Blazers make another pitch for Amare?

[crowTrobot]

Untouchable. For Stoudemire?

absolutely. stoudemire isn't worth that much to non-contenders with limited budgets.

 

[Pinwheel1]

That's exactly what I thought.

I see the logic with what you guys are saying. But when is the trade deadline? I don't think you get the best value in a couple of days. KP may move quick, but I am not sure his trading partners can.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I see the logic with what you guys are saying. But when is the trade deadline? I don't think you get the best value in a couple of days. KP may move quick, but I am not sure his trading partners can.

But Pritch probably has been all over this for the last couple of weeks. He should know exactly what Stoudemire's value is. In fact, if this is true, he's likely trying to orchestrate the involvement of a 3rd team to get this all done in one fell swoop.

 

[barfo]

I see the logic with what you guys are saying. But when is the trade deadline? I don't think you get the best value in a couple of days. KP may move quick, but I am not sure his trading partners can.

Well, I'd guess every GM in the league has already given some thought to what he would and wouldn't be willing to give up to get Amare, since the Suns have been shopping him.

I think the deadline is the 19th, Thursday. Probably 5pm eastern?

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm seriously wondering if we don't keep Amare though.

 

[Minstrel]

well, i'd guess every gm in the league has already given some thought to what he would and wouldn't be willing to give up to get amare, since the suns have been shopping him.

I think the deadline is the 19th, thursday. Probably 5pm eastern?

3 pm est.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I don't see there being anyway we keep Amare. He doesn't come across as a Nate-guy (appears to lack work ethic, doesn't play defense) and he doesn't exactly fit the culture of the team (didn't come out of a major college program, complains to the media, questionable past).

Note: Not sure about his past. I remember his Mother having financial problems but wasn't there legal problems he dealt with early on?

 

[TripTango]

but Shareef is Shareef

Anybody else remember this classic Wheels call after a Shareef bucket?

"There's a new Shareef in town... and his name is Abdur-Rahim!"

 

[MAS RipCity]

Roy/Amare..name me 5 other better duos in the L
Why would we trade him if we got him?

 

[Minstrel]

Roy/Amare..name me 5 other better duos in the L
Why would we trade him if we got him?

There are three reasons why I could see moving him on:

-If and when Oden establishes himself, it might cause friction with Amare, in the way he's bridled at Shaq becoming the featured big man for Phoenix
-There's a somewhat higher risk that he would leave via free agency than LMA
-He seems high maintenance and there's no real way to predict what might displease him in the future

Amare is a fantastic talent, but he's also a volatile one and might present a risk that Pritchard doesn't want to roll with long-term.

 

[yenniedn]

My philosophy on proposed trades in this forum is pretty simple: I'd take ANY of them because just about every one of the is so skewed in our favor it's absurd. So yes, give me just about any trade on here and we're good to go.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Maybe start Amare at Center?

Greg is developing but he's still a liability on both ends. If he's not picking up fouls he's jacking up some of the ugliest baby hooks. If he's not dunking it's a brick.

 

[Minstrel]

Greg is developing but he's still a liability on both ends.

No, he's not. His scoring efficiency is extremely good and he has one of the best rebound rates in the game. In addition he's a good passer. His defense is inconsistent...due to the fouls, it's currently the weakest part of his game. But when he doesn't foul, he's a defensive asset.

 

[Road Blocker]

If the Blazers are able to swing Amare for great talent, why wouldn't Phoenix just trade Amare straight for that talent or similar. I can't see Phoenix trying to get into a rebuilding type effort while Steve Nash is still on the roster.

 

[barfo]

If the Blazers are able to swing Amare for great talent, why wouldn't Phoenix just trade Amare straight for that talent or similar.

The theory is that the Suns want financial relief, not talent. Portland is in the best position to provide the financial help.

I can't see Phoenix trying to get into a rebuilding type effort while Steve Nash is still on the roster.

I don't understand that either. Why not dump Nash instead of, or in addition to, Amare?

barfo

 

[Денг Гордон]

The theory is that the Suns want financial relief, not talent. Portland is in the best position to provide the financial help.



I don't understand that either. Why not dump Nash instead of, or in addition to, Amare?

barfo

Oklahoma City is actually in the best position to offer financial relief. A Green, Sene, and Wilcox package is the best in terms of getting the Thunder as close as possible to being under the luxury tax. Then a package of Gooden, Thomas, and Simmons from the Bulls is the second best at achieving that goal. Lafrentz and Bayless is just third in regards to that.

 

[MickZagger]

Another interesting deal could be with Charlotte - sending Amare to them for Wallace and Augustin. I'd be all over this, in fact, I'd prefer this to any other deal. Not sure if Charlotte would do this though, out of fear that Amare wouldn't stick around.

Amare would be very familiar with Diaw and Bell. That chemistry could vault them into the Playoffs. They are only a couple of games out. We could sweeten the deal if necessary.

I really like Augustin's game. I think he has a more solid future than Bayless.

Thats the best proposal I've seen on here if we were to acquire Amare and trade him. I'm sure MJ would froth at the mouth to get Amare there. I'm thinking we'd have to package someone else (maybe Outlaw) if we were going to get both Augustin and Wallace. But, I don't think Charlotte is as bad of a destination to NBA players as you think. The whole MJ, Nelly and Bob Johnson thing to go along with a hall of fame coach is more enticing then a lot of people think.

Imagine a lineup of:
PG- Augustin/Blake
SG- Roy/Rudy/Webster
SF- Wallace/Batum/Webster
PF- Aldridge/Frye/Diogu
C- Oden/Pryzbilla

That is a very young team that can win now and in the future. A lot of depth

 

[barfo]

Oklahoma City is actually in the best position to offer financial relief. A Green, Sene, and Wilcox package is the best in terms of getting the Thunder as close as possible to being under the luxury tax. Then a package of Gooden, Thomas, and Simmons from the Bulls is the second best at achieving that goal. Lafrentz and Bayless is just third in regards to that.

That's a rather interesting point of view. Would you care to back that up with some numbers?
Because as far as I can tell it is nonsense.

barfo

 

[Денг Гордон]

That's a rather interesting point of view. Would you care to back that up with some numbers?
Because as far as I can tell it is nonsense.

barfo

Drew Gooden, Tyrus Thomas, Cedric Simmons for Amare Stoudemire, Louis Amundson, and Matt Barnes.

Sheds $4.02 million off Phoenix's salary numbers for this season.

Jeff Green, Saer Sene, Chris Wilcox for Amare Stoudemire, Louis Amundson, and Matt Barnes.

Sheds $4.37 million off Phoenix's salary numbers for this season.

Raef Lafrentz and Jerryd Bayless for Amare Stoudemire and Goran Dragic.

Sheds $2.05 million off Phoenix's salary.

FWIW, Goran Dragic is the highest unwanted salary that the Sun's have. The Blazers have by my count 14 players on their roster. So they could only take one extra player back from the Suns, otherwise they'd have to cut somebody. The Suns, if they begin giving more players than they give up, will have to start signing players to make up the room.

For example, the most cap friendly trade that Portland could make is Lafrentz and Bayless for Amare Stoudemire, Goran Dragic, Matt Barnes, Louis Amundson, and Jared Dudley. That trade ends up shedding $4.87 million off of Phoenix's salary. The problem? Portland would have to cut a bunch of players before making the trade...and more importantly, after Phoenix signs all the players they will have to to get back to the minimum player threshold, it will be less attractive financially than the Thunder/Bulls trades.

And getting under the luxury tax this summer is the most important thing for Phoenix in terms of saving money, as not only will they no longer be paying the tax, but they will get to collect those tax revenues.

This is one of the flaws with a lot of peopel who have been covering the trade talks. They made up this false assumption that the bigger the expiring contract the better. But instead, the Bulls/Thunder packages are better, because they just barely work. They in base use the 125% trade exception to get Amare in, and then add on the minimum salary trade exception to bring Amundson and Barnes into the trade, allowing for less incoming salary for Phoenix.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=chd97z

 

[rocketeer]

Drew Gooden, Tyrus Thomas, Cedric Simmons for Amare Stoudemire, Louis Amundson, and Matt Barnes.

Sheds $4.02 million off Phoenix's salary numbers for this season.

Jeff Green, Saer Sene, Chris Wilcox for Amare Stoudemire, Louis Amundson, and Matt Barnes.

Sheds $4.37 million off Phoenix's salary numbers for this season.

Raef Lafrentz and Jerryd Bayless for Amare Stoudemire and Goran Dragic.

Sheds $2.05 million off Phoenix's salary.

FWIW, Goran Dragic is the highest unwanted salary that the Sun's have. The Blazers have by my count 14 players on their roster. So they could only take one extra player back from the Suns, otherwise they'd have to cut somebody. The Suns, if they begin giving more players than they give up, will have to start signing players to make up the room.

For example, the most cap friendly trade that Portland could make is Lafrentz and Bayless for Amare Stoudemire, Goran Dragic, Matt Barnes, Louis Amundson, and Jared Dudley. That trade ends up shedding $4.87 million off of Phoenix's salary. The problem? Portland would have to cut a bunch of players before making the trade...and more importantly, after Phoenix signs all the players they will have to to get back to the minimum player threshold, it will be less attractive financially than the Thunder/Bulls trades.

And getting under the luxury tax this summer is the most important thing for Phoenix in terms of saving money, as not only will they no longer be paying the tax, but they will get to collect those tax revenues.

This is one of the flaws with a lot of peopel who have been covering the trade talks. They made up this false assumption that the bigger the expiring contract the better. But instead, the Bulls/Thunder packages are better, because they just barely work. They in base use the 125% trade exception to get Amare in, and then add on the minimum salary trade exception to bring Amundson and Barnes into the trade, allowing for less incoming salary for Phoenix.

of course, you entirely disregarded alando tucker and falsely assume that matt barnes and louis amundson are guys that the suns want to trade.

and what exactly is the luxury tax set at this year? is it 71.15 mil(like wikipedia says)? espn's trade machine has the suns payroll at 75.76. so they'd have to cut 4.62 off their salary to get under the luxury tax. neither the trade with the thunder or the bulls that you propose does that. since none of those deals would get phoenix under the luxury tax anyway, if all they care about is the money, they'd most likely be in favor of raef's insurance money along with the 3 mil the blazers would surely send their way. and then during the draft, the blazers could just buy their first round pick back for another 3 mil.

 

[WWBRoyD]

There has been speculation that a big change would be coming in the form of a trade involving forward Amaré Stoudemire. Chicago, Houston and Cleveland have been considered the likely trading partners, but a deal with Portland for guard Jerryd Bayless, a first-round draft pick and Raef LaFrentz's expiring, insurance-protected contract has been considered.

Any trade also would not happen until Monday, as the NBA does not want the Suns to act during All-Star weekend in its city.

I doubt there was a "first pitch" for Amare from the Blazers.

 

[barfo]

Drew Gooden, Tyrus Thomas, Cedric Simmons for Amare Stoudemire, Louis Amundson, and Matt Barnes.

Sheds $4.02 million off Phoenix's salary numbers for this season.

Jeff Green, Saer Sene, Chris Wilcox for Amare Stoudemire, Louis Amundson, and Matt Barnes.

Sheds $4.37 million off Phoenix's salary numbers for this season.

Raef Lafrentz and Jerryd Bayless for Amare Stoudemire and Goran Dragic.

Sheds $2.05 million off Phoenix's salary.

FWIW, Goran Dragic is the highest unwanted salary that the Sun's have. The Blazers have by my count 14 players on their roster. So they could only take one extra player back from the Suns, otherwise they'd have to cut somebody. The Suns, if they begin giving more players than they give up, will have to start signing players to make up the room.

For example, the most cap friendly trade that Portland could make is Lafrentz and Bayless for Amare Stoudemire, Goran Dragic, Matt Barnes, Louis Amundson, and Jared Dudley. That trade ends up shedding $4.87 million off of Phoenix's salary. The problem? Portland would have to cut a bunch of players before making the trade...and more importantly, after Phoenix signs all the players they will have to to get back to the minimum player threshold, it will be less attractive financially than the Thunder/Bulls trades.

And getting under the luxury tax this summer is the most important thing for Phoenix in terms of saving money, as not only will they no longer be paying the tax, but they will get to collect those tax revenues.

This is one of the flaws with a lot of peopel who have been covering the trade talks. They made up this false assumption that the bigger the expiring contract the better. But instead, the Bulls/Thunder packages are better, because they just barely work. They in base use the 125% trade exception to get Amare in, and then add on the minimum salary trade exception to bring Amundson and Barnes into the trade, allowing for less incoming salary for Phoenix.

If the only goal is to collect the luxury tax, then you may have a point. However, the luxury tax payout is going to be how much? My calculations say probably no more than $4 million per team this year.

Phoenix will save more than that just in Raef's insurance payments. Additionally Paul can dump $3 million cash their way in the trade. And then there is the savings from the difference in salary this year (prorated for the partial year remaining). And finally, Raef actually expires this year; some of the players you want to foist on the Suns don't expire this year, and thus must be paid next year.

 

[Денг Гордон]

of course, you entirely disregarded alando tucker and falsely assume that matt barnes and louis amundson are guys that the suns want to trade.

and what exactly is the luxury tax set at this year? is it 71.15 mil(like wikipedia says)? espn's trade machine has the suns payroll at 75.76. so they'd have to cut 4.62 off their salary to get under the luxury tax. neither the trade with the thunder or the bulls that you propose does that. since none of those deals would get phoenix under the luxury tax anyway, if all they care about is the money, they'd most likely be in favor of raef's insurance money along with the 3 mil the blazers would surely send their way. and then during the draft, the blazers could just buy their first round pick back for another 3 mil.

I don't disregard Alando Tucker. The Portland trade can't be worked out by including Alando Tucker. So I left Tucker out, since he has the smallest contract out of expendable guys in Phoenix.

Barnes/Amundson will be afterthoughts in Phoenix. If they have to trade them to get the most financially suitable package, they will do it without blinking.

And if the Suns don't have a follow up trade with any other teams to shed that last bit of salary to get under the LT, then they can do a secondary deal that's really part of the bigger trade, of Jared Dudley for the Bulls trade exception. Even when factoring in the new player they will have to sign, the Suns will be under the luxury tax.

 

[Денг Гордон]

If the only goal is to collect the luxury tax, then you may have a point. However, the luxury tax payout is going to be how much? My calculations say probably no more than $4 million per team this year.

Phoenix will save more than that just in Raef's insurance payments. Additionally Paul can dump $3 million cash their way in the trade. And finally, Raef actually expires this year; some of the players you want to foist on the Suns don't expire this year, and thus must be paid next year.

If the Suns want to get rid of Thomasand have him no longer count against his cap...same with Green, I'm sure they could easily dispose of them for a draft pick to a team with capspace or a trade exception, if they really want to get rid of them.

 

[Денг Гордон]

If the only goal is to collect the luxury tax, then you may have a point. However, the luxury tax payout is going to be how much? My calculations say probably no more than $4 million per team this year.

Phoenix will save more than that just in Raef's insurance payments. Additionally Paul can dump $3 million cash their way in the trade. And finally, Raef actually expires this year; some of the players you want to foist on the Suns don't expire this year, and thus must be paid next year.

But if you factor in the amount less they will pay in salary, plus the amount less they pay in tax, plus the amount they receive from their tax payment, then they come out most, dealing with Chicago in the way I mentioned, with the two part trade.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

I just don't like Chicago as a trading parter for Portland. When Portland was trying to move Zach Chicago made a lot of sense as a trade partner, but not anymore. They don't have any real upgrade over comparative players on the Blazers, with the exception of the untouchable Rose.

 

[Денг Гордон]

I just don't like Chicago as a trading parter for Portland. When Portland was trying to move Zach Chicago made a lot of sense as a trade partner, but not anymore. They don't have any real upgrade over comparative players on the Blazers, with the exception of the untouchable Rose.

The upgrade comes based on the theory that the Bulls weren't able to get the most out of Hinrich, Deng, and Nocioni. That may be true. They're obviously not getting Luol Deng's full potential, but that, I think, has more to do with Deng than anything the Bulls are running. Nocioni, they aren't getting the most out of, but that's his attitude. Hinrich? He's just not that talented.

 

[barfo]

But if you factor in the amount less they will pay in salary

for this season, that's roughly the same for any of the options. For next season, this favors the blazers

, plus the amount less they pay in tax,

no more than about $1 million, if they do one of these trades and no further changes.

plus the amount they receive from their tax payment,

maybe $4 million

then they come out most, dealing with Chicago in the way I mentioned, with the two part trade.

Well, no, they don't.

It doesn't seem worth it to list it all out, but Raef saves them roughly $3 million/2 + $5 million this year, and $15 million next year. Plus they get $3 million cash. If they have to pay the tax, it would only be about $1 milllion.

Your plan saves them roughly $3 million/2 this year, and something less than $15 million next year due to the non-expiring players. If they collect the luxury tax that's another $4 million.

barfo

 

[MrJayremmie]

YOu do this trade, swing Amare withing the hour limit for a player like Harris or Granger... throw in Batum or Rudy if it helps and of course anyone they want. I think we could probably get a Harris/Granger out of this deal. You def. do this in a heartbeat.