the Aldridge team, running Dame off the ball only guaranteed one thing: he wasn't going to get the ball when he was open

 

[riverman]

Warriors have been successful at running Curry off the ball for a couple of reasons. The secondary reason is they have a good system of screens and picks and off-ball motion. But the primary reason is because the Warriors have had excellent facilitators. They've had Draymond, and Iggy, and Livingston, and Durant. Mainly it's been Draymond, but their other passers have been better than anybody Dame has played with since Batum and Steve Blake. Even Jordan Poole is as good, or better, than anybody Dame has played with and that includes CJ

the X's & O's work for the Warriors because they've had the Jimmy's and Joe's to execute the schemes. Olshey tried to cheap-screw the passing Jimmy's with Evan Turner and Mario Hezonja....abject failure. Since the Aldridge team, running Dame off the ball only guaranteed one thing: he wasn't going to get the ball when he was open

The one thing I'd add to this is Mason Plumlee....he was a really good passer that played with Dame. He wasn't a guard but his passing was really good

 

[SharpesTriumph]

the team got for CJ what he was worth. They got out of his anchor contract, and have trade-able assets.

So on the one hand, we bitch when the team overpays for a player, but then also bitch when they get "less" talent back.

Still standing by your claim that the Bulls got a better deal for Nance than what the Blazers did for Nance + CJ?

Every trade in the history of the NBA was for equal value. The players a team received back were always exactly what those players were worth.

There has never been a bad trade or a good trade in the NBA, all trades perfectly and fairly compensate each team with equal value.

The NBA trade market is 100% efficient every time.

A GM never buys high or low, and never sells low or high on a player. The GM always trades a player at the perfect moment in time.

Every GM has equal negotiation skills.

Every GM always selects the maximum return.

We know this because what a player is traded for is what the player was traded for. Thus its always perfectly fair and of equal value every time.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

They've had him for what, 30 games?

I'm sure after CJ's first 30 games (as a starter) there weren't many complaints. But wait until he goes MeJ, and plays his Ole defense.

The same criticisms can be applied to Dame, right?