Blazers Offer Roy Hibbert Max Contract

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BrianFromWA said:
Disagree. Rose and Durant, for instance, are multiple-time all-stars and entitled to a "Higher-than-normal-rookie-max" (TM) contract. Hibbert is not. So no, he's not in the Rose/Durant category coming off rookie contracts, but the tier below...which seems about right to me. He'd make less-than-LMA money. As a 1-time-All-Star big man about to enter his prime, it doesn't seem like a massive overpay.

And if you're worrying about signing an All-Star caliber legit C for 14+M a year, how big a brick are you shitting about Nic being offered 11-12M?
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I don't think you're disagreeing with what I said... My point is, the offer we threw at Hibbert is basically as good as those Rose/Durant/Westbrook super-studs are getting after their rookie deal, and he's nowhere near in their category in terms of impacting the game consistently. I'd be comfortable going as high as $10M/yr for Hibbert's level of production, but 50% beyond that is just silly long-term planning.

And as you guessed, I'm not a fan of paying Batum $12M per. Look at it this way, is he measurably better than any of a handful of top rookies each year that are nearing the end of their rookie deals at ~$3-5M? I would say no, so why pay him 2-3x that? I like Batum, but he's fairly replaceable. And fairly replaceable guys shouldn't get paid 20% of the salary cap. That sort of money has to be reserved for stars, not role players. Hell, give him a couple years of player options after year 2 if he really thinks he'll emerge as something significantly more than he is now.
 
Thinking outside the box here, which is always dangerous for me, but what if both agree to a S&T for each other? That would still leave with 9 million? in cap room?
 
More outside thinking. Was Cooney drafted as a chip for a potential S&T?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
You're right--it is worth pondering that Hibbert is a better rebounder, passer, shot-blocker, and overall defender than Lopez, and the Lopez' only real advantage over Hibbert is scoring.

Thanks for pointing that out.
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One is an offensive center, and the other is a defensive center. Hibbert is a little less injured
 
Mediocre Man said:
Thinking outside the box here, which is always dangerous for me, but what if both agree to a S&T for each other? That would still leave with 9 million? in cap room?
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batum for hibbert, you mean? Indy isn't going after him, why would they want that?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
You're right--it is worth pondering that Hibbert is a better rebounder, passer, shot-blocker, and overall defender than Lopez, and the Lopez' only real advantage over Hibbert is scoring.

Thanks for pointing that out.
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except that for their careers thus far brook lopez has higher per game marks in... (deep breath)....points, offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, ft percentage, shooting percentage, free throw attempts, steals, less fouls, and tied in blocks and assists, most of those likely to do with the fact he has played 10 mpg more thus far (guess you cant produce when you arent on the floor)

in fact the one and only category that brook falls to hibbert in is turnovers 2.1pg to 1.7pg

oh and a much higher PER, more win shares, and a higher ws/48

thanks for pointing out whatever you were pointing out though
 
Mediocre Man said:
One is an offensive center, and the other is a defensive center. Hibbert is a little less injured
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Well, only one of the two just basically missed an entire season due to injury.

A "little less injured"? Come on now. Hibbert has missed 3 games over the last 3 seasons, and only missed games in his rookie year because he was on the bench.
 
handiman said:
And as you guessed, I'm not a fan of paying Batum $12M per. Look at it this way, is he measurably better than any of a handful of top rookies each year that are nearing the end of their rookie deals at ~$3-5M? I would say no, so why pay him 2-3x that? I like Batum, but he's fairly replaceable.
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Because no team has a steady stream of the "handful of top rookies." If you always had top rookies on hand, then yes, Batum would be worthless once his rookie contract ended because you have a constant stream of equivalent talent. But that's like saying "If we take for granted that I'm getting a steady stream of winning lottery tickets, why would I ever pay more than $1 for any investment?" You're assuming the automatic acquisition of things that aren't automatically acquired at all.

Batum isn't replaceable because, while there are a reasonable number of players at least as good as he is in the league, most teams don't have one on a rookie contract at each position and can't expect to. No team drafts well enough to build entirely of cheap, rookie-wage players, so teams have to dip into the free agent pool for market price players to fill some holes. You can argue that Batum isn't the best use of those free agent market dollars, which is fine and a defensible view, but I can't see that "Batum is replaceable because he's not better than the top five, give or take, from any given draft class and rookies are much cheaper" is a good reason to not re-sign him.
 
3RA1N1AC said:
except that for their careers thus far brook lopez has higher per game marks in... (deep breath)....points, offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, ft percentage, shooting percentage, free throw attempts, steals, less fouls, and tied in blocks and assists, most of those likely to do with the fact he has played 10 mpg more thus far (guess you cant produce when you arent on the floor)

in fact the one and only category that brook falls to hibbert in is turnovers 2.1pg to 1.7pg

oh and a much higher PER, more win shares, and a higher ws/48

thanks for pointing out whatever you were pointing out though
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per 36 from their last full season (Lopez 2010-11)

Hibbert 15.5ppg/10.6rpg/2apg/2.5bpg

Lopez 20.8ppg/6.1rpg/1.6apg/1.5bpg

Lopez has played more minutes per game, but then again, he broke down last year and basically missed the entire season. Did New Jersey overplay him his first three years? A major injury for a big man is a big concern, IMO.
 
PapaG said:
per 36 from their last full season (Lopez 2010-11)

Hibbert 15.5ppg/10.6rpg/2apg/2.5bpg

Lopez 20.8ppg/6.1rpg/1.6apg/1.5bpg

Lopez has played more minutes per game, but then again, he broke down last year and basically missed the entire season. Did New Jersey overplay him his first three years? A major injury for a big man is a big concern, IMO.
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What was his injury again?
 
Mediocre Man said:
What was his injury again?
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Broken bone in his right foot. Second time it's happened to him. I'm guessing your question was rhetorical, though. :)

Brook Lopez spoke to reporters today for the first time since his season was officially ended April 6 because of an injury to his right foot, and the Nets' center said it was a new injury -- and not an aggravation of the original broken bone in the same foot -- that ended his season after just five games.
"It was a new one,'' said Lopez, who missed the first 32 games of the season with a break in the fifth metatarsal of his right foot, suffered in the final preseason game. "It was up higher in my ankle ... it wasn't actually the fifth metatarsal. It just happened on that play.''
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http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2012/04/brook_lopez_said_the_injury_th.html
 
PapaG said:
per 36 from their last full season
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per 36 is a slippery slope my friend...

you have to be on the floor to produce numbers in the first place, they have very different skill sets, but it is easy to see which player was more valuable\

now going forward....who knows, but dont be shocked if brook continues to put up 20 PERs
 
3RA1N1AC said:
per 36 is a slippery slope my friend...

you have to be on the floor to produce numbers in the first place, they have very different skill sets, but it is easy to see which player is more valuable
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The one who hasn't had two broken bones in his right foot over the last year would be my choice.
 
What about a ménage with Orlando and Brooklyn if Hibbert doesn't work out? Would they prefer some of our assets rather than Lopez?
 
3RA1N1AC said:
per 36 is a slippery slope my friend...

you have to be on the floor to produce numbers in the first place, they have very different skill sets, but it is easy to see which player was more valuable
Click to expand...

Playing time is indeed necessary for value, but we're trying to project what the players will do going forward, since the Blazers would be buying their futures, not their pasts. From what I could tell, Hibbert didn't play less than Lopez because he was clearly more deficient in ability (last year, at least), but because Indiana had a deep team and tried to use that depth to their advantage by rotating players a fair amount.
 
Hibbert leaning toward Portland after max offer



Free agent center Roy Hibbert is now leaning toward wanting to play with the Portland Trail Blazers next season, a day after the restricted free agent got a verbal commitment from the Blazers that they would tender a four-year, $58 million offer sheet to him, the maximum he can receive under terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, league sources confirmed Sunday.

Hibbert, acquired from Portland on Draft day in 2008, had long expressed his desire to remain in Indiana, with the team that traded for him and helped him develop into an All-Star center. But the 25-year-old was apparently blown away by the presentation made Saturday in Washington, D.C., by the Blazers’ contingent, which included Portland’s new general manager, Neil Olshey.

The Pacers would still be able to match any offer for Hibbbert when the July moratorium expires, but teams generally work out deals for players who express a specific desire to be elsewhere once they become free agents.

The Pacers are still likely to match the offer, because Hibbert has become one of the league’s top centers and his skills as a passing big man are a rare commodity in the NBA these days. But a source indicated Sunday that the organization would have to take a look at the offer before making a definitive commitment.

The team’s owner, Herb Simon, has OK’d a decision to go either way depending on what the team’s new basketball operations group, led by team president Donnie Walsh and general manager Kevin Pritchard, ultimately recommend.


http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/...ard-portland-after-max-offer/?ls=iref:nbahpt2
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Hibbert leaning toward Portland after max offer



Free agent center Roy Hibbert is now leaning toward wanting to play with the Portland Trail Blazers next season, a day after the restricted free agent got a verbal commitment from the Blazers that they would tender a four-year, $58 million offer sheet to him, the maximum he can receive under terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, league sources confirmed Sunday.

Hibbert, acquired from Portland on Draft day in 2008, had long expressed his desire to remain in Indiana, with the team that traded for him and helped him develop into an All-Star center. But the 25-year-old was apparently blown away by the presentation made Saturday in Washington, D.C., by the Blazers’ contingent, which included Portland’s new general manager, Neil Olshey.

The Pacers would still be able to match any offer for Hibbbert when the July moratorium expires, but teams generally work out deals for players who express a specific desire to be elsewhere once they become free agents.

The Pacers are still likely to match the offer, because Hibbert has become one of the league’s top centers and his skills as a passing big man are a rare commodity in the NBA these days. But a source indicated Sunday that the organization would have to take a look at the offer before making a definitive commitment.

The team’s owner, Herb Simon, has OK’d a decision to go either way depending on what the team’s new basketball operations group, led by team president Donnie Walsh and general manager Kevin Pritchard, ultimately recommend.


http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/...ard-portland-after-max-offer/?ls=iref:nbahpt2
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Yeah! Our new GM is blowing players!
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Hibbert leaning toward Portland after max offer



Free agent center Roy Hibbert is now leaning toward wanting to play with the Portland Trail Blazers next season, a day after the restricted free agent got a verbal commitment from the Blazers that they would tender a four-year, $58 million offer sheet to him, the maximum he can receive under terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, league sources confirmed Sunday.

Hibbert, acquired from Portland on Draft day in 2008, had long expressed his desire to remain in Indiana, with the team that traded for him and helped him develop into an All-Star center. But the 25-year-old was apparently blown away by the presentation made Saturday in Washington, D.C., by the Blazers’ contingent, which included Portland’s new general manager, Neil Olshey.

The Pacers would still be able to match any offer for Hibbbert when the July moratorium expires, but teams generally work out deals for players who express a specific desire to be elsewhere once they become free agents.

The Pacers are still likely to match the offer, because Hibbert has become one of the league’s top centers and his skills as a passing big man are a rare commodity in the NBA these days. But a source indicated Sunday that the organization would have to take a look at the offer before making a definitive commitment.

The team’s owner, Herb Simon, has OK’d a decision to go either way depending on what the team’s new basketball operations group, led by team president Donnie Walsh and general manager Kevin Pritchard, ultimately recommend.


http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/...ard-portland-after-max-offer/?ls=iref:nbahpt2
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Agent speak imo

Just putting more pressure on Indiana
 
PapaG said:
Dame is nice, but it's really like calling Benjamin "Ben".

Lils is what I'm sticking with for now.
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Yeah that's not gonna stick. That's ghey. Here's an idea -let's call him "Lilly". :MARIS61:
 
On another note, has anyone thought about what you'd send away in a S&T for Hibbert? If KP says "we'll match unless you pony up (X)", what would you give up? Obviously any of the Smith/Babbitt/Thomas group, but would you give up Wes? Leonard? EWill? We can't give future firsts.

We keep talking S&T for Batum to get back assets, but what about Hibbert?
 
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